Rules for PvP and PKing
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City of Arabel is a roleplaying persistant world (RPPW). That means we're going to encourage player vs player action (PvP). By this we mean conflicts, rivalry, and even combat against fellow player characters (PCs). However, the conflict is suppose to be fun and exciting, so there are some strict rules and guidelines (counter-intuitive I know) to help keep the peace. Most of these rules really only apply for one PvP turns into Player Killing (PK).
Please remember, if you plan on taking any hostile action against another player that you set them hostile first and you must try to contact a DM as soon as possible if you plan any PvP. Often, PvP done without a DM's permission may be ruled unfair or illegitimate and result in problems, this problem goes double if the PvP ends in PK or looting usually.
A final note before the list of rules, this is overwhelmingly a server based on roleplaying, telling stories, and making things fun for your fellow players with everything you do. Everyone gets NWN and D&D are games ultimately about numbers and combat, that's important to remember, but the fun matters more. If someone is really good at grinding quests, making the optimal build, and winning PvP trying to push forward a storyline or outcome they want and they come across someone whose PC is very good at keeping people entertained, organizing adventures and quests, and making things FUN for other players--you should expect that DMs and even NPCs will be supporting that person and they'll be able to more effectively push their storyline or outcome forward. Yes, this is how the DMs play favorites here, and we're proud of it--you should be too! That said, don't expect your FUN awesome level 5 monk to win a fist fight against the level 12 cleric, but also understand that the DM team is still going to reward the fun you create for OTHER players. And if you're a level 12 butt-kicking machine and hosting player-led events and making things so fun people log in just to roleplay with you, then that's great too!
1). Rules on Looting
a). There is no reason to loot a player who has died on a scripted quest if that player is intending to respawn or get raised. It is in bad form to simply full loot all their gear ever. If a player has died (and is getting raised-not died and is respawning to their corpse), your evil character might claim an item or two, but be considerate that this player has already just lost thousands of experience points and now you're greedily stealing more from them. Basically, don't be a dick.
b). It is not acceptable to run around full-looting corpse bags during major DM run PvP events. Typically, the DMs will try to lock your corpse bags to prevent this kind of behavior, but should we miss a bag or forget–it is important to be considerate to other players who have died during chaotic and dangerous events. If your character is looking to steal and loot a specific item, simply mention it to a DM (presuming one isn't busy). Doing this results in a DM bag dropping you and letting players looting you. Or wiping your PC.
c). Full looting is acceptable, but it is generally not polite or sporting. When you're not full-damage killing someone, and simply playing a mugger or thief–merely take their gold or a few items instead of everything the player had. If you had a legitimate conflict that ended in full-damage, full-looting is acceptable but maybe you can find some way to avoid taking everything that character had if they plan on returning to life like blackmailing them "I'll return your mystical Spear of Nubin, but you must swear never to cross me again or next time you shall not return from the Fugue" is a good route to take with this.
d). Don't simply loot any corpse you come across, even if playing an evil character you should stop and consider the other players, there are times when you must consider the evil actions your character would take and understand that they can be detriment to the server. Stealing every item another player has while they're dead and can not even fight against you is the kind of behavior that will drive newer players from the server, and is disheartening to even older players. This is not to say you can't loot the fallen, but that you should stop and consider very carefully your actions. Taking some gold, or a couple of items is one thing--taking every single thing is often well into the realm of being a complete jerk.
2). Rules on PvP
a). Do not abuse transitions in PvP by "double transitioning". This means don't repeatedly use transitions. If two transitions are close together, that is one thing, but going back and forth through transitions to abuse transition loading speeds and more is lame. Further, don't Stealth immediately after transitioning, if you're being pursued across areas- you still need to be a good distance away from the player to stealth. Rule of thumb is- If I can see them, they can see you.
b). PvP requires a legitimate reason if it will end in a PK. The DMs are the only real arbiters of what "legitimate" means. Therefore, it you're planning to kill another character, it is always best practice to contact the DMs to discuss it as far in advance as you can. DMs reserve the right to maintain your reason was not good enough and return gear, experience, and even turn back other affects of the PvP. This is why it is best to clear your plans to PvP with us ahead of time. It also affords benefits to have a DM present, which are discussed in the Guidelines for Keeping PvP Fun section below.c). No PvP that will lead to PK can ever occur in front of non-hostile NPCs, even if those NPCs are friendly to you. I.E. Lawful Good lynch mobs killing evil Banites in a good temple does not fly. If NPCs are present, a DM MUST be present for PvP to occur. This does not only cover magical and physical attacks, but bully brow-beating and threats. If it is reasonable for an NPC to intervene or react to a situation, get a DM there to witness it.
