Bring back more "badass-ery" to CoA
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Hmmmm….
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The concept of gimping your characters mechanical stats under the pretense that its an "RP character" is ridiculous IMO.
And besides.
I don't see Barack Obama going one on one against Anderson Silva if they were rivals.
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… stuff ...
Nikko, the point of my post was to encourage different playing styles on the server and incorporate different sorts of players. I am in no doubt that what has harmed the server population is too much hostility to player choice and the bringing in of too much power away from players and towards dms.
Spending all day to me smithing and playing trader would bore me stupid, but when the crafting system was killed, it did annoy those who did. Also it is entirely ignorant to suggest that all crafters were also crappy rpers. I recall Trystan and those associated with Trystans Trade were awesome roleplayers.
Also as soon as the crafting system was scrapped the was a large exodus of players from the server, as a lot of people became annoyed over the loss of a 'feature' they had enjoyed for years.
So yes it was a shit idea to scrap the original crafting system, as we lost a lot of players and it is entirely regrettable, that the DMs at the time listened to the few players who couldn't bear people profiting over their own initiative over the majority (many of whom left) who were too busy putting time into their own character to have the energy to be putting time into pulling down the characters of others.
I am dead meritocratic in how I appraise things, had the slaying of the crafting system either maintained or extended the player base I would have been all for it. It clearly didn't do this, so its removal was a failure.
With pvp, I am entirely of the view that characters should be allowed to always react naturally and hate it when they cannot for purely ooc reasons as this breaks immersion. This does mean that I do believe in FD pvp, if the situation warrants it from a characters perspective. However I also understand that not everyone enjoys pvp for a wide variety of reasons, so the principle of my suggestion was to try and find a way to allow for both styles of play to flourish. I also went to the trouble of explaining how this could be done in a story based manner as well.
More choices and give more power to players = good
Taking away choices away from players = badSpartan
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I can promise you that people didn't leave this server when the ATS crafting was removed, unless you don't mean original when you say original. What wast he next one, CNR? Then Vulcano's? I can't remember, but I can promise that people didn't leave when any crafting system was removed, because the server population has never spiked or dropped during times with relation to crafting.
Crafting promotes solo-play and (unless built with the opposite in mind) refraining from adventuring and exploring. To me, the true problem with crafting is it's very premise. Either you're able to make magical items that equal or surpass the power of items you find adventuring, or you can only make mundane items (in otherwords, useless). If you can craft all your items, what makes the legendary sword you found so special? If you can't craft items with magical properties, whats the goddamned point of crafting?
Non-PvP areas is a horrendous idea and doesn't fit with this server in the slightest. If you don't like PvP, you're on the wrong server.
I think you guys are just trying to find problems where the don't exist. The module has only gotten better and better. The storytelling from DMs has only become better, the ability for players to drive plots and entertain other players is better and so on and so on.
In general, DnD, and especially NWN is balanced at level 10 and has been since release. All classes are equally important at this level, and none hold a major advantage. Wizards begin to advance and fighters begin to decline in terms of power, but all participants are equally vital. The XP levels is perfect. The magic levels are equally good, but will always fluctuate with time. Faerun is a High Fantasy setting. You think Lord of the Rings is High Fantasy? No way, not compared to FR, magical items are common, and powerful magic items (+2 and above) are not hard to come by. CoA has managed to find the spirit of FR and make all characters feel special with unique magical equipment, while managing to keep the encounters balanced.
The only problem is that the game is a decade old and losing players.
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@AWESOMEMAN:
I can promise you that people didn't leave this server when the ATS crafting was removed, unless you don't mean original when you say original. What wast he next one, CNR? Then Vulcano's?
Vulcano's system, the major one, which should have been pretty obvious from the context of the message.
@AWESOMEMAN:
I can't remember, but I can promise that people didn't leave when any crafting system was removed, because the server population has never spiked or dropped during times with relation to crafting.
Are you simply joking or merely sucking up to the dms on this? The server population clearly did drop after the original crafting system was binned.
@AWESOMEMAN:
Crafting promotes solo-play and (unless built with the opposite in mind) refraining from adventuring and exploring. To me, the true problem with crafting is it's very premise. Either you're able to make magical items that equal or surpass the power of items you find adventuring, or you can only make mundane items (in otherwords, useless). If you can craft all your items, what makes the legendary sword you found so special? If you can't craft items with magical properties, whats the goddamned point of crafting?
What makes my crafted item special is that I made it with my own effort. As it is dangerous outside the city, I likely wont be resource hunting alone. If i am gathering resources I am also exploring. Finally I see nothing wrong with a player deciding how to play their own character, merchant or what not, rather than have other players or the DMs decide for them. The last point being the important one, that whiny players pressured the DMs to remove a 'choice' from players on how they wished to play their character took away from the experience.
