Intrigue and Adventure VS CoA Sims
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Great thread! I agree.
Perhaps something that some players of goodly characters like to experience is a feeling of actively protecting someone with their hero - hence the wish for refugee-centers? Maybe have another scripted quest or two where the PCs have to protect some NPC commoners from attack?
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Great thread! I agree.
Perhaps something that some players of goodly characters like to experience is a feeling of actively protecting someone with their hero - hence the wish for refugee-centers? Maybe have another scripted quest or two where the PCs have to protect some NPC commoners from attack?
I want to do one of those actually.
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So, if I read correctly
Trusty scout X decides, I don't know what is beyond Eveningstar, so he makes a sending to get a small party of three or four other like minded adventures and sets to EXPLORE.
He then sends a message on the DM channel "/DM Scout X and party head off beyond Eveningstar to find what they can find, mapping as they go and looking for interesting things having never been there before." This might get a response back from a DM who watches them for a bit and decides to make life interesting for them, giving them a plot hook or just dropping a few spawns down. Or, no DM available, the party wanders for a bit having fun and come home, knowing a bit more about what is beyond Eveningstar.
Is this likely to get a response from a DM if one is available, or is something more needed to attract a DM's interest? If there is no obvious DM activity, should the scout continue to send the odd message on the DM channel every so often (10 minutes, half an hour, never again?.) Eliphas makes a good point that folks maybe scared of asking for DM involvement in their thing. I, for one, have no idea what would be regarding as perstering and what would be regarded as reasonable commentry on an exploration/player quest to garner DM interest.
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Speaking only for myself, I typically respond to those with DM attention if I'm not doing something else.
You'ld be surprised at how often DMs log in, and see nothing going on but the same old quests and market sitting, and then log out because there was nothing to do.
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You'ld be surprised at how often DMs log in, and see nothing going on but the same old quests and market sitting, and then log out because there was nothing to do.
This is true. I rarely go and spice quests unless they are low level ones for newbies and shizzle.
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I love the basis of this thread. I love that the DMs are willing to practically spell out, word for word, what a player can do to get their attention. However, I'd hope that players are willing to do these things for the sake of doing them rather than doing them with the thinking of "Hey! This should get me a DM quest!" or the like.
I've enjoyed what I've seen over the past few days in people getting out more, doing a bit more "adventuring" for the sake of adventuring. It allows characters to interact in new settings, overhear plot hooks they might not otherwise be privy to, or to walk into traps/set traps. I just hope it's a trend that continues because of the possibilities it presents, rather than fishing for DM involvement. Don't get me wrong, I think DM involvement is great. You get to flesh your characters and portray parts of their personality that are hard to do when facing a scripted NPC.
On that note, it never hurts to toss the DMs an ingame tell stating what your doing and why. I believe short and precise tell is best. Makes it easy to read. I'd also like to point out that what Moloch has laid out can be applied to static quests as well. If you have a dynamic group that seems to be playing off of each other very well in terms of RP (not mechanically) then toss out a tell. I can't speak for the DMs, but I imagine added a bit of flavor or spice to a scripted quest doesn't take much.
For example, let's say you've gather a couple people for the Lady's Challenge quest (I'm using this because it's a very well known, very heavily done and quick quest). The characters are playing well off of each other, engaging in conversations and taking things a bit further than a mad rush through some crypts, laying waste to all the undead that dare oppose them. You might get a bit more out of a certain Evil Priest, a bit of added, personalized dialogue. Perhaps a monologue regarding his evil plans, clues on where to find him, or maybe he'll switch things up a bit… summoning you out, into his true base for a bit more of a showdown before running away, tail tucked.
I'm beginning to ramble, so I'll stop now. Hopefully I was able to get what I was trying to say across.
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Noctem:
Wrong quest there my friend. You detailed the quest known as Tymora Shrine.
I miss the days you could just say "Were gonna do Parners, wanna come?"
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Well ive not been ig for about a year (boo hiss) but i will back in a couple of weeks though i carnt comment on what the server is like at the moment.But one thing i do remember is the trolls blood hunt this was a perfect example of someone having an idea and getting players involved in it by making a contest outta of it.The best thing about this was that a bunch of chars who might not usually quest together due to lvls where able to get out of the city and explore even if it ment running into a landshark or two.It was a great way to rp with other people rather than the usual questing rp and as a noob at the time it helped my own rp skills enhance just by watching the more experienced rpers do it.Most of the time not much happened which imo is how it should be but now and then a dm would get involved and things would heat up.I think basiclly what i'm trying to get across is that far too many players covert dm attention rather than focusing on the fun from plain old adventuring which more than likely will bring you that fun and sometimes very scary dm attention you seek.
