Bring back more "badass-ery" to CoA
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The OP hasn't found the IG Troll Store Keeper that sells the "Evil Ass-less Chaps" yet? They only come in spikey black leather.
The ultimate in "Badass-ery" Accessories. :shock:
The OP has experienced almost everything this server has to offer, from hardcore powergaming to victory through RP. Yet the ass-less pants have eluded me, a shame.
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This.
Meh. I miss the thugs in the slums that would try to rob/threaten/blackmail you as soon as you stepped in… Now, I can't find anyone in there :(
Slums is the new Northwest.
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This.
Meh. I miss the thugs in the slums that would try to rob/threaten/blackmail you as soon as you stepped in… Now, I can't find anyone in there :(
Slums is the new Northwest.
No reason why people don't do this, it's just down to laziness imho and nothing any change in the server or DM policy would alter. Saying that though..
I think the slums could do with less NPCs on the streets to make PvP there more viable and spontaneous. Having to wait for a DM to oversee stuff like that is a pain in the ass.
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Haven’t read the entire thread, but~
The whole vibe over FD really needs to be revised, it's a completely viable PvP tool! Of course other avenues should be explored beforehand, and conflict should be drawn out, but death happens. Characters die on quests and to spawns all the time - I don’t know about anyone else but I’d much rather die in an interesting bit of PvP.
It’s a PvP server after all, actions have consequences, part and parcel of the game. It’s not the end of the world, or the end of your character if you don't want it to be – take it as it comes, so long as it is interesting, interactive and purposeful I’m all for it.
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It’s a PvP server after all
Labelling CoA as a PvP server immediately alienates a fair number of players who enjoy a more slow paced Role Play associated.
I'm not sure we want to have the server labelled as PvP, as that implies that PvP is the purpose of the server. PvP is surely an integral part of may people's experience and should be, since it gives them entertainment. However, there are many people who regard PvP as their worst nightmare. We also need to consider these people as well in our plans.
Is server is much more, and this is my personal opinion, of a Persistant World that is designed to foster Adventure and Intrigue. PvP is but one component of this.
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I didn't mean Arabel should or could be defined as solely a PvP server, I meant it's a server that allows for PvP - PvP has a role to play and FDing is part of that.
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@The:
It’s a PvP server after all
I disagree with all of that. In the past, during CoA's heydays, many DMs have labelled CoA as a PVP server and it is. Or was. I'm not sure what it is anymore, but since V4 set in, alot of the exciting stuff revolved around that aspect of PVP has become discouraged to facilitate these "slow paced roleplay" game styles that draw things out to an ungodly amount of time. Some of these players are now DMs who will now dictate how the server will evolve in terms of these rules and general conscesus.
And in my opinion, not for the better.
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Don't worry, BG, I'll not be dictating a slow paced Roleplay form of adventuring. I will try and ensure I cater to all sorts of differing styles of Game Play, and have already done so, overseeing and enabling some PvP that was very entertaining, and also providing some slower paced adventures for other players.
We also have other DMs who love PvP and will foster that as well. Hopefully, helping a wide variety of players enjoy the server, fast-paced, slow-paced, PvP, PvM, political, intrigue, adventure, planar walking, all sorts.
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Could we get some examples of what people would want to do when it comes to PvP that they feel they can't currently do, or can't without a lot of back-and-forth with DMs?
Something more specific than "kill someone", which is impossible to distinguish from griefing without some more information.
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One thing that I would throw into this discussion from a mostly retired DM is that it is hard to take entirely seriously the frequent calls from some players who love PvP to make the server more PvP intensive and loosen the rules on it, because those players so consistently gravitate towards one another to form groups geared toward PvP which then target players who don't like PvP and as a consequence win extremely easily every time, as would be expected.
I can count on approximately 0 fingers the times I have seen as a DM when players who like PvP have formed rival groups and gone at each other in a titanic battle that was even close to fairly matched. It may be a different perspective but this did seem to happen more (way) back in the day, I was involved in a few such battles and it was far more enjoyable than just beating down some guys who clearly aren't into it. What I would suggest to these players is to try and bring that back. It's like playing casual sports, unless you're a dick you pick fair sides.
Finally I would say that CoA is and always has been a roleplay server that allows and encourages PvP, it is not a PvP server. That's not a semantic difference, the PvP comes as a consequence of the roleplay, not the other way around.
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When you get into a PvP mindset, levels and character builds matter more then RP.
A RP character will never beat a character that is built for PvP, it is a dangerous road to go down.
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He should if he's connected enough. If he decides to go one on one against a killing machine he deserves to get the shit beat out of him. I don't see Barack Obama going one on one against Anderson Silva if they were rivals.
This is what the ganking squads should be facing if they chase down someone heavily connected. Allies who come and beat the living shit out of them which is why mobs should always need dm overseeing them imo.
