Death penalty.
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Walk, not run, into the monster, keep your AC high as much as possible, request as many buffs as possible. If you get targeted and your AC is low or you are too hurt and nobody is healing you and it'd be a bad situation to heal yourself, run away and let someone else tank the monster as you recover.
Never fight while more than "Barely Injured", it's just begging for trouble. Try to keep Endure Elements on always, it lasts forever so it's not a big deal and it might just save you from surprise fireballs and melf's acid arrow spam.
And the most important rule, invest in Blur potions, they're wonderful.
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All I'd add to Jasede's post is that it is absolutely fine to walk away from a fight you may not win. If you're on the road and find a spawn of Gypsies … you do not have to fight them. Sneak by, drink an invis potion, find another route ...
Never run to an opponent, always walk when you get close. Never run from an opponent either, unless you have points invested in tumble - walk away (but not backwards, that'll get you in trouble).
And...
Know your place in the party. This is almost certainly the key survival factor.
If you're an archer with healing wands … sometimes you will need to stop firing to use those wands on those full plated monkeys in front of you. If they fall, most likely you will as well. And NEVER fire at an enemy until the heavy armour has attacked first; if you do, it's a certain way to get all those enemies focused directly on you and you will suffer because of it.
If you're an archer with sneak attacks, then the above certainly applies. But learn as quickly as you can what the optimum firing distance is - the maximum you can get sneak damage from vs. the reach of that Ogre Chieftain with the ten foot long double axe. You're there for the sneak damage but you need space so if that Ogre Chieftain breaks from the fighters even for a moment, you have time to move away before you're dead.
If you're a duel wielding ranger in light or medium armour, let the heavy armour attack first THEN you join in when the enemy's attention is focused somewhere else. Move in but don't attack first.
Clerics typically should do the same but also be ready to step away from the fight to heal and/or buff their comrades. Your puny mace swinging is nowhere near as valuable as getting that barbarian up from Badly Wounded or getting the (unlucky) Wizard hit by Hold Person un-paralysed.
If you're a heavy armour wearing fighter then let the scouts do their job. Do not travel to closely to them and when they come back, give them time to type their report before you move forward. Scouts will also check the flanks as well as in front so allow time for that.
Wizards need to stay at the back. I have seen plenty of Wizards/Sorcs not pay proper attention to their surroundings and suddenly they've got an Orc Champion looking to insert a large axe into their liver - this is bad news for everyone since it usually means a fighter has to break off from the front line and do his best to save his comrade. If someone wants a buff while not in combat, they can come to you. In combat, you walk to your comrade and cast from the maximum possible distance.
Consumables are there to be consumed. That potion of blur is useless lying on your corpse if you're in the fugue. Yes, they're expensive but dying is usually more so.
And...
If you're collecting loot on a quest, do NOT be afraid to hand out potions during the quest itself. That Potion of Cure Serious Wounds? Hand it straight to the Full Plate frontliner - it may end up saving everyone's life and he's probably already earned it. I recently went on the Bresk Vampire quest and handed out all the heal/buff potions I found to the frontliners and it made everything surprisingly easier for all involved.
Find magical fire arrows? Don't have the Mage hold onto them, hand them to your sneak damage dealing rogue archer. You can sort out whatever is left later. -
Never run to an opponent, always walk when you get close. Never run from an opponent either, unless you have points invested in tumble - walk away (but not backwards, that'll get you in trouble).
No, this is an exploit too. You don't "walk" away from a monster trying to kill you in real life. You run like hell.
The sole exception is if the monster is currently focusing its attacks on someone else (ie you were in melee but flanking it). Otherwise, you're exploiting to avoid an AoO.
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That's some seriously good advice right there!
Here's one last thing I can think of that definitely makes a lot of difference: surround yourselves with friends. Make friends IC. Be it your evil associates or your goodly fellow fighters, make friends! Friends will go out of their way to heal and protect you when strangers would not. Also, working as a team that knows another is a lot safer (and faster, and that matters to us dirty powerquesters! :) )
And, if you're a wizard, and you know any bard who is making healing wands, for god's sake, buy a dozen and heal your fellow man while invisible if the situation demands it! You're not just there to cast buffs and plink away with a crossbow, after all.
