PVP OOC Courtesy.
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My issue is that there are bunch of alternative punishments to straight up killing a guy over 'oh no my armor has been taken', but most of the time someone will kill a guy rather than: .
I'll throw in my two cents, since my character was killed (FD) likely by mistake.
I say likely because no one, apart from the leader of the group I was in, and for which I thought we were going to hunt a necromancer (DM event) sent me a tell [OOC courtesy] about the fact.
I even asked in the DM channel and received no answer (and I understand DMs would have been involved in the aftermath).In short, IG wise I have no idea about who killed my character, no idea why my character was killed (since I was stealthed and trying to run away) by people I was if not in friendly terms at least in neutral terms with. All this I am fine with, I decided to go into the ruins to hunt a necromancer and I am happy with closing the story of my character this way for the time being.
What really surprised me was the lack of communication from players. Sincerely spending time in the fugue without any idea of what is going on, whether I can respawn, if my body is used to do something or not is not what I aim for when playing Nwn on CoA. I can stay logged on for hours in the fugue if this gives the chance to others to have fun (and I've been doing this in the past) but with no information about it, sincerely I found that pointless.
So there you go, after 40 secs of "pvp" in which I didn't do anything, I find myself fugued and decide to terminate my character. (PS: I am not a big fan of pvp, and I literally spent all the "pvp" event watching how consumables win the fight, literally pvp win = consumables use which leads me to questing–>money/findings-->consumables-->pvp win)
Now I suggest everyone to think about the difference between "conflict" and "pvp".
As an example, just the day before the "battle", a group went together with one of the characters that got my character killed, to explore the exact same place. It would have been so easy to start a pvp 4 vs 1 and kill him on the spot. But I (ans I assume the rest of the people we went into the ruins with) found more rewarding to start the conflict by reporting his actions to the Citadel rather than killing the crazy puppet who was trying to do a blood sacrifice to an evil goddess in the ruins.
TL;DR
- OOC courtesy, use that, it costs nothing and may add to everyone's fun
- conflict and pvp not necessarily are the same thing (at least at the beginning)
- No hard feelings but I was not impressed by how things were handled yesterday.
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Almadyr… +1. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Aldamyr, you were killed by a monster, not a player.
Carniphages were everywhere because people were casting in the ruins, it was not intentional.
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No, I was not killed by a carniphage. Possibly by one animal companion (BLoodhunter or something like that).
Nevertheless my body should have been there for everyone to see. Dying in a pvp even where no one is on FD should spwan OOC courtesy. And that was what the post was about. Sending a tell to someone who died - even accidentally - is something that improves the outcome of a pvp event (and i learned this with time, I erred on the "lack of information side" before, that's why I have posted this).
If I leave you beaten and near death with no equipment and you die to a spawn I wouldn't say "I'm not responsible for your death, you were killed by a spawn".
That's in my opinion is part of what OOC courtesy is about.
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Sorry, I didn't even get a chance to read your initial post as I'm relatively busy. I was just pointing out that we were engaged in other things and thought you died to a carniphage and were working on getting a DM so those that died to the spawns could possibly get raised.
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Honestly I've see way more people on the so called "Evil side" be courteous in this regard than the "Good Guys" (This is subjective to view of course), and all it does is discourage me from letting people walk away from pvp 'they' started typically.
If all you can think of when it comes to facilitating extended conflict is "They hit me once lightly, now I'll kill them and take everything on their person so they can't do anything to me ever again", I can't help but feel like you're not doing much for the server.
This x100. The more lawful and more good someone is on the server, the more likely they'll be willing to kill someone over small conflict.
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Just because "they have it coming", doesn't mean that for the story it has to come immediately. This goes for social pvp actions by characters with powers.
Have contrary opinions all you folks want, be player or DM; Some people aren't quite getting a tiny amount of wiggle room to have fun. This just stagnates things into artificially people not being very true to their character until level 7 if they want to do anything. It's ridiculous to expect PCs to hide their ebol/plots/RP and just powerquest until level 7. It just serves to stifle the overall flow of the character over time, since it trains people to turn their story off until later.
It's an incredibly boring server when people are just trying to control what other people's characters do in an incredibly dull manner and pat themselves on the back for being "good player examples". All the while calling anyone "toxic" if they say otherwise. Telling people to take "muh consequences" to the point where its anti-fun, makes you the problem. Don't aim to drink from the tears of players, that is for DMs.
Also, people need to be reminded to remember the rules as to how far they are going when it comes to PVP. Being front of NPCs isn't some magical fairy land-
c). No PvP that will lead to PK can ever occur in front of non-hostile NPCs, even if those NPCs are friendly to you. I.E. Lawful Good lynch mobs killing evil Banites in a good temple does not fly. If NPCs are present, a DM MUST be present for PvP to occur. This does not only cover magical and physical attacks, but bully brow-beating and threats. If it is reasonable for an NPC to intervene or react to a situation, get a DM there to witness it.
Exception:
- You can use PP.
- Your victim and those nearby can beat the crap out of you if you are caught.
