Coa is not pw story/rp anymore. Its pw action/story lite.
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In my opinion, I think it's just that we've had an influx of new players recently (which is a good thing) who find the server to be more fun when they just "crush shit" rather than devote time to plots. I can certainly see why Ordinath and Savn might think that way (I've wondered about the same thing myself from time to time), but the only conclusion I could come up with is that people have different interests: while I, and a lot of other CoAers, might find the server to be at its best when a story is crafted, some people might just want to quest and have a bit of fun with limited time.
Of note, however, is that many new people to the server don't know -how- to get involved in plots, don't even know plots -exist-, or may feel too intimidated to approach them at all. Given time, I've observed that new people who stay on the server long enough and get to know it better slowly begin to gravitate towards the "Adventure & Intrigue" + "RP-based" playing style.
Time will tell.
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I havn't noticed any of these differences, I mean, I've had a few terrible interactions with new players, but this is because they are new.
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The "run around and crush stuff" mentality isn't a quest specific one, it's very easily applicable to plots too, and an easy trap to fall into (been down that road myself).
You can certainly blast around acquiring info, dropping it off, chasing down obscure artifacts of doom, and playing politics in the same obsessive fashion as "power" questing, and completely neglect your characters own personality, background, and motivations.
And this usually leads to
that there is much less of players going and doing thier own thing and much more just waiting for a DM to come along and do things for you.
as Cake put it.
I'm in fair agreement with ordinath's post, in that most of the time ingame, it seems that everyone's off chasing something or other, and characterization and personal goals has taken a severe backseat to DM-plot endorsed adventure and intrigue, from a combination of factors.
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I've noticed a lot more elitism lately myself. Fewer people willing to actually lend a hand and help guide new players, or players who want to fit into that PW Story category but aren't quite sure how to do so. They tend to get turned off by the "in my day, it was better" crowd of 'elite' roleplayers. Most of whom, I never found that enthralling anyway.
The OP's complaint is really one of perception and taste, and I've got to say that I think the server's more or less dead on as it always has been. What may have changed for the OP is that most those he's use to playing with aren't around as much and he doesn't know the new crowd and just judges them much more harshly than necessary.
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@Vruraol:
I would argue that the server's focus has indeed changed to A&I, but that in no way detracts from RP.
I believe what Ordinath and Savn are trying to say (with better words than mine) is that sometimes, expecially for people with a limited amount of time, A&I can detract from RP. I myself am guilty of that, cutting short sessions of RP cause a person I need to speak to to further a plot just logged in. I know at least one great roleplayer who stopped playing a fairly successful character cause he felt that character was just a "plot pusher". He had made it to be able to push a lot of plots, but as a result felt it had not depth, and since he was using his time to generate A&I, he had little time to explore his story. I know what you are thinking now, i.e. "A&I help giving depth to your character", but we are "discussing" here is exactly that. As much as half of the people are able to rp while furthering A&I, there is another half who forgets it in order to be able to push the plots faster, and more efficienctly. How many times has it happened to have a meeting with someone about a plot that comes down just to a quick talk about the plot with nothing else involved and then "goodbye, let us move to the next meeting cause we are in a hury". I had a fairly spiced discussion with another player a few weeks ago, claiming iirc that in plots, as in pvp, you must be brutal. Be as quick as you can, don't give the other side time to reply, and that is the receipe for success, for efficiency. It can take a month to create, live, and end a plot while roleplaying the whole way, or it can take half that time with some more "light" roleplay. (Before the flame begins, I am not saying that specific player is behaving like that. He's a good rper, just using what happened as an example). The second option in the sake of conflict, both pvp and pvm, is more efficient. So I have the feeling, like Ordinath and Savn, that many people are running from a plot to another to create A&I, but leaving rp as light as possible, so they can more efficiently pursue their goals. And I must admit I am the first one guilty of such attitude, cutting short rp, or just keeping it to the minimum standard level, cause otherwise I had no time to meet all the people necessary to finish the plot as quickly as possible.
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I really don't have a clue on whats going on IG…
But logging on to a myrad of characters trying to reach lvl 10 is pretty fun.
A change of playstyle helps if something gets stale to you...
Its all in fun, if you don't like it well...
Thats life.
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I'm having fun. Never knew the server really in this V3 people talk about, I was playing then, but I was pretty new.
I think it might be prudent to accept people's play styles, the fact that some people enjoy the game in different ways to others, and go with the flow…..bro..
Cos really, it's just a game.
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Experienced players should trick the newer or less rp orientated into roleplaying via bribes of loot and gold. Then the experienced player should rp at them excessively untill the new player rps back, becomes awesome, and continues the cycle.
