Motivation Killers
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We can just login to hand off rewards, that is no big deal. Just stick your event in player plots and let us know what you did.
Yeah but it would help with the people who aren't on usual DM times or when there is the inevitable DM/Player Shuffle (1 logs in, other logs out)
I'd be interested to see player responses that that question too, Drip/Zav.
One of the best pieces of advice I can give to help reign people back in and keep a solid player base is remembering, this isn't just a game. If you want to play it for the mechanics and like-wise, there is single player, or a few other servers that aren't Roleplay based. As much as this is an A&I driven server, it's the Roleplay that ties it all together. People have been doing things for the purpose of mechanical power rather then Character development. People specifically build around loot that is in the server, rather then giving their characters a weakness that can be off balanced by some good old fashioned DM custom loot.
Other then that, it's just to remember that it's ultimately the characters decision, not the player. I know that sounds really weird, but when you give in almost completely to the character you open up a lot more to interesting and fun gameplay. Even if it is just sitting around a table having a debate over theological beliefs.
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I saw a really nifty script on NWNvault awhile back ago which essentially gave monster NPCs a life of their own and would have them build lairs out in the world. If left un checked they would expand and create more lairs. Something like this would incentivize adventuring and make the world feel more alive.
I looked at this (spent a few days figuring some things out about how to implement it before even suggesting it to the team). It's not 'A Script' it's a whole series of inter linked scripts which really, you shuld probly use when building your module from the start, trying to ad this in would seriously be a killer job, and would essentially removing the CARES system we have (which would be a tonne of work in itself)
It's do-able, (if we wanted to do it) but…. really, a lot of work.
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@latoksinned:
This is what I'm talking about… Propagating the US vs THEM mentality. The DM's acting like the mysterious overlords and the players are just inferior children who need to be tended to like they are always going to do the wrong thing. I've had DMless plots as my main focus before on characters and it created tons of fun, exploration and role play. Always assuming the worst in players and using us for your little experiments and tests is only going to create more negativity. You want to have a sever that doesn't have as much negativity? Start acting like human beings instead of thinking you are some kind of benevolent gods ruling over us! You were all players before and somewhere along the way forgot what it is like to be one of us and started acting like we were lesser beings.
I'm really not.
I'm actually recounting an exact sequence of events which has happened more than once regarding explicitly telling everyone that X plot also has a DMless solution.
I'm talking openly about direct experiences.
Of course we will try new ways of doing things if things don't work out, in fact, I've often tried new ways of doing things based on the responses of players after something didn't work out, it's not using people as experiments, it's trying to make things better based on what people tell me.
If I didn't do that, then I'd be ignoring peoples concerns and ideas.
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I'll DM for you if you want.
All I need is lessons on the DM client, scripting, and how to behave.
Actually I might just roll a new character? It's been a while!
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Oh
Stunning CuCunning Stunt, how I missed you.Shamelessly off-topic
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I saw a really nifty script on NWNvault awhile back ago which essentially gave monster NPCs a life of their own and would have them build lairs out in the world. If left un checked they would expand and create more lairs. Something like this would incentivize adventuring and make the world feel more alive.
If I am not mistaken you are referring to Penitence's biosphere system. It was a neat idea but at the end only made that project's team to think DM involvement isnt needed. What was then a neat thing became its undoing.
Additionally you cant just plug and play with the system. You have to build your entire module and scripts around it.
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If CoA is trying to become a sandbox than I think it should fully embrace the concept instead of going half way. This means for instance making it easier to aquire political leadership on the server; CoA still has a lot of NPCs in the way of things when it comes to making political decisions so perhaps we could start by getting rid of some of them and have one head NPC and the rest are PC councilors whose job it is to advance the interests of their respective faction. Cut the red tape and give the reins more or less to the players. NPCs have always been a percieved problem because they give the impression that players need a DMs approval for everything and despite efforts to communicate this is not the case I think the abundance of NPCs in leadership positions is a problem because they still techinically hold the power. So removing a lot of the powerful NPCs from politics and giving players that chance should they want it would be really helpful
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WildCard, I believe what you mentioned is the exact intention of the Plebian Court and Citadel Council DM factions. However, this power needs to be at least somewhat earned.
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WildCard, I believe what you mentioned is the exact intention of the Plebian Court and Citadel Council DM factions. However, this power needs to be at least somewhat earned.
