Where is our Character vs. Character direction going?
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Actually… No... These items aren't quest items at all.
This has nothing to do with people getting high level and questing. As I've said before, people will play the game they want to play it (within the rules) and that is fine.
Accepting other players styles of play will leave you feeling far less bitter.
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@Amy:
Yeah I have never seen other players outside the already mechanically competant with these items.
I can honestly say i haven't met to many of these incompetent players that some keep harping on about,the items drop on high level quests those that spam said quests each reset get them.
It's really that simple nothing to do with who knows mechanics,players spam quests constantly to get certain rewards and only stop spamming them when the item(s) they are farming the quest for appears.Change these scripted farm-able rewards to something else or just gold and that fixes the problem of the items.
Also +2 used to be the server standard back in V3 as you could make +2 weapons and gear but it was massively expensive and required level 12 characters to make +2 isn't new,just alot easier to get it now.Nobody has called anyone incompetent, but it's unrealistic to try and pretend there aren't different levels of skill in play when it comes to mechanics..
Actually… No... These items aren't quest items at all.
This has nothing to do with people getting high level and questing. As I've said before, people will play the game they want to play it (within the rules) and that is fine.
Accepting other players styles of play will leave you feeling far less bitter.
And what Dobby said, none of the items in questions drop on quests.
It's things like… my mage had 7 single uses of CL 13 Finger of Death. And another 5 uses of Flesh to Stone. And those weren't even his scariest widgets. 0 came from quests.
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*waves from the mechanically incompetent bleachers *
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@Dedagin:
*waves from the mechanically incompetent bleachers *
Pats his shoulder sympathetically from her well-deserved spot in that section
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@Dedagin:
*waves from the mechanically incompetent bleachers *
Pats his shoulder sympathetically from her well-deserved spot in that section
This post is actually for you guys to even the playing field a little in that aspect.
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@Dedagin:
*waves from the mechanically incompetent bleachers *
Pats his shoulder sympathetically from her well-deserved spot in that section
This post is actually for you guys to even the playing field a little in that aspect.
We're just affirming our place in the "different levels of skill." :P
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Pats his shoulder sympathetically from her well-deserved spot in that section
This post is actually for you guys to even the playing field a little in that aspect.
We're just affirming our place in the "different levels of skill." :P
Affirming and owning it :-)
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Honestly, the biggest thing I noticed is not that people are PvPing too much, it's that people are literally going out of their way to avoid interacting with the sole excuse of "I don't like PvP."
Honestly, PvP isn't just mechanics. PvP could just be you getting into a pissing match over who's god is better in the spire. If you don't want it to escalate to that level, play an Agnostic Sell-Sword who doesn't speak. That way, no one really has a reason to bug you. You're not going to have any fun, but you won't have to deal with conflict.
Cheers!
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But you speak from the position of someone who can win a physical PvP. I am fine with verbal sparring (if people can put up with my slow typing), but I'm mechanically terrible at PvP combat so I avoid engaging in it. I know there is the whole "you won't get better unless you try" thing, but I don't want my character to just get beaten up and/or killed over and over until I get better at PvP combat against people who will always still have an edge of more experience.
I let myself get into PvP anyway occasionally because other people enjoy it and the chance to strike at my character can up the tension between factions, but I'm bad at it and don't enjoy myself. I don't want to spend the time I've allotted for fun being unhappy.
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I'm not trying to be rude to Drip, but he'll admit he's not much for PvP. drip rarely ever initiates it but he always rolls so well with the punches IC. IT's always awesome when a player doesn't forget who they're roleplaying, especially when beat down.
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But you speak from the position of someone who can win a physical PvP.
Let me stop you right then and there. No. I don't. I am talking from the position of someone who is absolutely SHITE at PvP.
To show you how much you can accomplish while still getting your butt stomped, I reflect back to Tobias.
Tobias started off, PvPing on his 3rd day against Unfie's "Rufus the Murder-Gnome." I actually got my butt handed to me about 3-4 times just 1v1ing him.
Then, Cicero came around. My first conflict with Cicero, was me approaching them with a large group of people from Team Good (Read: "We don't PvP.") and ended up getting my butt whooped, because one of Team Good got antsy. Then Cicero kicked Tobias' butt at least 2-3 more times after that.
The saga of Cicero ended, and along comes Damien Drake. Surprisingly, Drake and Tobias got on wonderfully… Drake beat Tobias up about 8-9 times, including coming close to ripping him apart in the basement of Shylocks.