Exception:
- You can use Pick Pocket. - You do not need to be hostile to use it, however, it is advised you have .hostile all quickslotted in case of being spotted.
- "Plucking Hair" does not require you to be hostile, however, as above, please have .hostile all ready to go in case of being spotted.
- Your victim and those nearby can beat the crap out of you if you are caught.
- You are part of a DM Faction with policing powers.
-For DM Factions with Policing Powers, if you engage in PvP without a DM, you take it upon yourself that you might lose without back up. If you are defeated, the player you were pursuing is expected to run away from the scene, he may gloat and give a villainous laugh- but he should not do anything that NPCs would reasonably interfere in such as looting, killing, etc…
-Shylock's Pub welcomes criminals, and brawling is permitted without a DM. However, a brawl stops being a brawl if potions, weapons, or magic begins to be used. Keep it classy.
-Old Town and Arabel North are 'PvP free' areas. However, in the presence of the Penal Legion, attacking members of the Militia won't be allowed without a DM. The Penal Legion doesn't care if you fight, they do care, however, if their necks are on the line.
-Wanted/Exiled criminals may not enter the Citadel without a DM. They may enter Arabel North with a convincing disguise, but if a Militia PC or character of authority* spots you, you're to run away.
Beating up a PC in front of NPCs does not equal killing him in front of NPCs, get a DM if you intend to do that. - This includes BROWN NPCS. A DM is required to kill in front of an NPC, period- unless it's hostile and obviously some sort of generic monster.
d). When you are full damaged killed, make it realistic and don't be inconsiderate to your killer. Consider staying dead for a few days or a week, otherwise the other person is totally in their right to just kill you again and again and again and the DMs won't consider it greifing. You may also consider the fact that you DIED. This has a traumatic effect on intelligent and sentient creatures. You may actually realize, "OH SHIT, this guy can KILL me" maybe I should stop insulting his mother since the last five times he gutted me. It almost seems like reverse "griefing" since you just keep coming after them no matter what they do and by the sixth or seventh death its pretty clear that you're over-matched and should be showing a modicum of fear. This is important. If a player killed you, you should consider ending your character, it cheapens conflict and reduces the consequences of actions if you come back repeatedly. If you keep coming back after PCs killed you, then obviously, PCs are less inclined to interact with you. If you feel the death was unwarranted, speak to a DM.e). Set yourself to hostile before attacking other PCs. You can use (even quickslot!) chat commands to perform this quickly. -This is a big one. Please have .hostile all quickslotted on every character. If you initiate PvP, it is up to you to set hostiles. This command should be the go to for setting hostiles, because while your party might not fight you, someone from the crowd might intervene. If you do not set hostiles, DMs will take particular umbridge to this.
f). Don't stack traps. Avoid using deadly, high damage traps in PvP unless a DM is supervising (they send people straight to the fugue).
g). Unsummoning companions to prevent their death in PvP is fine. Summoning them later during the same PvP, is not. Companions that retreat know better than to throw themselves into a fight where they would simply die in.
Gb). Undead companions should not be used in NPC areas, brown or not. This goes for obviously evil, or scary looking summons as well.
i). Style- this is a nebulous concept, but it involves making things fun for other players. Namely, simply because your group can invis gank a player, should you? Would it not be far better to simply drop invisibility one at a time around the player and let him realize how screwed he is if he doesn't meet your demands? Are you several levels higher than your opponent? Maybe you can afford giving yourself a handicap. Saying, "I won't use any potions but healing ones," or "I won't use a shield," or, "I'll use my bare hands for this!" Are considered style points. Even if you lose because of it, the player in front of you will remember how you evened the odds and didn't sacrifice style for the win. Those who possess style will find themselves with infinitely more rewarding RP and reputation. Take a long hard look at what style means to you, because if you lack style- players will be significantly less inclined to be stylish with you.j). Six charisma PCs won't find themselves welcomed or appreciated by any NPC on the server. You are warned. Mostly for the fact that some animals have higher charisma than you.
