High Level Quests and Doing It Hard Core
-
Only 1/5 last chars has made it to lvl 7 and not for that many hours. I try doing them whilei can
-
Quests bore me, generally.
I'd much rather spend my time online meeting people, RPing, plotting and doing stuff that isn't ''click & point at enemy'' and hope to get XP on an odd DM event.
-
Something that might be seriously attractive for higher level quests is a series of "consumables" salesmen that are available during or at the end of the quest that have somewhat lower costs than the regular merchants. Some of these salesmen might be the quest giver or might be a character found In a side Quest, or might even be a Pool or Altar or such, to give more flavour. In some quests, the Boss might "Negociate" with the party. "I'll let you have some of my "stuff" at a discount if you leave me alone." providing an opportunity for roleplay and conflicting needs. The party needs supplies cheaply, but some in the party argue that they took the quest, they should complete it for honour, others having a purely mercenary outlook - This bloke's offering us more than the quest giver. lets do it!
For example, the Gypsy Healer could, having given a reward, offer to sell healing draughts at a discount as thanks for saving her band of gypsies. The wizard in Scrambled Eggs could offer a small selection the more unusual wand types at prices a little higher than a PC wand crafter could sell them for and make a reasonable profit. Dante could offer potions such as entropic shield etc after Withering Heights; a quest that is notorious for sucking a player dry of consumables, but still one of my favorites. This Salesman outlook is already offered by Kanthea and many people take advantage of it, even to the point of gathering a party to do the quest because she has something they want to purchase.
The quest designers could look at what sort of consumables are used up and offer something different, so that you're not directly compensated for your loss of consumables but you are able to stock up on something that might be valuable for a different quest. Quest "A" is a source of consumables that would be very valuable on Quest "B" that might be a source of consumables for Quest "C". These consumables, in general, would not be the standard potions or wands but things that are less commonly used at prices that encourage a broader selection to be carried by the wiser adventurer.
The advantage of putting a Consummables Salesman at the end rather than a unique items salesman is that you have a reason to go back again and again to aid the quest giver, if only to source consumables. Once you have the Robe of X from Kanthea, you have no need to return to buy it again.
-
Being Level 11 the vast majority of quests are out of my reach. However when there is a quest opportunity there are two things that could possible stop myself.
-
Some very important Plot related meeting/scene.
-
Some incredible passive RP.
From the OOC perspective though, the reason why I would not go for a quest is due to, most often, having an inadequate group. Most high level quests are near impossible to complete in "irregular" groups, without taking away some substantial resources/money, and even then you do not have a guarantee that everybody will get out unscathed.
On the other hand, I sometimes enjoy a challenge when there are DM events for example, and often take it to the front. Maybe because unlike in Scripted quests during a DM event I do not know what will show up against me and I act as my character would. Meanwhile in a Scripted Quest I can predict what will happen, comparing the possible strength of spawns to my current group.
-
-
Something that might be seriously attractive for higher level quests is a series of "consumables" salesmen that are available during or at the end of the quest that have somewhat lower costs than the regular merchants. Some of these salesmen might be the quest giver or might be a character found In a side Quest, or might even be a Pool or Altar or such, to give more flavour. In some quests, the Boss might "Negociate" with the party. "I'll let you have some of my "stuff" at a discount if you leave me alone." providing an opportunity for roleplay and conflicting needs. The party needs supplies cheaply, but some in the party argue that they took the quest, they should complete it for honour, others having a purely mercenary outlook - This bloke's offering us more than the quest giver. lets do it!
The advantage of putting a Consummables Salesman at the end rather than a unique items salesman is that you have a reason to go back again and again to aid the quest giver, if only to source consumables. Once you have the Robe of X from Kanthea, you have no need to return to buy it again.
@Handel:
posted about forty minutes before the above post "]TBH, I've thought lately that random treasure treasure pales in comparison to a quest-basis limited table purchase like the pathfinder society system. One could purchase items from a chart from the goods at the end (not exclusive to quest reward gold either). They might actually be significantly cheaper from the quest or may not even be items (They also would be unsellable to merchants, of course).
It would solve:
-Grinding needed for potion brew recipes.
-Time sink for distributing loot on scripted quests gone.
-Less randomness in just getting weapons/gear that a character is proficient in.
-System would benefit those who go on a variety of quests.
