Earn in Game positions/prestige classes etc
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I've experienced this myself in the past and have had quite a few conversations about this lately. I know that often things are supposed to be hard to earn, especially things that are extremely powerful. Sometimes though, it feels like getting to a certain point is nothing but one hurdle after another, climbing one mountain only to find another one waiting that was previously out of sight. It seems that often, things like pacts are made so hard to get that once earned, people are either close to being burned out with characters or one careless moment from being killed by "gank squads" or rivals. While those pacts are strong indeed, half the fun comes from seeing what creative players DO with these powers and what they will create for others.
Sometimes, it seems to me that "earning" certain perks can feel like a job and i think it should more often be looked at in the way of "will this player getting this certain something add a lot of fun to the server"? If the answer is yes, take a chance, make it not near impossible, if they're doing fun things with it, take a risk ;) It feels we could use more of that lately. This isn't meant as a bash, but a discussion if perks are too hard to attain? I don't think we've had 1 character rise to the top within the citadel council or the court so far, i feel things may sometimes have too strict demands on when a certain something is "earned" and characters often feel they're nearing an end when they finally end up getting there.
Please keep it civil and don't de-rail.
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I believe that some perks are indeed much too hard to earn. A group I was in was convinced to fight eachother under the assumption of promise that the victor would receive what they desired the most (a pact). After spending tens of thousands of gold in supplies EACH we were told that we would not be receiving anything substantial after all that effort and work due to something completely out of our control and that I personally felt was sabotaged.
However, that is in the past and is merely a point I wished to make, it feels to me that some perks are withheld from players that have earned it because the DMs seem to think that they would not use the perks properly and how they wanted. Even when the work required was put in happily, it feels to me like the DMs just don't trust players to go through with their goals and as such withhold very fun perks and parts of the server.
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EIG positions are the best motivators people can get. It's better than any loot in the world. I'd like to see people rewarded more frequently in the form of EIG positions so they can see that they're having an effect on the server, and that they are making some noticeable progress they can count for something. I'm not saying these positions should be thrown out haphazardly, but CoA has been fairly conservative with them lately. It could do with some loosening up. Risks are necessary to get results. :]
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Um… we just approved a PRC, theres a couple of knights/agents in the council,in the past (wont talk about the present for spoiler reasons alone, but... yeah) we've had knights of the plebian court too.
Whats too 'hard to earn' specifically?
Yes, we do decide on if certain perks are granted based on current server situations, like if we have a load of subraces, we probly will wait for a while to allow more, otherwise we get city of tieflings.
Yes, pacts are crazily hard to earn. They are 100% intended that way. They are really supposed to just 'happen' to a character though, so you shouldn't really be trying to earn one, you should just be roleplaying your character, and end up with them, much that same as with PRCs really.
As for 'The dms seem to think that they would not use the perks properly'
We give LOTS of chances to players regarding this, and I will be honest, 80% of the time, they end up retiring, being asked to retire, or wandering about doing nothing, or playing like any other character they had before. So yes, we are careful when we grant such perks, but that is for good reason. We don't want you to see some guy with a lycan subrace wandering about, being really quite bland, because then you'll think 'WTF, they denied my app and approved this?'
When you get cool stuff, its normally because your doing stuff that the DM team feels makes the server a more lively, fun place. That's basically the deal, because we can't DM all the time like we want to.
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Yes, pacts are crazily hard to earn. They are 100% intended that way. They are really supposed to just 'happen' to a character though, so you shouldn't really be trying to earn one, you should just be roleplaying your character, and end up with them, much that same as with PRCs really.
I have had two warlock pacts (Mephistopheles and Star), a PrC (blight druid), and a Duke in the Plebian Court.
50% of it is being in the right place at the right time. The other 50% is playing your character and going with whatever plots/conflict you are pursuing. Often, a plot will lead to the creation of these perks and a certain group of players who happen to be pursuing stuff will earn it outright or be given the perk with the IC expectation to do something cool with it.
Players want alot of things, but the server and DMs can only work with so much.