Then Horgar shows up with his Smug little Duergar face. Kicked my butt about 4-5 times.
After Drake died, Tobias was a bit short on his "Save a Monster's soul" quota, so when the Thayan Mage with his Dragonborn slave shows up, of course I tried to turn the Dragonborn against the mage... And was subsequently beat down... Repeatedly.
When Tobias met his fateful end (Which came at the hands of someone generally on Team Good's side.) I was about 2 weeks away from possibly securing an NPC retirement as a potential replacement for the Citizen. On top of that little tid-bit, He managed to become a Knight of the Citadel, betray them, anointed himself as Judge of Old Town, get recruited by the Plebian Court for it, rise to Duke among the ranks of Old Town, Told the Citizen TO HIS FACE he was going to kill him, and ended up helping 2 PC's get their foot in the door to become Dukes of Old Town, one of which is currently kicking SERIOUS ass on the Eveningstar plot.
I won a grand total of 0 PvP encounters, unless you count the few times he got into fist fights with Cormac MacNulty and Frado Fireskull, both of whom almost won.
Mechanical power has absolutely nothing to do with what you can accomplish as on a character. Yeah, it sucks to get beat down, I get it. Ta-Da! Welcome to the game!
Honestly, if people stopped complaining so much about people being good at PvP, they would realize that the people who are getting accused of this (And I do mean Accused... You guys sound like pompous gits whenever you accuse them of it) are not out to just PvP you because they can, but they are actively trying to tell the damn stories they are using their time to create FOR YOU GUYS!
Playing Evil is not fun when you just win, trust me, I know. Evil is only fun when you have conflict. Honestly though, people don't really provide conflict unless someone is giving you a reason to (Beating people up, robbing them, foiling their plans) conflict with those characters more then slanderous sendings and the occasional Bounty.
If you are actually, physically, OOCly, unhappy, in RL, that your character got beat down, I hate to say it... You're a sore loser. Especially since almost every person I hear regularly ranting about people "PvPing too much" is a Sore winner as well.
People aren't PvPing too much in my opinion, other people are just not doing enough to fill the void of time between the times people have to rely on PvP. Literally, people stand in the spire for DAYS and get mad because when they finally leave the Citadel someone goes "Holy shit! Finally I can cause conflict with this guy!"
Of course, then you say "Not all conflict has to involve Mechanical PvP." You're right... It doesn't. But when everyone on team good keeps their plots and secrets under lock and key (Read: Keeping it strictly on their private forums.) how else are we supposed to cause conflict? Not every character is going to grab a random NPC and kill them to get attention.
If you aren't giving them enough shit to work with that they can occupy their time, they honestly HAVE to rely on PvP. Let some secrets out. "Accidently" tell the wrong people about your plot hook. You'll find you are running into people more on the way to botch your plots up then just running into people who want to beat you up in Old Town.
Tl;Dr
Go out and do something with your character and quit complaining. -
Zaviron has offered many, many times to open up an Arena server to teach people how to PvP, so has SpiffyHas. Nobody has ever taken them up on it as far as I know.
I seriously recommend taking them up on that sort of stuff, if you don't want to get your PC beaten up over and over until you learn, make an expendable throwaway and LEARN TO PVP FROM THE GUYS THAT ARE GOOD ON A TEMPORARY SERVER.
And if you don't want to do that, then you haven't taken any outs and I don't think you should get to complain about not being good at PvP. -
I'd totally be down for that.
Alternatively, it would be cool to find someone to train you IG.
I remember Seter gathering peeps for sparring sessions in Maleen's Tower while we were all apprentices there. Big props to the cat-person although he wasn't even so great at PvP to begin with. :P -
There is a lot you can learn from others IG, which is really helpful and I definitely found that useful personally as a player. Maybe rather than another server, people could look into a concept of training other PCs. It would make it less scary to go outside CoA to learn it, and also it would create a fun IG experience. :)
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I don't know why it would be scary to go into a temporarily hosted server to learn how to PvP, but I guess learning it IG would be pursueable by someone who wished to.
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I definitely like the idea of a pvp training server hosted by someone who wants to teach. While learning IG has been suggested in the past the thing about PvP is that there is an OOC mechanical element to it which is difficult to convey through roleplay alone. Yeah, you can teach folks how to conduct ambushes, set traps etc. but in the end a significant factor in who is victorious does come down to knowledge of ingame mechanics which some people do not have an understanding of. So yeah pvp training in an ooc location would be great.