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Never run to an opponent, always walk when you get close. Never run from an opponent either, unless you have points invested in tumble - walk away (but not backwards, that'll get you in trouble).
No, this is an exploit too. You don't "walk" away from a monster trying to kill you in real life. You run like hell.
The sole exception is if the monster is currently focusing its attacks on someone else (ie you were in melee but flanking it). Otherwise, you're exploiting to avoid an AoO.
I disagree. In RL you dont turn your back and run, you retreat defensively backwards, and then run when disengaged.
In NWN that is done by walking normally (not backwards) and then running when out of melee.Why should this be a exploit ? Why would'nt you walk away with your defences up - why should you run and give a AoO?
If i recall, according to standard DnD combat, in that situation, where you take a partial move to disengage, you dont get AoO'd. if the enemy initiative is higher, he attacks, normally before you move away.
If yours is higher, you move away - he can then either let you leave, or follow and attack - and in doing so, might expose himself to AoO's by moving through squares threatened by the rest of your line.Isnt that excatly what is happening in NWN ?
Again, to stress, we are talking walk normally, not the exploitive method.
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I think games has a point. There's a difference between "I need to retreat for now, so I can heal and re-enter combat" and "OMG, we're all gunna die!!!!Run for your life!". The second one is best shown by people who get AoO on them by being forced to run away from fear effects.
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A tactic i found works well is for an armored priest to stick like glue close to a front line fighter, flanking for him.
If needed you are close enough to heal or buff him quickly while supporting and dealing some damage as well. A fighter/priests pair can do massive damage by working as a self suporting unit. Stress teamwork here.
This allows the fighter to keep fighting while you heal him from close by. The priest needs to be willing to sacrifice some of his better buffs to the fighter. As it's the fighter who's doing the most damage.
A wizard can also support a fighter this way but would perhaps need to remain further back with wands and spells unless he is able to take some hits.
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I know jack about game mechanics, but in a self defense situation you create distance without turning your back on your opponent. I've taught enough self defense courses to lend that much credibility to what Games put forth. I've also learned that you don't argue with the Moloch, so there you go. I think the dm's will have a feel for if a person is exploiting or executing a tactical retreat.
One the subject of the death penalty, I really can't complain to much about the way it is currently configured. It used to be more harsh than it is now. I've noticed as the player base matures, or as the player base has become more experienced, the server has gotten progressively harder to survive. While the death exp lose is less now, Survivability for the unskilled is way down. The server is simply harder to navigate now in my opinion. Instead of harder, perhaps I should say, "more challenging". It makes sense that with a game this old, and with a group like ours where some of us have been at it for years, there would have to be some increased difficulty. I really feel sorry for people who come to the server green now though. I took a couple new folks on a quest recently and I could tell that they were a bit amazed by how hard it was.
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Never run to an opponent, always walk when you get close. Never run from an opponent either, unless you have points invested in tumble - walk away (but not backwards, that'll get you in trouble).
No, this is an exploit too. You don't "walk" away from a monster trying to kill you in real life. You run like hell.
The sole exception is if the monster is currently focusing its attacks on someone else (ie you were in melee but flanking it). Otherwise, you're exploiting to avoid an AoO.
If that's the rule on CoA so be it, but DnD wise it's as follows:
WithdrawWithdrawing from melee combat is a full-round action. When you withdraw, you can move up to double your speed. The square you start out in is not considered threatened by any opponent you can see, and therefore visible enemies do not get attacks of opportunity against you when you move from that square. (Invisible enemies still get attacks of opportunity against you, and you can’t withdraw from combat if you’re blinded.) You can’t take a 5-foot step during the same round in which you withdraw.
If, during the process of withdrawing, you move out of a threatened square (other than the one you started in), enemies get attacks of opportunity as normal.
You may not withdraw using a form of movement for which you don’t have a listed speed.
Note that despite the name of this action, you don’t actually have to leave combat entirely.
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Never run to an opponent, always walk when you get close. Never run from an opponent either, unless you have points invested in tumble - walk away (but not backwards, that'll get you in trouble).
No, this is an exploit too. You don't "walk" away from a monster trying to kill you in real life. You run like hell.
The sole exception is if the monster is currently focusing its attacks on someone else (ie you were in melee but flanking it). Otherwise, you're exploiting to avoid an AoO.