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Well in a few words I have to agree, most of the fun on the server is based on those two concepts: adventure and intrigue.
I hope that the DMs will continue to spice our daily life with much of both!
Koskov.
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I have found that the "hiring bodyguard" route works very well for this type of stuff, and helps to encompass players who might not be interested (or realized they were interested) in your noble and or wicked plans or plots.
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I made this sticky since I keep referring players to seek out Adventure and Intrigue and got tired of hunting down this thread.
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Everyone keeps talking about how they fight for DM attention,you can have mine…I can only be a talking dog so many times.
Seriously though,
People in this thread need to understand the difference between so called "Sims" and Social RP.Social RP is talking to fellow characters, If you think it is boring...it is pretty much the only difference between CoA and "Johns Questing Server & Level Builder"
What you fellows seem to dub as CoA Sims on the other hands seems to nearly always refer to Players wishing to modify the game world in order to carve them a niche. Could this be a subconscious call for attention "Look at me,I built a Refugee Camp!" or is it simply what a few people though would be cool to do while they wait for their Journal reset.
I love Social RP, and I vry rarely play more than one quest in a row. I guess it comes from other MMO roleplaying, where the game either sucked, but the RP was awesome (Star Wars: Galaxies) or I got into RP after I had already done mostly everything.
/waffleonmode off
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I would like to make one comment about "CoA Sims"
There is ONE character type that should be the center of story telling, entertaning, and keeping the market sitters awake. And that is the Bard.
Making a bard that never sings, never tells stories, and uses the "Roll Perform Skill Check" and considers that entertainment should be tossed in the tavern and forced to come up with something original. Or maybe just cut, copy and paste a really good song some other player made (shameless plug).
Oh. And CoA Sims should include plotters who only know how to plot. Coming up with plans is great. And wispering secrets is necissary. But sitting around waiting for something to happen… is boring for the rest of us.
Great people do great things. Get out into the world and DO SOMETHING!
And then let the bards make a song out of it later. (make sure they don't just roll dice for the song, either!)
The worst curse on CoA is to have someone say "Who was your previous character? Him? Never heard the name before. Did I ever interact with that character? I can't remember...."
Do something wild and amazing. I will love you for it!
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It all depends on what your going for.
If your going on pen and paper then it's not the players responsibilty to come up with their own things to do, they just enchance and build on what the DM's create (the world and stories).
And if you want to let them build their own stories then let them. If the only thing you get is people wanting to build walls, or shelters then that's what you get.
I've never played an RPG where someone didn't create the original story and in my experiences it's always been the DM.
Being a DM=90% of the work + the satisfaction at the end of a great story
Being a player=25% of the work + the fun of adding your own little twist to the story that's happening around you.
Or not, just my opinion and experiences, hopefully no one takes this personally -
What i have noticed is more people were going on the CoA sims route during the civil war and i noticed like when we tried cleaning up Central the Dm's threw some adventure in there. That i liked but i would've prefered the Players doing that cause if the DM's were wanting to they could've just sat there and did what needed to be done and i woud've found it more boring then one of the old trials (specifically standing guard during those trials XD). But i have noticed is more people now are doing the adventure route. I especially enjoyed a DM quest i got to go on just for patrolling the sewers. I think its people expect a DM to pop on everytime they leave the city on a spur of the moment trip and make it a super BA experience. I remember on drago a super BA experience was just going to the mountains hunting. No DM involved just players. What i am trying to get at is people Revert to CoA sims because they think its the DM's job to provide every character with adventure.
So basically don't expect the DM's to make every adventure. I enjoy just running out into the mountains or woods hunting. Always fun and sometimes the DM's -will- surprise you.
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It all depends on what your going for.
If your going on pen and paper then it's not the players responsibilty to come up with their own things to do, they just enchance and build on what the DM's create (the world and stories).
And if you want to let them build their own stories then let them. If the only thing you get is people wanting to build walls, or shelters then that's what you get.
I've never played an RPG where someone didn't create the original story and in my experiences it's always been the DM.
Being a DM=90% of the work + the satisfaction at the end of a great story
Being a player=25% of the work + the fun of adding your own little twist to the story that's happening around you.
Or not, just my opinion and experiences, hopefully no one takes this personallyWe don't want PnP though in the sense the DM does the whole story.
We want players to come up with stories.
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Reading over this thread, I've seen a variety of opinions, differing and agreeing with Moloch's set out guidelines of what DMs are interested in seeing and what not. I think this by itself is a giant step in the right direction. As long as I've been apart of this community, one thing I was always frustrated with was the breakdown in communication between players and DMs. Frankly, this excludes players who have become DM-certified. Rather, public statements like these tell me that DMs are (and have been for a nearly six months as of this writing) saying "Sit down with me, and lets talk, because we're on the same level in the long run. We have different jobs, but we both want the same result in the end."