3). Guidelines for Keeping PvP Funa). PvP should not always end in PK. Many times just beating someone once and leaving a solid threat that next time they die should be enough. If you just wanted to steal something, just subdue them and steal it. If you want to convert someone to your god, it may take more than just "Convert or Die" why not actually try to convert them first with words, by defeating them a few times to show your strength, or through a series of challenges to prove your god/philosophy is better–then if none of that works call out "convert or die". It'll be much more fun for all involved, and who knows who may wind up having their faith shaken during the roleplay that follows. Plus if you're enemies know you're loathe to kill, they will be slow to retaliate with death themselves. -Keep in mind, mechanics are a part of the game. Simply because someone has more potions than you doesn't mean you can toss fear out the window, supplies and equipment reflect the skill and experience of the warrior, after all. It's why you never see level 20 fighters in anything less than +3 full plate and weaponry. Superior equipment is a mark of experience and power, after all.
b). If you do decide to PK, at least try to give the other player a chance to escape and they should be aware you intend to kill them (give suspicious glances, draw weapons and threaten them, don't simply leap out of invisibility to "win" a fight). Its not fair to attack someone on FD when you know they're on SD and that the worst that might happen if your attack fails is that they SD you and leave you there then flee. They should know you planned to PK them at least so they can decide if they desire to return the favor.
c). If you engage in PvP and leave some Near Death, or kill them but don't full loot. Its polite to make sure that wandering monsters don't finish off the poor Near Death guy. Its alright, even preferred despite the OOCness, make sure any near by monsters are dead and gone.
d). Remember, PvP is a question of mechanics. If you engage in PvP, understand these mechanics. Realize people can transition faster than you, and may escape that way. Realize subdued characters remain subdued a certain length of time, after which they can get up to fight or drink potions. Realize there is no way to properly enforce a "disguise", and there is no way for a player to enforce permadeath or even lengthy deaths (Although, the DMs do have a process for adjudicating situations where this comes up between players who can not agree between themselves). If you want to do anything outside the normal mechanics of NWN in PvP, you must get a DM to help with it. That DM should know what you want to have happen well enough in advance to be able to help too. This isn't an excuse to ignore someone has subdued your character and is emoting "put a sword point to Joe's throat" and jump up simply because the mechanical time limit wore out on subdual. I mean, he did subdue you and did put a sword to your throat.
OLD RULES
! Please remember, if you plan on taking any hostile action against another player that you set them hostile first and you must try to contact a DM as soon as possible if you plan any PvP. Often, PvP done without a DM's permission may be ruled unfair or illegitimate and result in problems.
! 1). Rules on Looting
! a). There is no reason to loot a player who has died on a scripted quest if that player is intending to respawn or get raised. It is in bad form to simply full loot all their gear. If a player has died (and is getting raised-not died and is respawning to their corpse), your evil character might claim an item or two, but be considerate that this player has already just lost thousands of experience points and now you're greedily stealing more from them.
! b). It is not acceptable to run around full-looting corpse bags during major DM run PvP events. Typically, the DMs will try to lock your corpse bags to prevent this kind of behavior, but should we miss a bag or forget–it is important to be considerate to other players who have died during chaotic and dangerous events. If your character is looking to steal and loot a specific item, simply mention it to a DM (presuming one isn't busy).
! c). Full looting is acceptable, but it is generally not polite or sporting. When you're not full-damage killing someone, and simply playing a mugger or thief--merely take their gold or a few items instead of everything they player had. If you had a legitimate conflict that ended in full-damage, full-looting is acceptable but maybe you can find some way to avoid taking everything that character had if they plan on returning to life like blackmailing them "I'll return your mystical Spear of Nubin, but you must swear never to cross me again or next time you shall not return from the Fugue" is a good route to take with this.
! d). Don't simply loot any corpse you come across, even if playing an evil character you should stop and consider the other players, there are times when you must consider the evil actions your character would take and understand that they can be detriment to the server. Stealing every item another player has while they're dead and can not even fight against you is the kind of behavior that will drive newer players from the server, and is disheartening to even older players. This is not to say you can't loot the fallen, but that you should stop and consider very carefully your actions. Taking some gold, or a couple of items is one thing--taking every single thing is often well into the realm of being a complete jerk.