In addition to the other examples given, there's also the 5ft step in PnP that does not provoke AoO. I'm no expert in martial arts, but from what I've learned with practicing with a hand and a half, you can easily step back without turning your back to your opponent and still keep your guard up.
I've always presumed that the "don't walk backwards" applies to situations where you are fighting the monster alone, and attempt to escape by walking backwards and thus avoiding attacks (which is exploit) as opposed to actually fighting the monster -with- someone else. Tap the backwards button once or twice, and the monster usually refocuses it's attacks on the other person (which makes sense, since if it did not, and instead followed you, it would basically leave itself open for your friend). For example, to disengage, drink a potion, and then get back into the fray.
Is there a misunderstanding in here, or is the above situation really an exploit?
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We've explained this so many times, I think its almost insane people are still not getting it!
You can disengage in a fight if the monster is focused on other PCs by walking away to avoid the AoO. If the monster though chooses to follow you, you should stop walking and start running. If you keep walking, it is now an exploit.
If the monster is focused on you, then "walking" away causes the monster to lose an AoO it should have (because you're the only person its fighting) and you should run away because you can't "strategically withdraw" from something that is focused exclusively on you. If you fight a monster alone, and keep "walking" its an exploit.
The easy, peasy rule of thumb. If the monster is following you while you try to disengage, start running or keep fighting.
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We've explained this so many times, I think its almost insane people are still not getting it!
You can disengage in a fight if the monster is focused on other PCs by walking away to avoid the AoO. If the monster though chooses to follow you, you should stop walking and start running. If you keep walking, it is now an exploit.
If the monster is focused on you, then "walking" away causes the monster to lose an AoO it should have (because you're the only person its fighting) and you should run away because you can't "strategically withdraw" from something that is focused exclusively on you. If you fight a monster alone, and keep "walking" its an exploit.
The easy, peasy rule of thumb. If the monster is following you while you try to disengage, start running or keep fighting.
Not sure it gets more clearer then that. Thanks Moloch.
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so Made seperate thread for Withdrawing:
/topic/496
so we can take about death here -
One the subject of the death penalty, I really can't complain to much about the way it is currently configured. It used to be more harsh than it is now. I've noticed as the player base matures, or as the player base has become more experienced, the server has gotten progressively harder to survive. While the death exp lose is less now, Survivability for the unskilled is way down. The server is simply harder to navigate now in my opinion. Instead of harder, perhaps I should say, "more challenging". It makes sense that with a game this old, and with a group like ours where some of us have been at it for years, there would have to be some increased difficulty. I really feel sorry for people who come to the server green now though. I took a couple new folks on a quest recently and I could tell that they were a bit amazed by how hard it was.
I have to say as a new player to the server I've wanted to throw my computer out of the window a few times. After working very hard to get my first few characters to 3rd lv only to be devistated in Frin's basement and lose those levels I found the XP hit harsh at first. After I calmed down a bit I was less upset about the XP hit than I was at the sheer difficulty for new players. I'm ok with the XP hit, but there is a point to be made here about the harshness of the server on new players. Yes there are some easy quests, but it can be overwhelming for a new player. If I'd not met some very nice players from the start who increased my odds of survivabilty I'd probobly not be playing the game anymore. I think we all know new players are the lifeblood of games like this. without them things will eventually get stale and even long-term players may lose interest, killing the server.
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One the subject of the death penalty, I really can't complain to much about the way it is currently configured. It used to be more harsh than it is now. I've noticed as the player base matures, or as the player base has become more experienced, the server has gotten progressively harder to survive. While the death exp lose is less now, Survivability for the unskilled is way down. The server is simply harder to navigate now in my opinion. Instead of harder, perhaps I should say, "more challenging". It makes sense that with a game this old, and with a group like ours where some of us have been at it for years, there would have to be some increased difficulty. I really feel sorry for people who come to the server green now though. I took a couple new folks on a quest recently and I could tell that they were a bit amazed by how hard it was.