As such, "COA Sims" and "Adventure and Intrigue" represent just two of many varying mind sets floating around this community of players. Here is my take on these two in a conceptual light:
COA Sims:
I will agree that traditional COA Sim events can be rather dull. However, like others have said, you do have to think about the world in which these charity drives and beautification projects are taking place. These are all incredibly practical concepts, much better suited for the real world, where there is no magic and high adventure. However, I have to say that I do admire those who have put up with little to no attention from the DMs for so long because they honestly believed what they were doing was adding a little color to the server. It wasn't a powergame grind that you embarked on, but an attempt to add some idiosyncrasy to the server, and at least a "venue" for people to try and make plots for and against. That deserves some respect, I think.
With Sim relationships, I don't mind them, as long as it is kept to a low-burning quirk, and not the focal point of the characters existence. The problem is some players tend to parade their emotional and sexual escapades, likes it's the most thrilling romance novel you'd ever want to read. It's not the case, especially if you don't have enough perspective to recognize where that fine line of self-indulgence is. I do feel it is easier to turn relationships around into intrigue, however. It's been touched on in plots and events before, but it seems that is generally shied away to use interesting, intimate relationships as a central theme in their storylines. I've never seen stories of betrayal, surprise, and unrequited desire presented articulately on a very public scale. All of these things can be the basis and connectors for a lot of adventure. You could use a love affair to start a war, but the point is, is that conflict needs to come in and come in prominently. CoA isn't a naturist film and it certainly isn't a romance novel, after all.
Adventure and Intrigue Crowd:
I'm all for excitement and action, but when it turns your character into a disposable crux for merely chugging that plot or conflict along, it's far too shallow for my tastes. It essentially makes the server a blockbuster action movie, which, while retaining the dynamic style of said films, the server also drags along the cardboard characterization that those movies are so often criticized about. I often get the feeling when I interact with players who have the extreme " I'm a self-proclaimed badass, and take no prisoners on this awesome roller coaster extravaganza of dramatic fantasy fiction" mind set, that a lot of fundamental connecting threads to what their characters personalities might have are missing. This is probably because the player of that character wants to put something very specific across to others, which is fine, but there's such a thing as style over substance. To me, the best and most endearing style comes from something built up over time, a character with complexes and non-sequiturs, and doesn't play into the easiest archetypes of the anarchist menace, the intellectual ponce, the attention whore, the apathetic grump and the melodramatic tears of lightening.
I mention that specifically for the Adventure/Intrigue crowd because they are the ones who often take the spotlight in most cases (as it is what the DMs are interested in). Anyway, those are my merely my observations. I do give credit to the Adventure/Intrigue group for consistently providing momentum to stories, and keeping things fresh in terms of letting new stories emerge in a relatively frequent manner.
My advice for all play styles is to find a happy medium and to try not focusing on antagonizing the opposite style to no particular avail. People tend to listen to you when you consider the approach of the other side, and don't just bulldoze your opinion over on everyone.
Regardless, now that we know what DMs really want, it shouldn't be too much of a contested point about how much attention your concept receives and the rewards you garner from it. Gauging your future concepts on that very notion will save you a lot of hardship and questioning.
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Personally, take what the DMs want from the player base on board, but don't forget YOU are here to have a good time. So have a good time! If you want to build a wall, build a wall. Just don't expect a DM to help you.
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Say my character wants to defeat NPC X by using ADVENTURE and INTRIGUE. To defeat him, he wants, as was said, to find the SUPER TOME OF DESTRUCTION, or TALONA KISSED SUPER POISON OF DESTRUCTION or the MAGIC SWORD OF NPC X DESTRUCTION.
Thing is, how does our character find out these even exist in the first place? my character wants to look for some artifact… how does he know it exists? Is the player supposed to make up these things, say, he's a Talona-priest and just assumes there's got to be some SUPER POISON he could find? Or do we ask a DM for help in giving us a clue what kind of SUPER RELIC we could find? Or do we just not know about it until we somehow learn of it from OOC ressources? Or IC ressources? That's always what I wondered.
How can we go look for Relic/Magic Spell/Tome/anything if we don't know it exists, IC or OOC?
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How can we go look for Relic/Magic Spell/Tome/anything if we don't know it exists, IC or OOC?
You look for them, if you are dedicated something will show up, I am sure.
At least you will collect some nice adventures out there.Ah, but if you just post your search in the library and put up some notes in the bulletin do not expect to find a lot… while a few trips outside the city, gathering people, may generate plot hooks.