Stealth
-
I've made a few attempts at stealth and sneaking characters that all have ended in utter failure. My highest stealth-skills (as per character sheet) have been 14/16, and I know this is vastly insufficient.
I know you get bonuses for standing still, size, distance, etc, but disregarding these things; how do you get your stealth high enough? What is a 'good' value for stealth skills (on sheet, not effective)?
There is skill focus and Stealthy, but even tho it contributes 5 into both, its mostly all the feats a character get, unless they're humans with fighter levels.
-
Elven boots and cloaks, and anything that can improve your dex
-
Anything above +3 to stealth skills is to my experience rare.
-
It's out there. I rarely have trouble getting stealth to 20+. Some folks find it easy to hit 25-30.
-
With Moloch on this one. At moderate levels you can get stealth skills into the twenties with items easily available in game.
-
i made a human druid who at 3rd had 25/15 or so in the wilds, without any items at all. So not too hard to do if you are willing to spend the feats to get it, alternatively find the items you need!
-
A level 8 human rogue with 18 Dexterity and no stealth feats will have 15 base stealth.
_Step 1: Purchase a +1 Dexterity item and Rogue's Pride, and alter it so that it looks sexy.
Step 2: Buy potions of Master Thievery, Cat's Grace, Camouflage and One with the Land(NPCs sell them in the module)
Step 3: Drink them, and hope for a good roll on the Cat's Grace._
Vouila, your stealth is now at 45/35. Not every JoeSchmo can spot you now, for five minutes. And now… to ensure your stealthiness:
***Stay behind walls as much as possible.
*Try and stay behind who you're stalking.
*Keep as much distance from them as possible so that they don't hear you, but still remain within earshot(Unless you're behind a thick wall/cover).
*Put as much placeable objects between you and who you're stalking, be they monsters or trees.
*Stand still as much as possible.
*Stay out of the light.
Don't worry too much about being detected if the target is in combat, so use this time to find better cover if there is one(preferably closer and behind a wall).*
And if you ever do get spotted, just throw a Darkness spell, preferably with a wand, at your opponent or yourself(preferably on your opponent though, if he's in range) and re-enter stealth to find better cover or run away.
Now, just for fun, let's see the highest possible Stealth available to a level 8 non-app character using only items available to any PC that are sold by NPCs in the module.
**Class: 8th level Ranger
Race: Halfling
Dexterity: 22+1
Feats: Stealthy, Skill Focus: Hide, Skill Focus: Move Silently
Equipment: Rogue's Pride and +1 Dexterity Bracers
Environment: Wildlands
Active buffs: Cat's Grace(Got lucky and rolled a 5), Rogue's Cunning(From Potion of Master Thievery), One with the Land, Camouflage-Final Stealth-
Hide: 59
Move Silently: 51**So yes, Stealthing like a King is expensive, of short duration and still quite unreliable, since when you leave to renew your buffs(since drinking potions or using wands breaks stealth) your target might of have already left or already dealt important information to his associate. Probably SOL if you're not a Ranger in this situation.
Moral of the story: Stick behind walls, don't get close and pray that your target isn't entirely focused on TEH WIN so that he doesn't only ever conspire behind trapped locked doors and in whispers, because if so, there's nothing you can really do(Except use Invisibility + Silence and remain in Stealth and hope he doesn't think of a reason to drink a See Invisibility Potion).
–-------------//----------------
Also, if any are curious, here are the exact modifers for Spot and Listen.
**SPOT
+10 DC if the spotter is in combat.
+5 DC if the target is standing still.
-5 DC if the spotter is standing still.
Size modifiers (tiny: +8, small: +4, medium: 0, large: -4, huge: -8).
Area spot check modifiers.
+5 DC for stealthed players (only), if they are in the back arc.
+5 DC at night if the spotter does not have a light (or darkvision).
-10 DC at night if the target has a light on them.LISTEN
+10 DC if the listener is in combat.
+5 DC if the target is standing still.