@AWESOMEMAN:
Non-PvP areas is a horrendous idea and doesn't fit with this server in the slightest. If you don't like PvP, you're on the wrong server.
On the contrary had you gone to the great trouble of reading my post, before going into suck up mode, you would have noticed that in fact I highlighted that I am very much of the preference of full pvp, as it is more realistic. Presently however there is the problem that pvp is restricted purely on OOC grounds, which is IC illogical and so thus immersion breaking. Such also comes across metagamish.
However as there is a current of some players who don't like pvp, I tried to think out a compromise which is more than you have contributed to this debate Awesomeman.
@AWESOMEMAN:
I think you guys are just trying to find problems where the don't exist. The module has only gotten better and better. The storytelling from DMs has only become better, the ability for players to drive plots and entertain other players is better and so on and so on.
While I do think on balance most of what the DM team past and present has done has improved the server, it is neither useful nor objective to suggest everything has been a success, especially when a small number of decisions have had a clearly averse effect. As I enjoy this server and want to see it prosper as much as possible it is useful and constructive to point out things that go wrong, when they have gone wrong, along with one or more possible ways to fix said problem. What isn't useful is hijacking an opportunity for debate, which people are using to bring to light things perceived as problems and find solutions, to play sycophant in order to try and garner favouritism.
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I like the magic level, and the character lvls where they are right now.
As far as pvp goes, I believe it's part of what makes the wheels of Coa turn. I myself have never been one of those that sought after pvp like some, but I have participated in it when the situation was appropriate. If any thing about pvp leaves a bad taste in my mouth, it is that some players try to solve -all- of their problems with their attack roll instead of looking for other solutions. That doesn't happen just with pvp mind you but also with questing. There are number crunchers on coa who have more than mastered the art of pvp, and tailor their play style to get them into situations where they can "legitimately" knock the crap out of other characters. Without pointing fingers I will say that those that do this are no fun to play with and simply piss me off.
On building gimped mechanical characters for rp sake - This gets into the realm of telling other people how to play, and I don't like to do that. I'll use myself as an example… My current character, Sage Swiftfoot, is not able to handle the least of the creature spawns on Coa in one on one combat. Pvp?? Forget about it! He'd be crushed. Why is he such a mechanically gimped build then? Because it was the only way that a cleric of Brandobaris made sense to me. There seems to be an increasing amount of ooc disrespect for character builds that aren't mechanically optimized to take down quests at a run, or to pvp other players.
If we are looking for reasons that people don't like to play on this -rp-server any more, I wouldn't look towards crafting, or magic, or character levels. I would look at the deterioration of any meaningful role playing. To me pushing convoluted plot frenzy, or messy and boring city politics is not rp in itself. Character interaction between -characters- is. The quests, the plots, all the events the dms create for us on this wonderfully server are just tools to facilitate the character interactions and role playing. I think that when you look back at what was fun on coa its not going to be the skull fortress that was built in your characters honor. It will be your social time with the characters and players here. That social experience is the only thing that is even close to real here. The skull fortress is not...
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…stuff...
Bravo, sir! I applaud this frank summation of the current events here at CoA - CoA is fine, the player base needs a bit of a direction shift is all…
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Last time I will ask for civility. Next offense on this thread, it will be lock and ban from forums.
Thank you.
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The idea of safe zones is positively terrible, I don't see how DMs even factor in. Avoiding PvP is simple. Don't get involved in politics and plots. I'm not being snide either, there's plenty of characters that live very long lives by doing this. Presumably the main focus of the server is pushing the storyline, which involves PvP often enough, but DMs have said in the past that more than one type of player is welcome.
Vulcano's system was pretty pointless I think. Crafting in general is. I make an exception for magic consumable crafting since it takes no time and resources, and is a pretty cornerstone to playing a spell-caster.
Again, this isn't a snide comment, but I don't usually read your posts, just sift through, because they're all novel-length. If I miss something, sorry, but maybe try to condense your thoughts. That said, what I've gathered, I disagree with most of your points and don't understand how you're arriving at the conclusion that we lost players over the crafting system.
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"More than one type of player is welcome."
What you see as "Pointless" other players liked doing. What you like doing others may not.
It would seem enough players asked for some sort of crafting system that one was brought back. With it soon to be further expanded?
Myself i find the politics and posturing of "Adventure and Intrigue" tedious, i like the big set piece server wide battles. But without the former there is no latter. Each to his own.
The DMs have made alot of great changes to freshen up the place. Maybe it's now up to the players to dig deeper and find some new concept ideas.
No faction or area cannot be changed or destroyed by IC actions. It's a sandy beach we can all build castles on. Or kick over as the case may be.