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@Whitelight:
One thing that I would throw into this discussion from a mostly retired DM is that it is hard to take entirely seriously the frequent calls from some players who love PvP to make the server more PvP intensive and loosen the rules on it, because those players so consistently gravitate towards one another to form groups geared toward PvP which then target players who don't like PvP and as a consequence win extremely easily every time, as would be expected.
I can count on approximately 0 fingers the times I have seen as a DM when players who like PvP have formed rival groups and gone at each other in a titanic battle that was even close to fairly matched. It may be a different perspective but this did seem to happen more (way) back in the day, I was involved in a few such battles and it was far more enjoyable than just beating down some guys who clearly aren't into it. What I would suggest to these players is to try and bring that back. It's like playing casual sports, unless you're a dick you pick fair sides.
Finally I would say that CoA is and always has been a roleplay server that allows and encourages PvP, it is not a PvP server. That's not a semantic difference, the PvP comes as a consequence of the roleplay, not the other way around.
This.
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@Sharran2:
I don't see Barack Obama going one on one against Anderson Silva if they were rivals.
Win Thread. GG
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You know, there's plenty of opportunity for badassery, make no mistake.
The story is…sorta, player driven, I guess, but it's got two broken legs and an eye-patch, maybe even a stump at it's wrist.
It gets very annoying when the players that are supposed to be driving the story are more interested in driving sharp things into each other's pixels and codes (their characters).
I'm not going to point any fingers here, but frankly I think some people are just pets for certain DMs. I'll leave it up for everyone to decide whether or not I'm right with this or wrong.
Anywho, badassery has a few requirements. It requires immersion and it requires thinking outside of the box. Sure, classics like 1 on 1 with the orc chieftain and rocking the shit are also cool, but you have to be built to be mechanically powerful to do that. And the way the DMs say this often is that they like the less powerful builds more. Why is that? A character is not defined entirely by his stats, the stats are just the outline for who that character is.
A PC is not just the dude, his character sheet and his goal in CoA. This topic was reached in one of the previous posts I believe. To put it simply...I think most people on CoA work the angles to further their own plots. It's what makes people so timid when it comes to standing before the big baoss at the end of a dungeon crawl. The PCs that are in factions, are trying to change something stand and stare at the boss with aloof, ponderous expressions whilst they consider whether or not they will die and lose the level of power they have attained to further their goals, while that one guy that just doesn't give a rat's ass about plots or any intrigues he may have started just decides that the only way out is a frontal engagement and outright charges the boss, which in turn, the timid players take it as their que to realise that once the fight has started the DM is not going to likely stop with that one PC that rushed up to fight the boss, so they are "forced" to join in.
And this makes me feel that many characters on CoA have become shallow and two-dimensional. Some more, some less than others, because, I know you might all hate me for saying this, but with some, I just feel like there's a wooden plank standing infront of my character, with armor and weapons painted on it, whilst a ventriloquist unable to speak in anything but monotone talks one-liners through what is presumed to be the plank's mouthhole.
I am sorry I have to be this blunt, but at least I am not going to point any fingers.
All of the stuff I mentioned above is not badass, it really isn't. Overall I think the server's become too linear not in it's plots, because those are like a Castlevania game. Linear in it's intent, more like. You have your plot, crank it. Those other PCs have their own plot, you are against each other, you have to best them in some way to advance your plot, crank it.
Things have become too much about the plotline and less about the characters. If someone decides to disregard the plotline and just do what he feels like doing, he's going to be seen in different shades of "dumb b***h" by the other characters.
Adventuring Companies are now either quest-grinders or simply mercenaries or both.
Mercenaries have goals apart from making huge amounts of money by hitting things, which makes them something that's not a mercenary.
NPCs are just there to look pretty unless they're telling you what to do or kick your ass to teach you humility. I have very often gotten that same message that NPCs wont do your work for you. Well, no, of course not, but is it much to expect that the NPC will do it's work on it's own? I guess not. You can't donate to the Ilmateri temple to improve conditions in the slums, no matter how close your coinpurse is to bursting. You can't hire a private army because mercenaries are at a shortage these days or something. You can't buy a lot of land to do whatever because that'd be too damn easy. You can't invest in Abner's bakery to produce food for the needy, you have to make a giant tree that bears huge fruit. You can't buy materials like wood or stone from a merchant coster, hire an architect, then hire some muscle and build yourself a Skull Fortress like a normal evil overlord would.
Again: I'll simplify. The DMs refuse to make NPCs helpful to the point where they are unrealistically static.
This, has to change in my opinion, but it most definately wont, I'm sure.
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@Ela:
You can't invest in Abner's bakery to produce food for the needy, you have to make a giant tree that bears huge fruit.