- You are part of a DM Faction with policing powers.
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Everyone has the conscience to see how greatly looting and bullying IG can demotivate someone when both are exercised in great frequency, and it takes no effort to exhibit a basic regard for others.
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Full Looting someone isnt a Roleplay Tool. It is 99% of the time felt like being kicked in the nuts OOC. Full Looting someone you killed, after a finished Conflict, makes sense as the loot would otherwise vanish. But otherwise, it is experienced as a slap in the face. That at least has been my experience in ALL my time here. Ive NEVER heard someone say "I got full looted, and I SO loved it". When you full loot someone, you dont intend to return any of the loot. I know this, because it is SUCH a hazzle doing.
Taking someones sword, armor, amulet, and using it to pursue a story is fun, or can be fun. Taking something from someone to taunt them, can easily be perceived as an OOC taunt of "I am superior to you, jack ass", and should therefore be done with care.
End of rant.
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Taking someone's sword, amulet, etc to pursue the story can be fun. Taking all of someone's armour, amulet, sword, etc, etc not so fun and not so needed to make a story.
I personally with Hrar the werewolf only aimed to take blood to use to make blight potions with, with the exception of Tanivek who i would have taken his silver axe (knowing full well he would forge a new one very quickly and come hunting for the old). So no loss of anything but dignity to those that were beaten and a progression of story with Tanivek following the running conflict with him.
Zool's rule stands… "don't be a dick".
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Dry Looting is the Tool of someone who cares nothing for the other player.
Dry looting should 100% REQUIRE a DM to be present.
Lets make this a rule. -
Despite people and certain DMs love to blame Abby for all the server problems, his loot system ensured that people cannot be dry looted easily. I still believe that with certain tweaks this system can be viable in ensuring this does not happen.
If people cant not be dicks, use a system that doesnt allow them to become one with their dickness.
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I stick to my rule of only ever taking gold, potions or plot/faction loot without a DM when it comes to looting.
I've experienced being full looted along with a factionmate on a previous PC and was seething for hours after.
All of my PC's flavourful loot, gold and supplies to allow me to continue plotting gone! I wrote down the player names that did it so I wouldn't forget them if I ever encountered them in a reverse situation but I tossed it out after I calmed down and rolled with it. The DMs and my allies compensated for my loss and I went on my way to recover.It's possible to recover from it but the fun I could create for the server and myself was massively hindered and for a number of hours after it happened I hated a character that I would eventually call my masterpiece, the players that did it to me and their allies that didn't deserve my loathing and the server.
What I'm trying to say is that over-looting and full-looting should never happen but if it does, don't quit over it. It's up to you if it ruins your PC.
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Being almost fully looted once with Kimmi was something that broke the camels back for me. It was after a no roleplay PVP, one that i tried to roleplay several times, but the attackers just ignored it until we were down. It was the fact that i was looted by about 4 people of literally everything apart from my armour, shield, weapons and misc stuff (Like quill, pestle & mortar etc.) It was even more annoying that one of the looters had to PM me and ask what something was that they had looted from me, as they didnt even know what it was. Why take it if you dont know what it is? Why group assault someone who is trying to talk to you whilst you stand there slilently buffing yourself to hell? I was already having a bad time at the time and was considering quitting/taking a break anyway, and that just left such a bad taste in my mouth, it was almost a month until i came back.
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If someone full loots your character when you do not intend to quit the PC, contact a DM. This constitutes being a dick and will be handled. This is a rule. You should not do this.
That said, be your own advocate. If you are dead, trying asking a living player what do to. Should I respawn? Is it safe? Are they doing something with your body? If you intend to respawn or be raised, tell your attacker this. If you get caught in pvp you want no part in, put your weapon away and emote Stays out of the fight to make it clear to others. Even if you are not fighting, walking around healing your allies counts as taking part in the pvp, and is ground for getting the shit kicked out of you.
We really don't have very many dicks on CoA because dicks tend to get banned. This is not universally true, but most of what happens to upset people results from mistakes and miscommunication.
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Despite people and certain DMs love to blame Abby for all the server problems, his loot system ensured that people cannot be dry looted easily. I still believe that with certain tweaks this system can be viable in ensuring this does not happen.
If people cant not be dicks, use a system that doesnt allow them to become one with their dickness.
We like to follow a system of not limiting things for everyone just because there are some people who aren't courteous. What wen like to do, is to stop the individuals, not make everyone elses play more difficult, or remove creative opportunities.
The looting system -is- terrible, it has always been terrible, it also has some bugs lying about in it.
If you want to actually do something more interesting with someones loot, like grab up a bunch of their stuff, and leave a trail of it running through the sewers to a falsified crime scene you created, with notes, and your ally who is working as a spy/informant, spreading false information to stand there and talk about how terrible the scene is with the person ytou just lead to it, then you really dont want to have to mess about with typing,
.loot1
.loot2
.loot3
.loot4
….......in order to do so, it's ridiculous, and limits people who actually want to do fun things, or create interesting scenes and story elements.