Game Etiquette would help a ton
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Being OOC kind and patient around a big box of loot
having done this before so that others could see what was available within the loot and had the items then whisked away by another character never to be seen again has led me to realise that unfortunately if you travel with those that are not known to you either IC or OOc then you do take pot luck with any distribution.
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The characters who I have played that have been leadership material of some type or other have generally gathered the loot and then handed it out as a method or reward.
I always hand out the quest gold given by the quest giver or DM equally. After that, loot found has been distributed on merit of some kind or other. Did a character show particular heroism? Did a mage save the day with a well timed spell? Did a priest save someone's life by risking his own to dive in an heal someone on the brink of death? This is never a question of who was the best, but much more about who made the best use of their skills/level etc.
I tend to offer an item or potion to someone and ask them, IC, if they would find it useful. I've a good idea that a Knight doesn't need a bow and a wizard should not recieve a broadsword. Fighters don't need scrolls. I find that, insead of people grabbing the nicest item or article so they can sell it, the items tend to go to those who will make best use of it. As the leader, I tend to be last in the queue, and that tends to mollify folks complaints about fairness.
This method is very autocratic rather than democratic but I actually think it fits in better with a medieval setting where democracy was quite rare. It also has a distinct advantage of being completed in very short order, allowing people to get on with RP rather than loot division which is so tedious.
If people complain, I tell them bluntly, but IC, that they don't have to join with me on my quests in future. I've very rarely found someone who has done just that.
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When there is loot at the big big shows, I usually only stay if I not only played a significant part, but also if there is sometthing i really really want. Otherwise i leave.
As to the rest, I usually try to be fair, and find people who can actually use the shit.
And yeah, with loot it should be treated in the same manner as pvp. There is absolutely no reason why your lvl 5 finesse halfling rogue -has- to roll for the +1 +1d6 fire longsword, when someone else actually uses such.
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+1
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If people complain, I tell them bluntly that they don't have to join with me on my quests in future. I've very rarely found someone who has done just that.
This illustrates exactly what I'm saying. Of the batallion of people who had problems with the characters who were "presumed leaders" and told my character about it during and after, none joined in the protest whenever the presumed leaders' control was put in question: fear of loss of loot (OOC).
Again, I'm not saying that's bad in and of itself. I'm just trying to point out that it's not a matter of "leadership material". Players simply don't react exclusively to IC cues; they want the loot, and they know who'll get it and who'll keep them from getting it if they don't do exactly what their character says.
I guess what's making me react more than anything is this sense of entitlement that frequently comes across, when there were about 4 factions involved in the event for various reasons, and all the "presumed leader" did was press CAPS LOCK or wave their IC title around with the OOC threat (formulated IC as the above quote) of not being in any more events.
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There is a big difference between "Presumed Leader" and "Actual Leader"
If I call a party to quest, I am the leader unless I devolve that to another. If I don't call the party together, I am not the leader unless leadership is passed to me.
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For quests. I'm talking about recent large-scale events.
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It will -never- seem fair to all, so don't bother trying.
For instance, at one major DM event , there was not enough loot to divvy up (it involved three simultaneous events), so the two leaders, myself and another gave up our stuff as rewards.
Sure enough, people bitched. (those of you antiques who I am probably can guess what this was)Recently.. at a DM event, (likely the one Argenta referred to..) a dozen plus of the 20 or so people involved left due to IC assholism on the part of the "leader" (let me stress it was IC, and OK). So… if there was DM loot given out afterwards, those people got nothing. Where is the "fairness" there.
Some people think everything should be "rolled for", Some people think it should be done by consensus, and some people think those who can use it should get it. There isnt one way to satisfy anyone.
Although - regarding rolling, what stops you from bargaining with the guy who just won the +2 LightSabre that you want? Trade him something he wants !
hell, offer to pay people to buy their "roll" before the rolls happen.Anyway, There is no happy solution that everyone likes.
Just... keep it IC, and if you are loot-heavy with a bunch of poor people, consider not taking anything.
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Cunning Stunt pulls out his magical D20 that all adventurers carry, cries a little inside, and rolls it. No matter the outcome, he feels like a loser
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@O'louth:
…if there is sometthing i really really want
I WANT IT ALL!
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This is how I personally handle it, and I have found myself in the "leader" position many times. All major loot, IE plot items, goes to the faction leading the event. All other loot, magical items/gold, is shared evenly with a dice roll. If there is something I know someone wants really really bad, and I think they have earned it, I typically ensure they get it.
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@Cunning:
Cunning Stunt pulls out his magical D20 that all adventurers carry, cries a little inside, and rolls it. No matter the outcome, he feels like a loser
So Agree with this.