I respect your opinion, but lets be honest, the second one is way more fun. If we let players with the most gold have permanent effects on the module then it would be a case of who plays the most, who quests the most and who PvP-loots / PKs the most. While none of these are disallowed, promoting them as the way to have the biggest influence leaves RP in the dust.
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Those where not the best examples, but honestly, you can't deny that sometimes it's just unreal. Like the Red Hart finally coming in full force JUST as the adventurers, led by a squire who's supposed to be polishing his boss' armour save the city. Or like the Purple Dragons refusing to send a contingent of men to re-take a town filled with demons/cutthroats/angry old ladies.
Those things -have- happened, one example is more recent than the other.
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I can toss my nickle in on the Hart issue. It made for a good story that the PC's had a defining role in. If the Harts showed up earlier.. we would have sat around watching NPCs fight NPCs. Maybe afterwards, we could all go to the inn and listen to a NPC bard sing of the valor of the NPC Harts saving the city from the NPC invasion?
No thanks on that. We are the star players in this movie, not cast as extras. The DMs handled it perfectly in that case. It just so happened the encounter was focused on character development for one person. I would have a much larger issue, with the fact someone mentioned before.. a pile of people witnessed DIVINE INTERVENTION and just yawned or walked off.
Dont give me that crud about " oh well my character is an athiest" By my personal count a little more than half the server PCs at this moment act with overt antipathy to religion. Lets see how many of those people beg at the church for a restoration when they get level drained, or ask for wands to be made. I dont care how many people tell me Bigfoot doesnt exist, if he walked up and beat down my neighbor, i would really have to question my position that instant.
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I personally have found several very interesting and three dimensional characters who seem to be involved in plots as well. I play in a time zone where the server count is like 8 people and there's 3 or 4 people on at that time that I don't mind talking to rather than questing for hours on end. I guess I'm lucky because I really like killing stuff so they must be really good.
I do think some people seem extremely concerned about living up to some sort of standard set by the DMs. Nothing personal DMs (you're some of the best RPers on the server and always a joy to get some love from on occasion) but I could care less what they want. They made it clear the playstyle they are going to REWARD (and that seems to be loosening a bit with our new crop of DMs) and everyone freaked out trying to pander to their whims or quit because they didn't like it.
You can still do what you like and you can RP and hold sway and influence over other players. You can powerquest all you like. You're just not going to get a statue built in your honor just because you can raise 10,000 gold on your own. Maybe you will if you create intrigue around it (a bit of an overblown word- let's call it friendly competition or slight adverseness) then maybe you'll get the stuff you need from the DMs. Maybe you have a spy for the local thieves guild on your bakesale committee, or walk through whomever-is-the current-Robin Hood's forest with the gold on your way to buy food and you have to convince him not to take the money… whatever. It's a t least interesting to more than one person.
There's the deal really- all this A&I stuff come about because the DMs wanted to REWARD players who made fun for others and didn't want to DM events like a-very-special-meeting-of the planning and zoning committee to discuss placement of the homeless shelters. To be honest- if 8 players showed up and said they wanted to do that, some DM might take it on. We also need conflict (not necessarily fighting) between players because CoA never has had enough DM hours on a consistent basis to personally walk a player through their story or plot including conflict with only NPCs. And why would they want to?
REWARD: I'm not a dog, I don't care about DM Rewards and I don't care about annoying other players. I do what I like doing and I logoff if I get bored.
Here's the win and here's being badass: make a character who feels real and has some general goals. Go about your thing inviting people along. Never sacrifice good fun for XP and loot and never drop character. Work with or against everyone on the server but make sure people know who you are. Treat NPCs as if they're real people but that they are only there to sell you sh*t and mark where you can't kill someone out in the open. If you're a believable character and people are having fun in what you're doing more people will flock to you and the DMs will have to show up. If only a few people show up and no DMs, then you've still played a believable character and had a lot of fun with a few people. If you've got something you think is big going on, then PM and let them know what's up and who's involved. But don't sit around fretting over whether the DMs love you or not.
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@Deadlock:
@Ela:
You can't invest in Abner's bakery to produce food for the needy, you have to make a giant tree that bears huge fruit.
I respect your opinion, but lets be honest, the second one is way more fun. If we let players with the most gold have permanent effects on the module then it would be a case of who plays the most, who quests the most and who PvP-loots / PKs the most. While none of these are disallowed, promoting them as the way to have the biggest influence leaves RP in the dust.
and what if dm controlled thugs steal the moneyt said character has donated to Abner and force adventurers to pursue the thieves in their lair? Isnt that as exciting as recovering the seed of the mystical tree?
Going back to the badassery id like to point out that badassery should not only be interpreted as the +18ab enemy, but to the good wizard to sacrifice his apprenyice pr the squore to betray hos knight.
Make things more dificult rp wise not mechanically!