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yes! as a player, I wanted ALL THE THINGS!!!! So I get it :)
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Might be a bit off topic, but I think duke is much more difficult to earn than Agent. It would be cool if they were on equal level, especially since the council has almost always had more members than the court since they were introduced.
Some pacts can be pursued, but others, such as star, are more being in the right place at the right time. That said, if you do like 2-3 events for one specific thing, you should see some progress, otherwise it can get very discouraging… Especially for faction members.
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We don't have higher standards for Dukes, I think Citadel PCs just tend to be a bit longer lived.
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I will also point out EiG PrCs have a pretty high acceptance rate.
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Agents sometimes get made more easily for the sake of keeping law in the hands of players.
Dukes are more on-par with Citadel Knights really.
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I will also point out EiG PrCs have a pretty high acceptance rate.
I think the only reason people think they aren't is because you don't see PC's run around screaming "HEY! I"M A CHAMPION OF TROM" which is a good thing. Also, if you are pursuing a PrC, then you aren't pursuing the REASON you should get a PrC. Half the people I know who got them, were approached with them, not pursuing it, and they said they only took it for RP reasons since it gimped their build lol.
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@latoksinned:
I will also point out EiG PrCs have a pretty high acceptance rate.
I think the only reason people think they aren't is because you don't see PC's run around screaming "HEY! I"M A CHAMPION OF TROM" which is a good thing. Also, if you are pursuing a PrC, then you aren't pursuing the REASON you should get a PrC. Half the people I know who got them, were approached with them, not pursuing it, and they said they only took it for RP reasons since it gimped their build lol.
Having received one of these and seen people who have, I'll agree on both counts. I can't speak to the rest, but that's mainly because I don't pursue them. I just bitch when they don't go the way I think they should. A lot of altitude is determined by attitude.
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wha-choo sayin bout maah attitude man?!
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I will also point out EiG PrCs have a pretty high acceptance rate.
I guess people just don't pursue them much. I have seen two accounts of one PrC in my time on CoA, which also seems like it's the easiest one to EiG. (Assassin)
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Actually, I forgot I saw one weaponmaster also.
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Weapon master is actually kind of tough to earn, to an extent. But essentially, you just need to earn prestige, in the thing that relates to the class.
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I've often been very frustrated with the Application process, due to my own personal failings. I dislike people telling me that this concept needs work, because often I think its good enough. Earn in Game can be extremely frustrating, and requires a huge commitment of time, not just from you, but from fellow players. Being able to motivate them with common goals or common desires is key to achieving EiG. Stamina is also a key feature, because to get your EiG, you often have to persevere for weeks or months on end. Yet sometimes it is notoriously easy to suddenly attain a position in one event, which raises hackles among other PCs.
I personally believe that the best way to EiG is to involve as many PCs as possible, make sure your allies AND enemies can bring back wins and good feelings, and engage in intrigue and competition without having to resort to repeated PvP battles, though such is quite often part and parcel, especially if you involve alot of people.
I find that character fatigue generally sets in after 2-4 weeks, and if you do not manage to achieve your EiG within that time, or at least come really close, that character retires. Even after you accomplish your EiG, you have to have stamina, because you have lost your primary goal and have to find a new one. In my experience, alot of people who manage to EiG lose stamina shortly afterwards, or meet an end before they can make use of it. The number of Agents who lose their Agent Armor on Day 1 can almost be counted on 2 hands.
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That's the thing Thune, we often feel our concepts are good enough until the flaws are pointed out to us, then they often become blatantly obvious when exposed from the point of view of someone looking at the concept from the outside. Thus the frustration are often caused by the fact that DMs can often tell what will generate interest from other players, not from us, which is often the root of making our own things fun after all. I've had to swallow this bit a hundred times AT LEAST ;)
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Instead of stealing Agent armor, vandalize the shit out of it! Dye it super ugly colors and RP writing something naughty on it.
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well really you should have a use for the armour in mind, otherwise a DM will just take it from you anyway.