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I'm currently playing a monk…. so often if I'm not leader I'll wait (meditate) until something is decided. If I'm the leader (I pay for a sending and get a "contract") then I get names of those I travel with. Also I establish before we leave what the "rules" of dividing loot will be maybe even who will carry ( I may even ask if someone I know can "vouch" for his/her honesty). To me this seems like a good idea anyway. If I'm gonna go out drinking I figure out who's gonna drive BEFORE I get drunk. If I go into a seedy part of a city I figure out who's got my back and what my escape routes are BEFORE I trust people. Seems like the same would be true in fantasy world. There's one guy I never did "get" his name and he grabbed and went.... I won't go out with him anymore and am still trying to get his name...... all part of roleplaying right?
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what do you need loot for?
If you think you need it, a few solutions:
1. earn it
2. buy it
3. kill for it
4. have someone steal it for you
5. threaten for it
6. beg for it
7. exchange favors for it
etc etc.Make rules for the sharing of it beforehand, but don't be surprised if someone won't stick to them (IG).
It happened to me that a DM once left some pieces of loot for certain characters based on their role (i.e. robe for a wizard, shield for a warrior…) but their "equivalent cash value" was not the same so it was decided to roll for the loot.
Well, in the end the DM "suggested" to share the loot based on the usability of the loot rather than Lady Luck's solution.Works for me, would have worked the other way around too.
Loot is often useless.
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I don't know about you, Almadyr, but in the D&D I like and play loot isn't useless; it's a major reason to do all these quests and plots etc. Not the only one, mind you, but let's be fair here: D&D at its core was a game about killing monsters and getting loot. If neither of the two are present in some form then it just isn't D&D anymore, it's small-time theatre/drama. Might as well watch TV if that'd be all I wanted.
On topic:
Here's my favorite loot-split methods, depending on character:
A: Leader takes all, splits it as he deems needed and fit
B: Put everything on the ground, tell everyone "First come, first serve." and make the group settle conflicts as they arise. (They arise remarkably rarely.) -
Ok, thread completely not what i was asking, implying or suggesting now. I have zero issue with greedy, self centered characters in a game OOC, its part of the game. I wasnt trying to enforce some server wide ooc loot system..
I was trying to solicit / come up with ideas to help clear the chat window up a bit, so it wasnt a scrolling nightmare that may make people miss important lines.. like " Does anyone mind if i take all armors for my God, since he is the coolest" and stuff like that, that they would normally see and reply to.
Thanks for all the input tho ! Its good to talk about things occasionally.
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Since I'm usually a lackey and not a leader, I don't recall having to divvy up loot to roughly 20 players. However, if I did, I'd pretty much do it like what people have suggested.
I'd let the front liners have their choice of loot first, especially if any died. They willingly put themselves in risk to protect their party, so they deserve greater rewards for greater risk. The wizards, I'd usually ask them to go last since they have magic which rogues and fighters don't, which I rate as a lot more powerful. Hybrid classes, depends on what they do. If they're duking it out in hand to hand, they will go first. If not, they will not go first.
I can speak from experience to tell you that rogues, while not as insanely potion intense as front line fighters, still have to chug a few down to survive. In some of the events I've been in as Aeric, I've pretty much survived because of the potions I've taken. Therefore rogues without magic I prioritize over mages.
In summary:
Front liners (Including Paladins and other melee classes with access to their own spells)
Non magic support
Magical supportAs for who goes first in loot picking? I choose based on who I think deserves it.
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I'd let the front liners have their choice of loot first, especially if any died.
Mages and other support characters are nearly as at risk as front liners.
The front liners have the AC and HP, and typically the defensive buffs.
The suppor charcetsr dont get the buffs, and quite often can be killed with one or two arrows. not to mention instant-killed in one round if a enemy combatant gets to them. it LOOKS like thr fornt liners take all the risks, but the rear dies too. -
Hai Jasede waves Play lately?
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Ok, thread completely not what i was asking, implying or suggesting now. I have zero issue with greedy, self centered characters in a game OOC, its part of the game. I wasnt trying to enforce some server wide ooc loot system..
I was trying to solicit / come up with ideas to help clear the chat window up a bit, so it wasnt a scrolling nightmare that may make people miss important lines.. like " Does anyone mind if i take all armors for my God, since he is the coolest" and stuff like that, that they would normally see and reply to.
Thanks for all the input tho ! Its good to talk about things occasionally.
Starting a thread like this is like starting a revolution. You can start it, but you can never control where it is going or how it will end up…eh Paris 1793?