-5 DC if the listener is standing still.
+1 DC for every 3 meters between listener and target.
Size modifiers (tiny: +8, small: +4, medium: 0, large: -4, huge: -8).
+5 DC for every 40cm of object (including creatures) between listener and target in outdoor areas.
+2 DC in indoor areas if the line of sight is blocked and the target is within 4 tiles.
Area listen check modifiers.** -
Hide is more important than Move Silently, and easier to increase. A camouflage potion is 44 coins, lasts for almost an hour, and +10 hide is awesome.
Listen check has +1 DC for every 3 meters between listener and target. Which is good, if you go around the bad guys, not straight through them. -
If you don't increase Move Silently, stealthing it just gonna be more expensive. Why? Because then you'll never be able to stealth without Silence cast upon you, if you're not behind a wall.
And you're gonna have to leave that cover sooner or later, 99% of the time, and if you weren't forced to, well then, you didn't even need ranks in Stealth anyway this time.
-
You might also want to remember that a ring of light or torch or whatever will give you -10 to hide.
-
Never stealth with silence on you.
If you inadvertantly pass too close to an NPC and they get effected by the aura you are in for a world of Faction Bug Aggro Pain.
-
15+ Stealth is -super- good. I mean, geez!
That's 35 max in a roll. Even a character who's standing still with a +5 bonus would need atleast 10 points into the wisdom based skills just to match that. The bad thing about stealth checks in this game is that they are super hard to keep since opposed checks are made every round. You're bound to roll a natural 1 eventually. =(
-
@Swifty:
15+ Stealth is -super- good. I mean, geez!
That's 35 max in a roll. Even a character who's standing still with a +5 bonus would need atleast 10 points into the wisdom based skills just to match that. The bad thing about stealth checks in this game is that they are super hard to keep since opposed checks are made every round. You're bound to roll a natural 1 eventually. =(
Only the spotter/listener rolls. The DC he rolls against will always be your hide/move silently, plus or minus modifiers from those variables I mentioned.
-
And keep in mind, this is PvP Stealth.
Steal in PvM doesn't need to be nearly as high to be extremely useful.
-
And keep in mind, this is PvP Stealth.
Steal in PvM doesn't need to be nearly as high to be extremely useful.
Indeed!
-
Yeah, I've been sneaking through the western Helmlands unseen with 10/10. :P
-
Personaly I feel stealth is sometimes underated and people don't realise how dam easy its to get usefull levels of it.
Stealth nearly always give you the first strike, it also protects you against sneak attacks and unexpected spawns.
So basicly the only people who should never bother with it are those in fullplate and then even then there was Oliver Baba the purple dragon ranger who creeped about in plate way back in V3! :shock:
The first baseline you should aim for is hide 10 MS 10 on your character. This is all you need to get that fireball off unnoticed till its too late or avoid monster attacks you didn't see coming.
Lets assume your Joe average mage.
Dex 14 +2
Rogues pride +3Cheep kit and no skills and you already half way there
Cross class +2 at 1 and +1 every odd level
By level 7 and for 20 skill point Joe now has a Hide and MS of 10 and this is assuming he didn't have any feats, a higher dex, better gear or racal bonuses.
Theres items out there that give you +6 hide out there if you look hard enought and plenty of ways to get camoflarge spell, even long lasting forms.
I don't think I need to explain how quickly your stealth can start climbing if you take more serous steps towards geting it high. Halflings especialy can get to PVP compective levels without it being a class skill.
Now if your playing any class were it is a class skill, life becomes easier, medium armour sneaking plusable and even heavy armour stealth if you push hard enought.
-
Find someone to coach you IG! Make it fun rather than just reading a forum!
-
Find someone to coach you IG! Make it fun rather than just reasing a forum!
-
Unfortunately, these are not exactly things that can really be tested through trial and error with a tremendous deal of effort. Of course learning it all ICly is a lot better, but to teach such things, you need to know the OOC workings of it.