Dr. Quickfix, or How I Learnt to Stop Listening to Players
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The problem isnt people not taking sides, I can understand why someone wouldnt give a crap if the legion fight the harts, hell. your average joe in the city has no reason to care.
The problem is nothing is happening and people on both sides are just waiting for plots to move forward.
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During the civil war there were enough players on the server for conflict to work between players. When I log on now I'm averaging 15 people online. If I take a side I'm at odds with half of them right away and can't quest with them. So of the 7 or 8 players that would be sympathetic to doing something with me, half of those are in my level range. I'm down to 3 or four people I can quest with, push plots with, or just rp with - unless I want to argue with the other side. I think people are being more neutral to the conflicts because taking sides would effectively end your adventuring career. Without the questing and adventuring things aren't too fun. No questing means no loot or levels to effectively deal with your enemies. In the current environment, if you take sides it's just darn hard to play.
Lucky for me there is a DM faction that plays to neutrality right now - the mages guild
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@Notsoslimshady:
The problem isnt people not taking sides, I can understand why someone wouldnt give a crap if the legion fight the harts, hell. your average joe in the city has no reason to care.
The problem is nothing is happening and people on both sides are just waiting for plots to move forward.
Plots move forward? for what, a year ? Give up the plots. go find your PC opponents.
Smack em down, take their loot, give it as reward to every adventurer in town to patrol the areas outside their HQ so they cant do ANYTHING except sit the behind their NPCs and talk about elves. -
I honestly am starting to feel a bit underwhelmed with my character because of the current player climate. It'd too relaxed, too cozy. But I confess to not knowing how to shake things up, but I WANT to. I desperately want to ruin this hippie-dippie pacifism going on right now and get wild. But I'm not sure how. I'll gladly take advice, and I'm sure others reading this would appreciate it, too.
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I actually LOVED it when I looked at the player list and there was no one to quest with. It basically meant there was a ton of people to act against.
Also, the mages guild being neutral is a little befuddling to me. When the mages guild became a faction, Maleen walked into the palace and announced - 'The Mages guild of Arabel will no longer be neutral! it has stood idle for too long!'
Those were almost his exact words.
k.
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More plots that actually get solved and ended within a reasonable amount of time. Dms like what someone is doing? Toss them some special loot or story. And spread the love. That person have 7 different dm given items? How about tossing some stuff to someone else. If someone is making a difference, make sure they feel it.
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BG is on the money as usual when it comes to the current state of the server, however it would be best if NR were not part of this discussion as it has only been live for a week or so in comparison to both EFU and Ravenloft which have been around for years and had time to work out their respective policies. Using it in the context that it was is hardly fair and unnecessary. Personally I think the rules explain themselves pretty well, if you think otherwise than why not talk to the DMs there instead of putting it in a negative light on another server's forums? Frankly, I think its pretty amazing what they have been able to build in such a short time. That being said I think the rest of of points here are valid and I hope that V5 does provide the change many of us want. I love CoA and have spent many years here but I just don't have the motivation to login as the way I used to given the way things are now.
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i really like coa, otherwise i would not have stayed so long
there are a lot of answers, but the one that seems to come up a few times, is that people who are not in factions, or not in the popular crowd need to be included in things, and i do not count getting beat up by bullies or chased away by bullies as being included in things
i find it is quite hard to get included in things, heck i even know of two cases where i was told not to do something by a dm because someone else was the focus of the story, once several years ago and one more recently, because i have been here a long time does not mean i get included in a lot of things, if you take all the things i have been in and added them up, it would seem like a lot, till you figure out it is spread over a very long time, for me getting included in something is quite rare and special…and being told to stand at the sidelines has effected my enthusiasm in the game, honestly felt the dm thought i should stay on the side and shut up because i have been here a long time, that may not have been the intent..but that is how i came away feeling about it
which is worse? not getting included? or getting included and being told to shut up and not get in the way?
my ideas for the game and improving it are obviously wrong, i do not even like the fighting part of the game, and the pvp part i like even less, yet i have persisted in remaining here, so knowing that changing arabel to suit me and my play style would kill it in a week or maybe even less...what is the answer? there have been a lot of them in the previous posts, it is up to the dms and the players to sift through them.
when was arabel strong? well..it was stronger when there were more people playing the game in general and the servers had to literally beat people away with a stick, now, the servers need to attract and keep players, the days of telling players tough..deal with it should be in the past, should they be pandered to? no....also comparing to EFU seems valid, but when i have been on i have noticed efu and coa have almost roughly the same amount of players, which server is more friendly to new players? only the new players can judge after a fair comparison. i have played on both i prefer arabel, but efu does have its charms, and i can see and understand why people would leave for another server
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@Neolithic:
I honestly am starting to feel a bit underwhelmed with my character because of the current player climate. It'd too relaxed, too cozy. But I confess to not knowing how to shake things up, but I WANT to. I desperately want to ruin this hippie-dippie pacifism going on right now and get wild. But I'm not sure how. I'll gladly take advice, and I'm sure others reading this would appreciate it, too.