! 2). Rules on PvP
! a). Do not abuse transitions in PvP by "double transitioning".
! b). PvP requires a legitimate reason if it will end in a PK. The DMs are the only real arbiters of what "legitimate" means. Therefore, it you're planning to kill another character, it is always best practice to contact the DMs to discuss it as far in advance as you can. DMs reserve the right to maintain your reason was not good enough and return gear, experience, and even turn back other affects of the PvP. This is why it is best to clear your plans to PvP with us ahead of time. It also affords benefits to have a DM present, which are discussed in the Guidelines for Keeping PvP Fun section below.
! c). No PvP that will lead to PK can ever occur in front of non-hostile NPCs, even if those NPCs are friendly to you. I.E. Lawful Good lynch mobs killing evil Banites in a good temple does not fly. If NPCs are present, a DM MUST be present for PvP to occur. This does not only cover magical and physical attacks, but bully brow-beating and threats. If it is reasonable for an NPC to intervene or react to a situation, get a DM there to witness it.
! Exception:- You can use PP.
- Your victim and those nearby can beat the crap out of you if you are caught.
- You are part of a DM Faction with policing powers.
! Beating up a PC in front of NPCs does not equal killing him in front of NPCs, get a DM if you intend to do that.
! d). When you are full damaged killed, make it realistic and don't be inconsiderate to your killer. Consider staying dead for a few days or a week, otherwise the other person is totally in their right to just kill you again and again and again and the DMs won't consider it greifing. You may also consider the fact that you DIED. This has a traumatic effect on intelligent and sentient creatures. You may actually realize, "OH SHIT, this guy can KILL me" maybe I should stop insulting his mother since the last five times he gutted me. It almost seems like reverse "griefing" since you just keep coming after them no matter what they do and by the sixth or seventh death its pretty clear that you're over-matched and should be showing a modicum of fear.
! e) Set yourself to hostile before attacking other PCs. You can use (even quickslot!) chat commands to perform this quickly.
! 3). Guidelines for Keeping PvP Fun
! a). PvP should not always end in PK. Many times just beating someone once and leaving a solid threat that next time they die should be enough. If you just wanted to steal something, just subdue them and steal it. If you want to convert someone to your god, it may take more than just "Convert or Die" why not actually try to convert them first with words, by defeating them a few times to show your strength, or through a series of challenges to prove your god/philosophy is better–then if none of that works call out "convert or die". It'll be much more fun for all involved, and who knows who may wind up having their faith shaken during the roleplay that follows. Plus if you're enemies know you're loathe to kill, they will be slow to retaliate with death themselves.
! b). If you do decide to PK, at least try to give the other player a chance to escape and they should be aware you intend to kill them (give suspicious glances, draw weapons and threaten them, don't simply leap out of invisibility to "win" a fight). Its not fair to attack someone on FD when you know they're on SD and that the worst that might happen if your attack fails is that they SD you and leave you there then flee. They should know you planned to PK them at least so they can decide if they desire to return the favor.
! c). If you engage in PvP and leave some Near Death, or kill them but don't full loot. Its polite to make sure that wandering monsters don't finish off the poor Near Death guy. Its alright, even preferred despite the OOCness, make sure any near by monsters are dead and gone.
! d). Remember, PvP is a question of mechanics. If you engage in PvP, understand these mechanics. Realize people can transition faster than you, and may escape that way. Realize subdued characters remain subdued a certain length of time, after which they can get up to fight or drink potions. Realize there is no way to properly enforce a "disguise", and there is no way for a player to enforce permadeath or even lengthy deaths (Although, the DMs do have a process for adjudicating situations where this comes up between players who can not agree between themselves). If you want to do anything outside the normal mechanics of NWN in PvP, you must get a DM to help with it. That DM should know what you want to have happen well enough in advance to be able to help too. This isn't an excuse to ignore someone has subdued your character and is emoting "put a sword point to Joe's throat" and jump up simply because the mechanical time limit wore out on subdual. I mean, he did subdue you and did put a sword to your throat. -
Folks, the rule about getting a DM before you PK if at all possible has not disappeared in the last 12 hours.