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There is a lot you can learn from others IG, which is really helpful and I definitely found that useful personally as a player. Maybe rather than another server, people could look into a concept of training other PCs. It would make it less scary to go outside CoA to learn it, and also it would create a fun IG experience. :)
I tried a bit of training on Tobias. Literally everyone who showed up just trolled the entire thing.
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But you speak from the position of someone who can win a physical PvP. I am fine with verbal sparring (if people can put up with my slow typing), but I'm mechanically terrible at PvP combat so I avoid engaging in it. I know there is the whole "you won't get better unless you try" thing, but I don't want my character to just get beaten up and/or killed over and over until I get better at PvP combat against people who will always still have an edge of more experience.
I let myself get into PvP anyway occasionally because other people enjoy it and the chance to strike at my character can up the tension between factions, but I'm bad at it and don't enjoy myself. I don't want to spend the time I've allotted for fun being unhappy.
And here we have the -real- problem. It's not people who PvP too much, it's people who are too afraid to put themselves out for a potential loss to actually partake in the story. Sorry if this offends anyone, but that's the truth of it. I say this as someone who used to be so crippled by fear of my characters looking "uncool" that I would log out of the server at the first sight of conflict. Then, I matured as a person and thought that maybe I should try pushing myself out there and see what happens, and what happened is that I got my ass beat by CB, several times, and lost my character… It was one of the best stories I've ever helped tell.
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Actually, I -think- there's another side to this problem: The fact that PVP ends in FD -too often- (in my opinion).
Based on the posts before (and on my experience for several years in CoA, on-and-off periodically), I've gotten the feeling that the people who do pvp often and who are -less- afraid of pvp, are usually a lot courteous OOC than those people who are less inclined to pvp. People who pvp a lot seem to more often just leave you bruised and your pride hurt, but alive. I know I shouldn't generalizes this, but, you know, folks who often play evil PC's. On the other hand, people who pvp less seem (and again, I'm sorry and I don't mean to point fingers, but in my personal experience, the people who play goodly pc's) a lot more eager to jump the gun.
It could be just that I've played a lot more evil PC's and may just have happened to see things more from their perspective, but… Evil PC's seem to die a lot more often - and a lot quicker, maybe even in the first time they engage in pvp. Any random character who summons an allip, or maybe threatens to murder people, or conducts muggings/extortions seem to die the first time they come into contact with goodly PC's - and most often this contact seems to come from a "1-3 people vs a lynch mob" encounters.
I want to emphasize that this is merely based on my own experience, but could it be that the people who tend to avoid pvp use FD more often because they are AFRAID that it is what they would face, should they lose - and that people who are more inclined to pvp avoid FD more because they would HOPE that they would be offered the same courtesy?
Frankly, I think FD should be avoided -as much as possible. Hells, I'm not really sure if there is any single situation that would definately warrant FD. EVEN IF YOUR CHARACTER WOULD KILL THE OTHER CHARACTER, You, AS a PLAYER, don't need to turn the FD on.
Nothing prevents you from beating that character unconcious, then emoting stabbing them in the stomach, and leaving them behind, cause hey, the man's as good as dead. Or just kicking the character "until he moves no more" and then leaving them be.FD enables you, as a character, to be certain that the other PC died. Unless your character really, really goes through the effort to ensure this (stab in the heart, cut off the head, sever limbs), the victim may very well live through some cuts, bruises, and wounds (especially in an enviroment where magical healing is readily available). How many of the characters we play, are really so cold blooded killers, that after the other guy is down, you go in and take the time to ensure that they really, really are dead?
I'd reccon that most people stop after the other guy drops. (Or maybe after you give a kick or two, for a good measure).Also on a related note - on the topic of full looting dead (or presumed dead) people - You've just cut the guy into pieces. There's blood everywhere, literally. Sure, you might snatch his ring or strip him off his amulet, or pick up the sword lying around, or cut off his purse, but what kind of a person stops there, after killing someone, to spend good several minutes to sort through all his stuff for everything valuable (and most likely soaked in blood)? Not any sane person, I'd recon.
(I also wan't to apologize if this I seem rambling or ranting or incoherent, long weekend, quite tired, late night, so on.)
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Have you seen some of our evil characters on the server? Would you describe most of them as sane?