I have to say as a new player to the server I've wanted to throw my computer out of the window a few times. After working very hard to get my first few characters to 3rd lv only to be devistated in Frin's basement and lose those levels I found the XP hit harsh at first. After I calmed down a bit I was less upset about the XP hit than I was at the sheer difficulty for new players. I'm ok with the XP hit, but there is a point to be made here about the harshness of the server on new players. Yes there are some easy quests, but it can be overwhelming for a new player. If I'd not met some very nice players from the start who increased my odds of survivabilty I'd probobly not be playing the game anymore. I think we all know new players are the lifeblood of games like this. without them things will eventually get stale and even long-term players may lose interest, killing the server.
It's not really the death penalty it is more like the lack of help for low level characters and advice at times.
Although sometimes newbies need to ask or sometimes they are just being idiots/ADD and run off to do questing when someone is trying to help them. They of course die and then complain about such penalties.
This doesn't help that some players/pcs don't sometimes display examples of proper survival, piling up coin from lowbie quests without using any healing.
What helps:
Barkskin
Buffs from NPC to save on spells and consumables.
People willing to stick around for more quests.
Medicine Bags, Healing Kits, with decent healer.
Patience in waiting for people to finish preparing.
Actually understanding what your party can do outside of "I AM A WIZARD, etc"
Not AFKing in quests.Healing wands (Optional)
Casted Lesser Restoration (Optional)
Bard with healing song (Optional) -
The harsh death penalty system (Yes I know it was even harsher before) slowly kills the server imo (besides NWN dying away). I know several people who quit, or join but can't really get into the server and end up leaving for something else, because of it. I dont really see what it adds t the server at all, except a -lot- of frustration.
Death is supposed to be feared, and have impact? Sure, I agree. But there has to be a balance between feeling like you've been wasting your time and this. There has to be some other way around this, other than stripping the players of their hard earned xp?
And also, there has to be some other creative way of keeping the average level on the server down? I've adapted to the rather frustrating death penalty system (like everyone else here has had to) but to me it's still the part of the server that I think is the most flawed.
And yes I know, appriciate the RP, don't mind dropping two levels making the latest 10 hours you spent questing meaningless, and so on… It's a way to try and remedy the feeling of "wasting my time" that the death penalty system brings, but sometives the negatives outwieght the positives (RP) by far.
Okay I wrote this on the top of my head, just something I've been thinking about and I felt like sharing my opinion :D
/Rant
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Rant
It's been said that the death penalty used to be much more harsh, but I agree that it is still. Having experienced it with several characters at different parts of their respective journeys, it will certainly take the wind out of your sails.
Yes, it's disheartening when a death sidetracks you, but if it upsets you then it's probably the best time to step back and take a break. Even if it's just for a few hours, I promise the detachment will make you feel infinitely better. If it does not, Qu'Larq will give you a magic staff. Only while supplies last. Qu'Larq © is the property of New Kilgrave.
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I feel sorry for the people who have a hard time grasping the mechanics and will never ever feel the awesome that is to be LEVUL TIN.
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Personally I think everytime there is a interested but confused newbie a bunch of players (like 3+) should try and log off their main to help the new person and tell them the rules and expectations instead of letting people out to dry. Or even not just new people but new characters, even. Lowbie stuff sometimes gets stale because of the short durations of casted spells means rushing a little bit. Leads to burnout imo.
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The harsh death penalty system (Yes I know it was even harsher before) slowly kills the server imo (besides NWN dying away). I know several people who quit, or join but can't really get into the server and end up leaving for something else, because of it. I dont really see what it adds t the server at all, except a -lot- of frustration.
Death is supposed to be feared, and have impact? Sure, I agree. But there has to be a balance between feeling like you've been wasting your time and this. There has to be some other way around this, other than stripping the players of their hard earned xp?
And also, there has to be some other creative way of keeping the average level on the server down? I've adapted to the rather frustrating death penalty system (like everyone else here has had to) but to me it's still the part of the server that I think is the most flawed.
And yes I know, appriciate the RP, don't mind dropping two levels making the latest 10 hours you spent questing meaningless, and so on… It's a way to try and remedy the feeling of "wasting my time" that the death penalty system brings, but sometives the negatives outwieght the positives (RP) by far.
Okay I wrote this on the top of my head, just something I've been thinking about and I felt like sharing my opinion :D
/Rant
People come and go, NWN is a really old game now, that's just how it is. There are enough new people, however, coming into the game to keep things ticking over (there were 47 people online at one point yesterday evening)
Arabel isn't for everyone, at the end of the day, and that's what makes it awesome.