Welcome to the Varlets.
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From what I have been reading, alot of people seem disenchanted with the servers political climate. When the initial Civil War plot broke out, it was so successful because it was different, it suddenly forced everyone to think about their characters and pick a side because they knew it was the be all and end all. It had to have its conclusion bringing about the biggest change in CoAs history since the wipe. It was truly the birth of a new chapter in the CoA story. Unfortunately, it was so successful that more and more of the factions birthed from the fallout of the Civil War plot attempted to recreate this, constantly springing up to oppose the status quo and give players reasons to pit their characters against each other once more. The way this was handled coupled with dwindling player numbers had meant that another side of the CoA playerbase felt unloved, unwanted, and became detatched. The importance of such "wars" and conflicts now have become so minnute to the average player that if you're not a faction proper, you're bound to keep neutral and focus on your own character and the adventuring aspect of the server. This has led to some of the comments above, some from CoA vets like games.
As I attempted to reitterate in my OP. CoA needs to forge an identity to remain in contention against these servers. I never intended to insult NR, Dond. I praised it for the fact that it has a central focus, and a very interesting one at that, it also has enough trust in its players to keep their PVP rules and guidelines vague and wonderfully trusting, allowing the general feel of the place to be shaped by the players who come and join it.
Some think a mix between the days of V2/V3 and V4 might be a winning formula; factions under one roof, under a single leige/leader/lich/whatever, competing in a world that can be shaped by their own actions whilst fighting off a mutual enemy, entity or seeking a common fate such as freedom or survival. There is always reason to work together, and always reason to fight one another.
EfU is always tagged with the notion that it is a harsh, hardcore, and utterly ruthless. I have to admit that playing there left me on the edge, there was something extremely rewarding about day to day survival, the players, the DMs, the world itself is charming in the most sardonic sense of the word. It caters to the mind of certain players. It has its identity. Now, I'm not saying that CoA should follow suit and become as gloomy, but I think it should be given a new vibe. A vibe that reflects the servers setting. It seems to me that CoA attempted to move into something slammed into the state of constant conflict but because much of the playerbase. being largely unconfident in the combat form of PvP and the initial policies regarding PvP as well as a harsher stance on what the server considers griefing, it has backfired and the server has become what it is.
How about CoA returns to what players would imagine Cormyr to be like? Its such a vibrant, colourful setting but we make it so dark and gloomy that the players who take any enjoyment out of it might as well play on EfU. I don't mean become a carebear town with colourful rainbows and a statue of duckroll in a trollface, I mean return to the settings strengths. Noble Houses, Knights and Ladies, Kings, Princes and Pretenders, the forever bicking Courts of Arabel strewn with competing courtiers and dukes, the painting of chivilary and honour built upon the underhanded, backstabbing machinations of the ambitious and the greedy.
Make it less Lovecraftian, and more Arthurian.
With some sizzling gypsies thrown in.
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Lots of great points of how crap the server is now. Well, geee, I really feel encouraged to log on and do stuff for players. I've been doing stuff for players for months and months. I have three weeks off spending time with my family and already folks, both players and DMs have been wondering if I have left, or abandoned their plots or what ever.
As to the War between the Harts and the Legion I have watched faction after faction hold back on their support until they see which way the DMs are going to swing the battle and do nothing. Who cares if your faction is on the winning side or the loosing side. We need factions and players with guts to pick the loosing side or we have no war. There is no point kicking off the main point of the war while people are still waiting to see who'll win. Get out there, pick a side and win or loose, make it fun for people. We need blackguards who'll support the legion, not join it, and saints who'll lift the Red Harts and go with them. I have also seen some factions try and go it alone, because the Harts were not doing it themselves. It may make a great story for your three of four players, but is such going to make a great story for half or two thirds of the server. I'm not sure. Sometimes we have let such happen and it's been great. Other times we have let such happen and within weeks, we get a storm of criticism about how such and such should not have been allowed to change the server in the way they did. I hear time and time again, complaints about plot stealing. I'm not sure what to do about this as a DM. If I tell a player X, no, you can't get involved with this plot, because it belongs to Y, I get accused of favouritism. If I say to X, fine, here's the information you need for the plot and they go out and do it, player Y complains and says, I've been at this for months and now you give it to X. Sod that, I'm off. I really don't know what to do.