So i see no need to move the clock/setting forwards or sideways when players can reshape the world through ingame actions like never before.
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I hate the phrase ''Adventure and Intrigue'', it should be banned. It's like those big companies who come up with catch words to make themselves sound important.
I want to find whoever came up with it and feed them to pigs.
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Was it Moloch?
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I think so, Adventure and Intrigue (TM)
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You can't please everyone all the time, I blame the MMO's for the easy vs hardcore feel the player base is having.
My opinion is somewhat biased, Most people learn their characters strength and weakness quickly if you charge into a fight with a wizard non poly morphed you're probably going to die
In the end to all players, play what you want and how you want it, Honestly your time play it how you want to (not at the expense of someone/s else fun)
If you only interesting in quest and XP go for it, if you want to Roleplay and tell an epic story with story go for it, if you just wanna make a character and play with your friends, If you want to sit in the market all day begging for coins. Go for it! What's stopping you. -
I think the whole Adventure and Intrigue thing caused people to focus less on characters and more on plot which isn't necessarily a good thing imho. Nikko was right, CoA Sims may not have always been the most exciting but it allowed people to focus on their characters rather than always trying to solve the next plot. I still get nostalgic thinking about those days even when they are long gone. However I hope this server can find a balance to accommodate both playing styles in the future.
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I still get nostalgic thinking about those days even when they are long gone
What I wonder is, why are they gone? I mean, the market is still there, isn't it?
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Myself i honestly never liked the crafting stuff, in v3 i liked the earlier crafting systems more but it was a time thing.. To me there was good and bad about it
Good: People would work in groups together to do caravan runs for example to gather Iron or copper or whatever, Or go skinning bears for tanning etc.
Bad: People with money or the most time in the game held all the power over person that pushing forward plot or just having fun rp.
I do hate the adventure intrudge thing, I found when i focus on it (I'll attempt i've been doing it with my current char, Is just focusing on goals and not on having fun, i had lots of fun with old chars where i did what i wanted and in some cases the dm noticed me and threw me a bone. sometimes they didn't and honestly who cares.
The best (gear wise character i had sadly had money who just bought and sold items and got quickly really good ones, from i bet other players PVPING or just cool items that they can't wear (due to class or alignment and just sold em off.
Which Sadens me.
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Give me a fastforward into Post-Spellplague Arabel in the 1400's. The magic/item/player level are brought down to reflect its harsh nature. Let the Shadovar have their invasion of Sembia, turning it into some puppet state whilst marudering on the fringes of what remains of Cormyr ruled under the once so called boy-king. Give players a central plot to revolve around all characters, great and small; something that asks why/who/what/where, Something like escaping from the underdark, but obviously not escape from the underdark, allowing specific places to spawn into the world to act as a template to their story.
Or maybe pick a new setting that would offer similar challenges and hardships. Just an attractive prospect to me.
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Numbers some of you might appreciate…
Player Count:
Day / Time:
Levels:
Min Lvl:
Max Lvl:
Avg Lvl:
Back to the original topic, I think the player count has a lot to do with it - more than setting, level of magic, difficulty, crafting or anything else. The characters in the upper bracket are the ones I would expect to be there - i.e. the ones I've been playing with consistently since picking up the game again a few months ago. Of course, there are times I log in with fewer players, and the average level is much higher. Those are usually the dead hours though.
I'm reminded of an NWN2 PW I used to play in. We would average about 5 players at a time, and most of them played approved concepts, special subraces and prestige classes. It threw me off at first. It certainly wasn't CoA. I came to the conclusion that it wasn't such a bad thing though. Fewer players also meant that the DMs could focus more on individual character development, and that worked out great.
Personally, I love the server the way it is, and wouldn't change a thing. I find it more engaging than ever - both story-wise and mechanically. Of course, this is coming from somebody who stopped playing back in '03, and probably doesn't know what he's missing. The way I see it though, given that a big chunk of the current population is comprised of the more hardcore vets, you'll see the same pattern unless there's a sudden increase in newer, more casual players.
Just my 2 cents… :)
Disclaimer: I skipped most of the posts in this thread.
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I agree with what BrokenGunBlade said except making the plot centralized. I like how CoA has a multitude of storylines going on at once and letting players pursue the ones which interest them and fit their characters the most. If you do a central storyline its probably gonna wind up with something like big bad dragon is terrorizing the area go kill it type of thing which gets old for some people fast, in EFU it was an undead lich. I am not saying its a bad server I just think a multitude of plots is better for catering to a diverse player base such as ours some who may not be interested in slaying the big bad dragon but intriguing against faction X or solving some magical great mystery etc. It personalizes the experience and allows greater freedom to define what they think their character's existence means rather than letting it be defined for them.