-Level 7 that had gone to a bunch of quests beforehand and then goes to one or two 7-12 quests is going to be better equipped and balanced in their arsenal than the level 9 that farms one quest a lot of times.Pretty much the same idea.
-
My reasons are much the same.
- getting to level 7 means I've been around long enough to spend most of my time doing RP related things.
- I don't often play straight up adventurers, so once established in a few plots, seems odd to break and go 'helping a local farmer'.
- I don't enjoy questing due to the fact that mechanically, I find NWN a boring pointy clicky game of dullness.
- My internet connection is rubbish, so quests are often laggy, confusing and deadly.
-
One other point is that, for the ones I know, high-level quests tend to be long to very long (more than 1h30). Add to this the time needed to set the group up and get going, and the aftermath, and you go above 2 hours, which is more time than I usually have.
-
I think it might be a few simple factors…
High level = Typicaly less questing time, becuse lots of time is spent on ploting.
High level = More likely to have serous foes, less people to quest with
High level = smaller numbers and important roles may be missing
Min level for quest = less likey to do becuse danger. Basicly for a 1-5 quest. A team of four level ones are going to have a harder time the four level fives.
I know most of the time May done high level quests, she done it becuse the front liners for the quest have been safely within the level range.
Personaly I like to see more 5-10 quests to let the mid levels and high levels interact more.
-
So if i'm a level 1 i should be less involved in a plot then a level 10?
-
For me is that in the 7-12 quests they are more to 9-12 lvl characters if you can have one maybe two between 7 and 8 lvls if you have too many in the bottom of the range you will likely end up with lots of deads if not a Party kill, a example of this i got a team to do the vampire quest we where 2 7th, 3 in 8th and 2 in 9th for a total of 7 players and there are spots where you get a swarm of spawns so some pass the liners to hit the the back of the line and they hit too hard to be able to save who they got, 4 died.
And most of the high lvl quests give a good gold, xp relation but could receive a serious improve in the loot part.
Kanthea is one of them, there is a big chance of death in the last cave fighting the ancient bear and the quest is a 400 coins reward with no loot, taking off the expenses you probably end up likely with less 200 profit. I have end it 2 times with less then when i made it.
-
It's very simple the quest system is balanced for optimal parties if you don't have one then it's almost impossible to make a profit.
Also due to the server being so spread out over dozens of factions all hating each other getting a group that can work together is so much harder. -
For me is that in the 7-12 quests they are more to 9-12 lvl characters if you can have one maybe two between 7 and 8 lvls if you have too many in the bottom of the range you will likely end up with lots of deads if not a Party kill, a example of this i got a team to do the vampire quest we where 2 7th, 3 in 8th and 2 in 9th for a total of 7 players and there are spots where you get a swarm of spawns so some pass the liners to hit the the back of the line and they hit too hard to be able to save who they got, 4 died.
And most of the high lvl quests give a good gold, xp relation but could receive a serious improve in the loot part.
Kanthea is one of them, there is a big chance of death in the last cave fighting the ancient bear and the quest is a 400 coins reward with no loot, taking off the expenses you probably end up likely with less 200 profit. I have end it 2 times with less then when i made it.
On the flip side the quest does have a shop with stuff that rocks. :D
-
@Amy:
It's very simple the quest system is balanced for optimal parties if you don't have one then it's almost impossible to make a profit.
Also due to the server being so spread out over dozens of factions all hating each other getting a group that can work together is so much harder.Actually, the quest system isn't balanced for optimal parties. All the high level quests have had their challenge level in that regard reduced over a year ago. People still aren't trying them.
We have several high level quests, Scrambled Eggs (Githyanki), Slums Tower, Frost Giants, Kanthea (sort of high level), Lost Pilgrims, Bresk (more mid honestly, but only high levels tend to try it).
People aren't really being specific. What I'm getting is lots of "at high levels you gain XP more slowly, making death in general scarier". I don't see what we can do about that, any suggestions? Why is death at level 10 scarier than death at level 5? You lose the same proportion of XP. Is it because the recovery takes longer, since you don't gain XP as quickly after level 7?
Kanthea could likely use a bit more loot obviously, but and I stress this, that is the MOST often done of these quests. So I don't think lack of loot is really the problem. Lost Pilgrims, which gives the MOST loot is never done at all.