Loot/Gold + Clueless Noob + Time Invested = Awesome!
It worked for me. Hell my first character was an Elf named Mirage Nightstalker ffs.
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Cunningstunt is correct to the extreme. I just wish I had more gold+loot to put into the equation.
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Just an idea, maybe people already do it, but perhaps if you happen to come across a new player and are planning to show them around, or RP with them or whatever, send a tell on the DM channel. Perhaps if a DM drops by it'll be easier to keep them hooked and make them think more about their roleplaying, instead of just getting to the next level.
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For me there is a bit too much going on, happening too fast and coming to a closure too soon. Take the Searing Part 2, the acidic werewolf pack or however you want to call it. Barely 2 weeks old, perhaps 3 and already a goner - it seems. Although traveling the wilds quite a bit, didn't run across them a single time which makes me feel rather "lightly" about such plots.
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In my experience the server has all in all imrpoved, some changes I like , some I hate, its the way it goes. One thing I do not like is how fast paced it has become, I really have no time or energy to follow everything. -But- this means every player can focus on one plot and see it evolve and close relatively fast, which is rewarding, that is if he has the time to follow it. Thing is you may have followed a plot closely, miss a few days, and miss the end which is bothersome. There are still plots slow enough though to follow.
All in all the server has gone from a slow paced one to a mixture of slow paced and fast paced plots which serves more different tastes, which is more important as NWN player bases reduces in numbers.
Also I consider DMs now more approachable too, but this may be really a misconception since as most players here grew older and matured with the game, may now have more sense of how DMs are actually people who want to help you to have fun, especially if you can provide fun for a wide part of the playerbase with your actions.
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Well i hardly have any play time on CoA anymore but i do tend to agree with ord.When i can get on and it's not very often i do get the feeling there is somthing missing from the server.Maybe it's the lack of merchants in the market or a couple of characters just talking on a corner about how there day was(yes it is boring to do compared to that dm quest with tons of loot)but all that added depth and made the server come alive.
Not saying the direction the server has gone in is wrong…but i no longer enjoy playing on it as much as i did,thats maybe down to me or to the fact the server has lost that depth of character that made it speacil and stand out from the rest.When i was writing this i had a thought and think i know what is missing.
CoA has always had a good selection of playing styles eg.Questers
,plotters and sims.
Basicly what has happened is that the questors and plotters got praised by DM's for what they did and serveral dm's have stated that sims type play they didn't like.The net result is that those players that play characters first and quest/plotter second have either left or had to change there play style.
This is why the server is less character driven and now more DM event/plot driven,that said this is what players and dm's wanted to happen so it's the way things are.
For those that think im wrong just one question when was the last time you went into a tavern in arabel and heard a bard sing?
By sing i mean with words not just clicking on bard song. -
For me there is a bit too much going on, happening too fast and coming to a closure too soon. Take the Searing Part 2, the acidic werewolf pack or however you want to call it. Barely 2 weeks old, perhaps 3 and already a goner - it seems. Although traveling the wilds quite a bit, didn't run across them a single time which makes me feel rather "lightly" about such plots.
That plot is far from over.
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They tend to get turned off by the "in my day, it was better" crowd of 'elite' roleplayers. Most of whom, I never found that enthralling anyway.
Implying that people who expect a higher level of RP and depth to their interactions are somehow snobs isn't exactly constructive. It's these kind of combative attitudes and remarks that lead to many older players leaving. Not to mention a few DM's.
Many of the posters in this thread seem to understand what I'm talking about, and, like Foba, I've been guilty of streamlining my interactions to acheive the A&I in an efficient time frame, which in the end only lead to a cheapening of what we actually managed to accomplish. To quote the old line, one that seems to have completely vanished in the past two years:
Coa isn't about the goal. It's about enjoying the journey.
The OP's complaint is really one of perception and taste, and I've got to say that I think the server's more or less dead on as it always has been. What may have changed for the OP is that most those he's use to playing with aren't around as much and he doesn't know the new crowd and just judges them much more harshly than necessary
I do feel this is worth considering.
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They tend to get turned off by the "in my day, it was better" crowd of 'elite' roleplayers. Most of whom, I never found that enthralling anyway.
Implying that people who expect a higher level of RP and depth to their interactions are somehow snobs isn't exactly constructive. It's these kind of combative attitudes and remarks that lead to many older players leaving. Not to mention a few DM's.
It's hardly combative. If you look at the language, the tendency is actually clear.
You "expect" a "higher level of RP and depth to their interactions" and completely indicate that the new players on the server don't meet your expectations and thus the server is going down hill.
