Playing a successful monk
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So, in the past few months I've made 3 monks. They've reached level 8, 6, and 5 respectivly. Each had it's own unique build/crossclass/alignment. However, I rage quitted on all of them after level 3 because dieing but once is just so crippling to monks. I'm looking for some tips on how to survive and play a successful monk character on a server like CoA. Discuss!
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Dying isnt crippling.
Secondly, what you are refering or asking abiut, isnt how to roleplay a succesful monk, but how to work it mechanically, and I believe that alone is your problem.
Find a concept that fits. Something fun. The Good crusader, the evil devote of death or Bane, the neutral seeker of wisdom and perfection, caring little of others, many choices.
As to how to play one succesful, mechanically…
Dont multiclass. And use potions. Secondly, decide if you want to survive on damage, or not being slaughtered.
My advice... stats somewhere around 12 14+ 14 the rest in your social stats.
Then use ALOT of potions.
At lvl one, with the right potions, and say you have 14 in both dex and wis for starters.
Thats 14 ac. +2 from cats grace, +2 from owls, +4 from mages armor, +4 from shield, +3 from barkskin.
Suddenly, 29 ac.
Surviving as a monk means you either need someone to spend spells on you, or buy alot. Kale, the most succesful monk on CoA, used ALOT of potions, and he killed adult dragons, ALONE.
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Yes, when playing a monk magic is your friend.
My AC was so high (standard was around 25 BUT it was a Githzerai monk) that when I was hit there was a very high chance of being critted. Don't forget that monks should not be frontliner but flankers due to the high number of attacks.
An interesting way to play a monk is to apply to become a Wyvern or act as a bodyguard of one member of the mage guild.
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also once you get so much levels in pure monk COA gives you a concealment bonus which is nice :)
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29 ac fully buffed is not very good after L6.
I've seen too many 15 to 18 AB mobs that would eat you in 2 rounds (I'm sure you didn't mean to get their attention).
Throwing stars maybe?
If we are excluding RP, monks are horrific. They cant buf and they cant tank. Even vs Mages, I'd rather have a high HP fighter then rely on the risky MR.
RP wise they rock.
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Thanks to a few other threads I've read I think I've managed to understand a little bit more on how to roleplay monks better. Mechcanically speaking however, there's no way to get your ac that high unless you nearly max/min a monk. You'll never get high enough to get a concealment bonus for being a monk. The average level is 8. DM's had to give monks a monk book just so monks could get their naturally occuring bonuses otherwise they'd be impossible to obtain.
Also, the ammount of money spent on potions such as that compaired to the life span survivability of a monk is a very long time. I've also found out that if you were to buy the magical items that gave you bonuses to ac, you would never get more of a benefit from a potion then a fighter would since ac bonuses like that don't stack. The only benefits I can see monks getting more out of potions to ac would be from things like cats grace or owls wisdom where the time it lasts isn't worth the potion.
I say it's crippling for monks when they die because it really just is. Until you reach level 8, you should't fight in melle. Your attack damage is lower, your hp is lower, your ac is lower, and your attack bonus is lower then any other fighter class. You're like a barbarian at lower levels of monk or a fighter with expertise on permentally. You can deal damage or go for an ac build, but either way makes you very uneffective in combat. I'm trying -really- hard to not go for range support with a crossbow since things like slings and throwing stars are useless with their pitaful amount of damage.
Going back to the RP aspect of monks, It's hard to explain but I've read somewhere that they strive to perfect themselves in certain things. For example, instead of doing something in the name of good, they act to do something because it's the essence of good, if that makes any sense at all. How do you follow RP paths like that?
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Weapon finess and 18 dex will help alot, as you get the AC bonus and dex bonus added to AB.
My monk has 32 AC fully buffed and is not min/max
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Weapon finess and 18 dex will help alot, as you get the AC bonus and dex bonus added to AB.
My monk has 32 AC fully buffed and is not min/max
What level is your monk? Well, I suppose it doesn't matter since tanks at that level have around 37-40 ac fully buffed and still get hit 50% of the time.