There was a vailiant attempt at this, however, the NPC's still tend to control and put down ideas. I agree still with Wildcard that the Council, at least (Never been part of the Plebian Court), has propagated the need for DM approval to make any decisions. Most decisions I've seen made are over-ruled by an NPC and things are still handled the way the DM's want them handled rather than empowering the players. It is a good idea, and a step forward, but as of right now it is still an idea rather than in practice.
Edit: Also the initial push for Player factions to lead things instead of DM factions has been swept away. This was an amazing thing that had so much potential and did many amazing things and it almost seems like support just dropped. DM's have so far even discouraged seperate player factions IG in favor of getting said people to give up and join the DM factions. Another minor annoyance that made me lose motivation in my latest character. "If you aren't in the councilors, you're alone and a coward" <- Actual IG response from an NPC
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@latoksinned:
DM's have so far even discouraged seperate player factions IG in favor of getting said people to give up and join the DM factions. Another minor annoyance that made me lose motivation in my latest character. "If you aren't in the councilors, you're alone and a coward" <- Actual IG response from an NPC
Okay, now I gotta weigh in: Not all player factions are toast. One player faction, just before the holidays swooped down on us like an drunken albatross, got a massive dose of DM attention and a spiffy new plot hook. Don't feel bad or jealous: there was no gold, no potions, no goodie bags handed out at the end. There had been many trips to the Fugue. My own PC ground back down to level three at one point. If this sounds unappealing, you would've had a horrible, frustrating time. At the end, all we got was story. A big plush pile of story, ready to stretch and mould into basically any direction the player faction feels like. This appeals to me, so I felt like I'd won the lotto.
At the end of that attention, the four PCs who were in the party as adventurers were invited, and accepted, membership in said player faction. Why? Because they'd been good comrades throughout the ordeal. Whenever members of this player faction find "good comrades," they're actively screened, interacted with, and usually recruited. In fact, ICly, I'm still looking for YOU.
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Duplicate post
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Yeah, player factions. The Wardens of the Second Sun are STILL around and still a going concern. Three distinct leadership styles have shaped the group and allowed it to grow beyond what the original scope was. It is still a going concern in spite of having it's home ripped out from under them by the DM plot. It is still going concern because of its core desire to see a better Arabel, one Arabel, and to not be beholden to any corrupt agency within Arabel.
I also think there is a secret mindset for the core members, which is basically, "throw what you want our way, as long as one of us survives, the Wardens of the Second Sun will still shine brighter than any light you can imagine."
We haven't had a power build since Tafari passed on, and so have not been very big on PvP heavy plots. We still have the best record of what has happened on the server since the day of the Red Scarves forward.
I personally see the DM factions as a great way of brewing conflict between players from different player factions.
the Player factions in general are "WE are team _______" with little room for doubt. The DM factions are less about Team any thing and more about promoting oneself within the faction.I generally play for Team Good, its my comfort zone. so, even when Im not planning on joining the Wardens, it happens.
Caylee was an Alt who got picked up by the Silver watch and just kinda got swept up in Rookes story, and helped found the Wardens. Will had no place better suited for him to join. Mac, right place right time, and so is in the Wardens.I guess, If you want your player faction to work, look for one that -is- working and join it. No need to reinvent the wheel. The Wardens survived at least one attempt to be taken over by another goodly faction, or over run by it. And will be going strong until something wipes us all out.
I either ned more sleep or more caffeine, sorry for the rant that may not even be on topic.
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I would be more impressed with the Second Suns if their membership was not so static. Has there been any change in membership? I for one would like to join them, but my PC has no idea they even EXIST, and I have been playing this current PC for almost 2 weeks now.
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Ive just joined them for the first time with Leon (Though im not into the forums yet), and when i was in the Silent Wardens, i was aware of a the Wardens of the Second Sun were up to. But the Silent Wardens and Wardens of the Second Sun have always been active PC factions imo, though recruitment drives (That in my experience, extends mainly to El inviting people) could be good. Many of the Second Suns are in the council, and can easily see the goodly characters from the way they interact in the files, so that may be a good starting ground to find members? Ive always found PC factions to be a lot more fun than DM factions, purely because it is more in your hands to mold and focus, its also (usually) a smaller group, so inner conflict and resolution is a lot more personal.