What I'm saying is, again not combative, merely making the point that if this is indeed a problem–and I tend to think it is a cyclical one and can likely look back and find roughly one thread on this subject every year or so--then the solution has always been for the players who are more experienced at roleplaying to help guide the players who are a little less experienced at it.
If instead, all they do is quit or complain, then yes-that is elitist. Yet this is not a combative statement, at least, no more so than saying that many of the players on the server today don't live up to your standards of roleplaying excellency.
If you want to bring up a discussion about what's wrong with the server, then that is fine, but you can't focus on that discussion on the one area you feel is lacking and ignore equally valid points that come with possible suggestions to your problem.
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I fully agree with Ordinath, Savn and Foba 83 but I think the old ways are still feasible to follow on CoA. This "less-RP-more-plot" attitude is the result of several highly ambitious and driven players bulldozing their goals and forcing others either to keep pace and increase their commitment (at the likely expense of RP and immersion) or fall out of the loop.
This is because of the widely held belief that DM support and rewards come after involving other players in the plots and pursuing your goals as well as possible. Players will always hope for DM support and play to earn it, regardless of the DMs legitimately wanting it to be otherwise. However, I can safely tell based on my experience that the DM/NPC support one gets is completely independent of the number of players you engage and the plots you further - to simply put it, I never felt engaging others would yield any reward beyond your own personal satisfaction from it, and I think everyone should come to terms with it (you simply cannot change the DMs subjectively liking some players/characters/styles over another, it is human; they can also be in a different timezone than the players they would like to support).
Thus, this situation Ordinath is describing comes entirely from the players' own developed attitudes and false expectations. If the players understood that higher number of players the involve and plots they drive does not equate higher amount of DM support and rewards, they would not be so disruptive in their goal achievement and would allow the server develop in a more relaxed atmosphere, allowing more fun for both new and old players and the DMs, and allow more space for good old roleplay.
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I think I agree with part of what Eraamion is saying…but I would point out that DM's do reward people involving others in plots. Even if by nothing more than roleplaying entire scenes for them, when normally we'd not involve NPCs or even half the NPCs on the server for one simple scene that could have been handled by any PC.
The main reward of pushing plots forward is that you leave a lasting impact on the server with your character. However, that's how we've always done things on CoA. The DMs haven't changed what or how we reward people really, but we have made it clearer what we want to reward. If this has created the false impression we don't want people roleplaying and developing their characters in interesting ways-then that is just erroneous.
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_Not sure what an elitist player is, I have always found a very good level of RP within the server with the occasional disappointing session (DM and Player side, but nothing that can be solved with a quick chat).
We all want to have fun, we know it's not a "job" being a DM or a player on CoA but I think this thread is constructive, I too am losing the grip on the depth of some of my characters so, definitely, something has happened (either to me or to the server).
A few points I feel accelerated the spin towards the "quest grinding"/"smashing attitude" rather than the more immersive RP/exploration session:
1. it's easier to get to higher level than it was a few months ago: therefore people tend to try and reach such level. There are many more "spaced" quests (lvl range) and -my opinion- the creation of a well honed group to quest with is not anymore as necessary as it was in the old V3 or early V4 days. in order to reach lvl 7 or 8 (after all is easier to roam the wilderness with a 9 lvl druid than with a 4th lvl one).2. there's a lot more loot available from many shops(and many quests!): this has, to me, two effects: a. diminishes the necessity for PC merchants (now magical weapons, wands, higher range of potions can be bought etc) and b. incresases the importance of gold –> more quest grinding.
Moreover, usually, exploration and RP session involve a use of consumables with no appreciable return in gold or xp unless it's a DM quest.3. the opportunity to be able to change the server: many concepts can be created with the aim to change something (i.e. short term concept). Characters tend to be constructed more into a "step-by-step" personality rather than an evolving one due to the fact that an application has been written for that character and their character will be measured for what she can achieve ig on the basis of their application (but this is my biased view only, since I am no DM and my knowledge is quite scarce)
4. many new factions popping up from nowhere: I already wrote this up somewhere in the past but apparently this is what Playerbase+DM want so I won't push it more. To me new factions coming to life and existing dying after a brief lifespan tend to generate "pale" characters.
5. absence of a strong hierarchy "within the walls": who's in charge? where are the key figures of the city? why things change so quickly? If you don't have enough time to play, the constant changes will make the creation of a "long-term" character quite difficult (again, my opinion).
Disclaimer: those are my opinions based on the limited amount of time I spend playing._
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Actually, apart from perhaps point one, I like the other changes mentioned.