You are right though, I usually go for weapon finess, however you cannot get that until level 3. If you go for the ac build like that though your damage output is vastly inferior and your attack bonus is still less then the other classes. Until you get to where you're doing 1d10 damage with your fists, I really don't see a reason why you should use anything but heavy crossbow for your entire life.
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Honestly Swifty… If that is how you look at monks, then your view is too flawed already.
Its the same as saying...
Rogues suck. They get pitiful HP, their ab sucks, they cannot deal good damage unless they flank. They cannot frontline man, what AM I TO DO?!
Monks are monks. They arent fighters, they arent melee experts, they arent barbarians. Monks are monks.
They can be stealthy asassins, they can be wisdom seeking old men fighting with a stick, they can be insane masters of Parry, they can be anything.
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Eagleman is 3 rogue, 3 ranger and 5 monk, I focused the entire build around the monk class. At level 11, I only have 25 AC, and thats with two bits of equipment that give me +2 to AC, not to mention all the other AC equipment I have. However, fully buffed with potions I can acquire 33 to 34 AC, which costs alot, but the only time I really ever need to use all my various potions to buff is if we dont have a tank in the party and I have to act as tank. Otherwise I often find a potion of shield and barkskin does me just fine.
Over all, I think I did a hell of a job with his build, while Eagleman is not the best combat wise mechanically, he can still hold his own, he can spot and disable traps well, unlock doors and chests well, sneak real well, track pretty damn well. Over all I'd say hes an above avarage jack of all trades. Again, hes not mechanically the greatest at any one thing, but hes good enough and most importantly I have enough fun with him where it doesnt matter to me much.
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I've always found monks to be very effective in melee combat. You just need to master the art of flanking. It doesn't matter how low your AC is, if you know how to avoid taking hits you can deal some excellent damage on distracted enemies, and at level 6 you get improved knockdown which makes you an even better flanker. Honestly, it just takes a little practice but once you've learned how to avoid an enemies attention you should be able to survive just fine.
As for the roleplay aspect of it, monks can be pretty difficult concepts to figure out but I think they can also be very interesting. For example, an evil monk might be devoted to becoming the most elite assassin of all time, a good monk might be dedicated to standing against anyone who oppresses the poor (because they seek to find perfection through self-sacrifice) and a neutral monk might seek to challenge all the most powerful monsters of the land simply to prove to himself that there is no physical challenge that he cannot overcome. Basically the way I see it, I monk just needs to have an ideal that they strive towards in order to find some sort of self-fulfillment.
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I've always found monks to be very effective in melee combat. You just need to master the art of flanking. It doesn't matter how low your AC is, if you know how to avoid taking hits you can deal some excellent damage on distracted enemies, and at level 6 you get improved knockdown which makes you an even better flanker. Honestly, it just takes a little practice but once you've learned how to avoid an enemies attention you should be able to survive just fine.
As for the roleplay aspect of it, monks can be pretty difficult concepts to figure out but I think they can also be very interesting. For example, an evil monk might be devoted to becoming the most elite assassin of all time, a good monk might be dedicated to standing against anyone who oppresses the poor (because they seek to find perfection through self-sacrifice) and a neutral monk might seek to challenge all the most powerful monsters of the land simply to prove to himself that there is no physical challenge that he cannot overcome. Basically the way I see it, I monk just needs to have an ideal that they strive towards in order to find some sort of self-fulfillment.
Now, for a monk, while lawful neccesarily doesn't mean following the law, but your own personal code. Could you portray being good as not neccesarily going out of your way to good things, but refusing to do evil things?
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No.
You forget there's another alignment between Good and evil.
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I think there is more room for creativity for the monk class. Adherents of Shar would make good assassins with focus on stealth (shadowdancer). Monks who use kamas, staff or shurikens would also be unique (fist damage gloves also work with weapons). Since monks are primarily anti-casters, mages would have someone to fear if your monk was an enemy of the Mage Guild.
The mistake is playing a monk like a front liner, trying to maximize damage, but they are best as flankers and support. Dodge, mobility and tumble are great at avoiding AoO (my own character uses this method to great effect). Heal skill is also a useful skill in a party without a cleric.