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I have never been a fan of fd pvp
I seem to be running into more dicks in game lately and being set to hostile a lot and chased out of areas, where I know if I am caught that would be it
I do miss the ability to make gold as five stars afforded in the past, as this was a way I could gain resources to aid new players/characters as I had in the past, I on e even had a dm thank me when I was seen doing this once in the past
The chance for me to aid new players is well past as new players are rare
Helping new characters? Not likely now, I do not really know where everything is and when I am chased from certain areas, I am not going to drag new chRacters to their deaths at the hands of some pvp player, rules may say a dm needs to be present, but I am not going to stop and push that rule to some character who can easily kill my character in the time it takes me to type stop
Will things go back to what I like? No
Do I expect it to? No
Do I expect to get berated? PossiblyWill I keep playing? Sure. But my time on will be shorter
I come on, do what I can which no longer involves helping others as I am no longer in a position to do so, a daily quest where I could get gold to cover the inn costs would be nice
My suggestion? Make a five star type quest
How will this benefit the server?
It will give people like me more resources which I have proven in the past I will use to aid new charactersIt is a win win situation. How?
Well it gives me more to do, which involves helping others, how can that hurt?
The new characters and their veteran players feel better as they either feel they made a generous friend or some dupe to take advantage of
And who knows, maybe I will find a new player or two
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@Darlene:
I have never been a fan of fd pvp
I seem to be running into more dicks in game lately and being set to hostile a lot and chased out of areas, where I know if I am caught that would be it
I do miss the ability to make gold as five stars afforded in the past, as this was a way I could gain resources to aid new players/characters as I had in the past, I on e even had a dm thank me when I was seen doing this once in the past
The chance for me to aid new players is well past as new players are rare
Helping new characters? Not likely now, I do not really know where everything is and when I am chased from certain areas, I am not going to drag new chRacters to their deaths at the hands of some pvp player, rules may say a dm needs to be present, but I am not going to stop and push that rule to some character who can easily kill my character in the time it takes me to type stop
Having been on the receiving end of this several times in the past when I was very new, I can say that opportunities to help Darlene help people should be taken whenever possible.
My suggestion? Make a five star type quest
As I understand it, this is either in, or going in very soon.
@Darlene:Do I expect to get berated? Possibly
Anyone caught berating Darlene will be shunned without mercy.
WITHOUT MERCY.
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Edit: Also the initial push for Player factions to lead things instead of DM factions has been swept away. This was an amazing thing that had so much potential
Yes, it had amazing potential, and several DMs at the time pushed for this to happen (I was one of the main ones pushing this, which is why I made the claimable bases for player factions, and many other systems to allow player groups to work like DM factions), it happened, and then, a couple of months later, players complained there were no DM factions, that they wanted to be guided more, that nothing was happening, Then we made new factions. And it was predicted this exact post would occur.
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In fact, if we get rid of the DM faction tomorrow–many of the same players in this thread complaining it is too static and player factions don't get enough support will complain that there isn't enough DM faction and plot direction.
Same players, always make the same complaints (on both ends of the spectrum).
The real question is not what is wrong with CoA and what does the DM team need to fix, or what do the players need to fix--it is really "what are you the person with the complaint going to do to fix your problem because venting on the forums isn't actually going to solve the issues you personally have".
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Perhaps it is the players that are too static, thus neither them being in any type of faction would help as they were being too reliant on DMed attention.
An example of a ridiculous plot that required DM and PC attention: Making a FANCY SHAPED ROCK into a knightly order. Please, you can all do better than this for ideas.
We also have the charity chest for handouts for new players and DMs sometimes keep track of the somewhat financially troubled. I don't think a Fivestar is needed, as it is simply exploited to be farmed. A lowbie quest that pays a sum for committing a crime within the Citadel, such as banditry/thuggery against different NPC merchants against marked Brown NPCs that could result in them becoming caught by Citadel PCs, might be a little less static. (Also it should teach people how to NPC subduel.)
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I simply made a suggestion, one that I wrongly and selfishly thought might help the server, i have hinted at this a couple times but have not made a plea as i have now, help me and i will help the server kind of thing, that was indeed selfish and i apologize for hinting at it, it was rather self serving when i look back on the post now.
but the charity chest does not provide enough for me to even consider aiding new characters, it provides only enough to provide a nights rest at the inn at random intervals, sometimes not at all. sometimes several rests.
i do not do a lot of quests, as many times there are not enough players on when i am on, also there is the time issue, sometimes when i have lots of time, there is no one on, or the ones on have no interest in having anything to do with my character (seriously, would i even want to hang around with a evil character who just chased me out of the old town with malice intent?)
the one thing i do see, is a spiral where i spend less and less time on the server when i do manage to find time to log in