-
Usually, and this isn't everyone, but the higher the level the more apprehensive a player will be about certain quests due to their percieved difficulty and the fear that they may well die and loose XP, loot and what-have-you. Because quite frankly, levels do matter because they do influence player-to-player interactions whether one likes it or not.
-
We have several high level quests, Scrambled Eggs (Githyanki), Slums Tower, Frost Giants, Kanthea (sort of high level), Lost Pilgrims, Bresk (more mid honestly, but only high levels tend to try it).
Scrambled eggs. Not done in along time due to bad experiences
Slums tower is extremely hard without a certain class along.
Frost Giants i belive my son does this one from time to time and there are nolonger dire polar bears or slayliving shamans there so should be alot easyer these days but it's still hard hitting and you need a good group for it.(as in some "good"fighter types)
Kanthea's is the easy option as the threats are easy to overcome compared to the others.
Pilgrims ive not done in years but if you didn't have a certain class then it was a no go i presume that hasent changed.
Bresk if you can fight past the first spawns in the tower then it's fairly easy quest with only the boss and one type of monster worthy of fearing.
Also as im sure you are aware the quests you have named with the exception of pilgrims have monsters that tend to be hard hitters and even the pilgrims monsters can do alot of damage pretty quickly.People aren't really being specific. What I'm getting is lots of "at high levels you gain XP more slowly, making death in general scarier". I don't see what we can do about that, any suggestions? Why is death at level 10 scarier than death at level 5? You lose the same proportion of XP. Is it because the recovery takes longer, since you don't gain XP as quickly after level 7?
Basicly you answered your own question yes it's more scary because if you die at level 10 it takes 6 weeks to get the xp back,where as at level 5 it will take you a few days to get it back.
-
If DMs are lame, please don't play here.
-
I find that the main reason that i have not gone on many high level quests with my current character is that it is hard to go on any quest where you are reliant on people you dont know IC.
This is moderated somewhat if you 'trust' the player OOC, but even so you cannot realistically go to a sending by Mr. Evil if you are a good aligned character and vica versa.
The antagonism between the factions seems to be the greatest i have seen in my time here, with it almost impossible for some factions even to call a truce and only insult one another for the period of a quest. The net result is that there are less people available for quests, and when the number is also reduced due to the level requirements it is too hard to gather a party.
The fear of death doesnt deter me, or the cost of consumables etc, but the ic justification to go along with group X to do quest Y is sometimes hard to achieve.
-
I havn't been doing them cause I choose not to quest mostly. Did the Frost gaint quest just awhile ago, but before that my last quest was at least 3 months ago. For me, I've too many personal plots/goals to focus on. That and my character isn't really combat capable at the moment.
I have noticed that on High level quests is hard to balance out expenses vs end profit. The characters who do the fighting on the quest, use so many potions/wands, yet also die when they don't because they are trying to make a profit from the quest too by saving.
I find gold more important (Hiring people, paying people for helping, ectect), so if theres no profit on a quest OOCly, not gonna do it. I don't much care for XP.
Thats my opinion, although I shouldn't really have one since I don't much quest period!
-
Whether they be high level or low level, if you think that a quest is too hard and/or doesn't give enough reward post in the suggestions forums saying so, preferably with a bit of detail that might help DMs try to remedy the situation. Otherwise, chances are it won't change because no-one knows that it needs changing. I'll repeat what I said in another thread, quests aren't put it to be a tax on loot or levels but it's impossible to balance things completely without live testing and DMs can't spend all their time watching players quest, we need a bit of help from players.
-
Is it because the recovery takes longer, since you don't gain XP as quickly after level 7?
I believe you have it here. But I'm not sure what the solution is. Perhaps a greater amount of XP to tempt people into the higher quests so that they know that if they die, it won't be 7-8 weeks before they recover back to that level 10. For me, I can get to level 7 in a week or two, easy. Getting from 7-8 will likely be 2-4 weeks and then it is likely to be a month or two to get to level 9. I have never reached level 10 because of dying on scripted quests. (Perhaps I should stop doing scripted quests when I reach level 9?)
However, if you increase the XP on these quests, some people will gain significant levels because they play more and play quests more. Will this be a problem for plots? Probably not as DMs have proven to be able to manage this situation well enough. This server used to have characters above level 13, it may not be such a problem to have that again.