Sharran robes, pirate boots, mithral kamas, elven cloak, gloves of the long death, and belt of freedom are all good gear to obtain.
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Monk was always to Asian Culture for a more European mid-evil flow that forgotten realms for the most part took. ((that's just me))
Mechinally they are fun ((and don't compare yourself to your ac or whatever if all you care about is tanking making an improve expertise fighter have your 25ac (35 in IE mode) and be done with it.
It bugs me how many people don't understand the difference between a flanker and a tank :S
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@Khamal:
I think there is more room for creativity for the monk class. Adherents of Shar would make good assassins with focus on stealth (shadowdancer). Monks who use kamas, staff or shurikens would also be unique (fist damage gloves also work with weapons). Since monks are primarily anti-casters, mages would have someone to fear if your monk was an enemy of the Mage Guild.
The mistake is playing a monk like a front liner, trying to maximize damage, but they are best as flankers and support. Dodge, mobility and tumble are great at avoiding AoO (my own character uses this method to great effect). Heal skill is also a useful skill in a party without a cleric.
Sharran robes, pirate boots, mithral kamas, elven cloak, gloves of the long death, and belt of freedom are all good gear to obtain.
Wait, wait, wait, did I read that right? The +1 attack +1 damage gloves also work for weapons?
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Take the focus away from your combat effectiveness and start thinking about what your monk does. Jeez.
Success on COA is not about your PvP or even PvM. It's about who you know and what you (plural) do. Sucess is having multiple factions trying to recruit you IG. Not whether you have AC49.
The interesting stuff comes during events. And the DM will adjust the opponenet depending on your ability. If nit's a suicide mission to hell and you have Ac30, the demon prince might hav AB25. If your AC is 45, it will have AB40.
Your mechanical numbers are just that, a number. Get your hp's over 15, so a casual arrow doesn kill you and the rst is gravy.
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Take the focus away from your combat effectiveness and start thinking about what your monk does. Jeez.
Success on COA is not about your PvP or even PvM. It's about who you know and what you (plural) do. Sucess is having multiple factions trying to recruit you IG. Not whether you have AC49.
The interesting stuff comes during events. And the DM will adjust the opponenet depending on your ability. If nit's a suicide mission to hell and you have Ac30, the demon prince might hav AB25. If your AC is 45, it will have AB40.
Your mechanical numbers are just that, a number. Get your hp's over 15, so a casual arrow doesn kill you and the rst is gravy.
What if everyone has AC 45 and you have AC 30, though?
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Then you let those guys take the monsters attention. Personally I've found that 23 AC unbuffed is more then enough for any quest up to level 7 for a frontliner character. Throw in expertise and you can pretty much survive any encounter.
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Any expertise or power attack sounds like a useless feat for a monk. Like I said, I find it around level 8 that a monk can even attempt to go into melle because that's when they have their abilities and the damage roll and stuff that's decent to good. Thing is, monsters at that level and higher will hit you almost no matter your ac and you'll almost nearly never hit anything as the fighter who had 5 more AB then you does. Wizards have awesome spells and spell penetration at that level and even the low AB rouge hits better because of his sneak attack which negates dodge and dex AC bonuses.
It's no secret that monks have sucked mechanically in combat on CoA just because of the lower level range average on the server. Unless of course you drink potions and get buffed but then again, who sucks when they drink potions and get buffs? No one.
Playing the RP aspect of a monk on CoA isn't hard, it's the mechanical ability of a monk which is harder IMO. As I've said earlier, I'd like to play a monk that doesn't using a crossbow as support for the first 7 levels of his life.
Going crossclass for a monk is bad, but why not go for atleast 1 level of rogue? You get sneak so you can actually hit better and deal more damage as a flanker, which monks are suppose to play as right?
I'm not looking for the perfect max/min mechanical build for a monk, I'm just looking how to survive until level 8 as a monk without using ranged weapons 90% of the time. I mean, I'm looking at it and it seems rouge beats monk in all RP categories and in useful skills as well as the ability to be a flanker. Why play monk at all?