The reason for this is simple, if DMs do not approve of your PKing reasons (after the fact) then we have to go through quite a bit of work to fix the problem.
If we approve and over see the PvP situation, you help us prevent any problems from occurring.
So please, do this. Only DMs can judge if PvP was done legitimately, and if you do not have a DM present to over see it–there are chances we will 1). be annoyed with you for giving us a problem to solve 2). reverse whatever you did 3). if you really made bad mistakes we may even delete your PC.
At the very least, if you know you're planning to PK someone, you need to try clearing it with a DM beforehand. The ideal situation is to have us oversee any PKing as well. Obviously you can't always get a DM, but making the effort makes the game more fun for all of us afterward.
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Reminder about PvP rules, specifically:
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Hostiling Enemies: It is a requirement of PvP that you hostile anyone you believe may attempt to fight you if you are about to instigate PvP. If you're facing off against five guys it's not sufficient to just hostile the one you're about to attack. Unless you're hostile, certain combat mechanics will not come into play, and this is an exploit if it is done intentionally.
You can do this by:
"Disliking" a character via the Player List
Typing **.hostile **to hostile a specific character.
Typing .hostile all to make everyone on the server not in your party go hostile to you and vice versa
When you are finished, you can type .hostile none to remove server-wide hostility. -
Common Sense: If you engage in spontaneous PvP without a DM, it is not going to be a flawless affair. You need to understand this before getting yourself into such a situation - and if you do, then you need to show a bit of understanding for the less-than-flawless PvP conduct that may result. If there is a serious breach then take screenshots, take logs, get in touch with a DM and above all, don't get caught in an OOC tirade with another player about what is and what isn't permissible.
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Leeway: We don't operate arena-based PvP. It's natural and open-world, and as such every encounter is different. Most of all because not everyone will be as familiar or experienced with handling PvP from the OOC requirements we have. It falls to the DM involved to judge any intervention necessary in a PvP. The DM's Ruling is Final. They may decide to let someone get away with minor breaches of PvP policy if they are not convinced it was a deliberate breach of it - and the mistake has been understood by the party involved - in the interests of keeping things IC and in the interests of helping people unfamiliar with PvP norms get used to them. We were all newbies once.
The ruling may even legitimize small breaches if the DM is convinced they were caused by bugs or factors outwith the offending party's control. In either case, it falls to a DM to investigate the PvP and make their conclusions in what can be very messy, very sensitive situations, and honest player cooperation in such instances is a necessity more than any PvP rule listed here. The easiest solution is to get a DM before everything happens, or at the very least send a message through the DM channel telling them where PvP is about to happen.
Above all, exercise a bit of wisdom and consideration for the situation your foes are in, and if you still feel PvP rules were flagrantly broken, Contact a DM.
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Regarding metagaming PvP.
If you are involved in PvP then do everything you can to prevent any metagaming occurring. This means doing things like:
Leaving party or kicking out party members who are not involved
Not engaging in OOC Tell conversations keeping people not ICly aware of the PvP abreast of it
Do not respond to being hostiled by logging out to avoid a confrontation
Do not log in and beeline for a PvP event that you are not learning of through IC channelsMetagaming PvP, especially PvP that results in ending a character is about as serious as it gets. It is not fun to roll back these things but roll them back we will if we are not convinced metagaming did not occur.
And if we are convinced metagaming did occur then bans and vault wipes are going to be dished out. Don't do it, and don't give others the temptation to do it.
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Bumping this to remind people,we are a PvP server, we have PvP rules. If you think someone has broken those rules, screenshot it and send logs/evidence to the DMs. Do not accuse people via the forums, IRC, back channel tells because you make things toxic either because you're accusing someone who hasn't actually broken a rule -OR- you have allowed their rule breaking to continue to affect other people because you didn't come directly to the DM team to handle it.
We remind everyone, if you are planning PvP, it is your job to get a DM. Failure to do so could lead the DM team to retconning the PvP, removing any loot you gained, raising anyone who died, and in severe cases–-the DMs may ban you from future PvP. Etc etc. Because we are the final arbiters of all PvP. Here I'm more focused on PvP that leads to PKing or Looting, not a simple fist fight in a bar. For the most part, non-lethal non-looting conflicts are highly encouraged and won't need DMs for the most part.
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Seriously, these rules are simple guys.
But the whole spirit behind them is to create fun, stop FDing and rushing to loot.
As I've said many times, DMs are more impressed when you create a story and awesome event than that you managed to mob gang some people and FD them and rush for their loot bags.
We WILL continue to give Resurrections and return loot when we're not happy with the rush to FD people.
We're here to have fun with a community of players, not "win". If you want to "win" go play on an arena server and win to your heart's content! If you want story and interaction, that's the goal here and FD isn't a great way to interact with anyone.
Also:
Cutting heads off doesn't prevent raises. It doesn't even stop respawning! That's not the spirit of the server, people get to play their characters and only–only--DMs get to decide who permadies and doesn't.
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Please be aware, some areas now have BROWN NPCs. These NPCs are fine to pvp in front of, but will become hostile if you affect them with spells/affects.
That doesn't make them someone you can metagame in front of, these BROWN NPCs are essentially just unconcerned who you fight or kill as long as you leave them alone though.
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Please be aware, some areas now have BROWN NPCs. These NPCs are fine to pvp in front of, but will become hostile if you affect them with spells/affects.
That doesn't make them someone you can metagame in front of, these BROWN NPCs are essentially just unconcerned who you fight or kill as long as you leave them alone though.
Bumping this as a gentle reminder.
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Putting up a reminder folks. We are a story roleplaying world. This means PvP is a part of the server, we do not, nor ever have wanted to create situations where PvP always ends in PKing (especially when that PKing comes with full looting or the premature end of a story which we tend to like even less), but there will always be conflict.
Without conflict, there is no such thing as story and the server will be a stagnant setting.
If you can not handle the consequences of PvP, or ignore that you've lost conflicts or the consequences of conflict while still stirring up conflicts against those who are outmanuevering you through combat, intrigue, or adventure, this can be considered bad form. Even worse is simply creating conflict, but refusing to accept when others return your adversarial actions with their own actions. You are not the 'star of Arabel', every player is equal and if you can dish it, you must accept that others will as well, and that conflict can even escalate.
IE: If you call a half orc a thug, and he punches you for it, that makes perfect sense. If you call him a thug afterward, and he beats you into the ground, that makes a lot of sense. If you get up, heal, call him a thug again, and he pulls a sword and beats you down, that makes sense–but one has to ask what were you thinking? If you are laying bleeding on the ground, and call him a thug again, and this time he kills you--frankly what he did makes sense (though I'd wonder if he could have shown more OOC courtesy by simply walking away having humiliated you over and over again) but what you did made almost no sense (why provoke and continue to escalate the situation?!) If you then complain you were PKed, no DM will have an ounce of sympathy though. You created and escalated the PvP there to your own demise.
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Folks, this shouldn't need to be bumped, but it is being bumped.
Again, PKing should be cleared through a DM or have a DM over see it to ensure your reasons are good. If they're not good reasons, then there are going to be very crappy consequences for you, and no one wants to go through that–not the player you killed, not the DM who spends an hour or two cleaning up the mess when they could have run an event or scripted something cool for the player base, and not you when you wind up with a character deleted or yourself actually banned.
If you don't have good reasons to PK, a DM is happy to help you think of other creative and fun things you can do to disrupt or cause problems for your rivals in-game.
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Guy I am bumping this and would ask everyone to have a read and if you have questions or need something cleared up ask a DM before you engage in PvP.
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Bumping this
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Rules have been UPDATED. Please review.
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Update to the Pick Pocket and 'pluck hair' rules.
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After some Discussion, Pick Pocket and Pluck hair does /not/ require you to be hostile. However, you should be fully ready and willing to set your victim hostile yourself if you are caught.
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@SpiffyHas:
After some Discussion, Pick Pocket and Pluck hair does /not/ require you to be hostile. However, you should be fully ready and willing to set your victim hostile yourself if you are caught.
And fully ready and willing to accept the consequences of such actions.
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Apparently, PvP is causing some problems. Let's remember the rules everyone!
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Updated 3 new paragraphs at the start, everyone should read and remember this!