And, with the number of complaints I get, I wonder if I really should bother. Most of the time I log onto IRC, someone is complaining at me for this or that or the other. And half the time, someone else is complaining at me in another channel about the absolute opposite. It's a game I want to enjoy, but with the amount of complaints I'm getting I am really not enjoing it and am struggling to raise the spirit in me to take up plots, 'cos I know that when I do, another player will be whining at me because I'm not running their plot instead, or, I've given their plot to so and so, or, I've not run their plot in exactly the way they wanted, or they died to a stupid dire wolf, or they cannot manage to get above level 3 or that player X killed them in some crap PvP so they respawned, or that player Y has just respawned after some superb PvP and that's just crap or that faction Y is just sat in their HQ talking and not out and about making things fun for the independents or that … I've had enough of griping.
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"Make it less Lovecraftian, and more Arthurian."
in a single sentence I think BG has hit on what I personally thought was the strongest feature in CoA's past, he has said many things that I feel and had a hard time expressing, the veneer of romance painted over the foundations of ambition and greed
"this I mean return to the settings strengths. Noble Houses, Knights and Ladies, Kings, Princes and Pretenders, the forever bicking Courts of Arabel strewn with competing courtiers and dukes, the painting of chivilary and honour built upon the underhanded, backstabbing machinations of the ambitious and the greedy."
i remember the houses and factions did not get along, but would rally against threats, the civil war was for me the beginning of the end
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EfU did nothing but bore and utterly confuse me with all the complicated introductions. Frankly, I grow tired of comparing CoA with EfU. The only thing I would change about CoA is develop more conflict and intrigue with the factions. Make me want to oppose the Legion with more reason than "I hate undead!". Moar gray shade factions like Candlekeep and Varlets imo. Factions where you have no idea where they are going unless you actively get involved in their intrigue.
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Whilst I appreciate your input Khamal, EfU is more connected with the events of its past versions, thus, to a new player it might be overwhelming. It however has certain aspects that have made it constantly successful. My points were not to say we copy EfU with its dream sequences and "complicated" beginnings but that CoA would benefit from its own take on these little features that foster immersion from the very beginning - An interesting and immersive introduction into the world, background perks and origin feats, dynamic NPCs that shout out their wares or give you pause to suspect if they are possessed or not, a clearer understanding for players in terms of PvP, ability for PCs to sustain a postion of power such as being Mayor (This has already been experimented with and worked wonderfully with East Way.), and most importantly a central focus. Just some of the stuff we could implement.
I'd also like to point out to the playerbase that being a DM would be the single most annoying thing about this server. As a player, I have seen some really shit, insidious rage-quits with the bulk of it directed at the DMs, quite unfairly mind you. And sometimes I would be guilty of this myself. I know certain players, friends, who have become DMs and quit not long after because of the sheer pressure of having to please everyone, working hard at it, and then have all your efforts thrown in the gutter by comments that basically say you're doing it wrong. I've talked with more and more DMs privately in recent times and I've come to the conclusion that it is easy being a player and critisizing from afar but if you ever become a DM, you know how difficult it can be to please the masses and reach that balance. Other servers have reached it, we can, but we have to stop blaming eachother.
Abby, on the point of the war between the Harts and the Legion, I don't think players are responding, and have refered to it as yet another war being shoved down their throats in the form of two particular factions that have no bearing or any importance to them. Bhaliir, DeSchurr, Thond. The names were developed and enriched with history before being made to fight against one another proper, it became important to players to see the outcome through. This war? Not so much.
Again, this topic is not only for pointing out the flaws, and certainly not saying the "DMs are shit", because you'd probably wont do better in their shoes, but how we can take a lesson from our disgruntled offshoots to build up CoA to its potential again, what we can implement, and what we can foster to create a better server.
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@Khamal:
Make me want to oppose the Legion with more reason than "I hate undead!". Moar gray shade factions like Candlekeep and Varlets imo.
And that's the problem with Legion and the Red Hart war. Neither of these factions really offer players a reason to care about them unless you like chivalrous knights or guys who like to raise undead. It's more like WoW than anything else which is what I play CoA to get away from that sort of thing. Have factions with conflicting visions of which direction they want to take the city which will offer real change, not just who sits on it's throne.
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@Khamal:
Make me want to oppose the Legion with more reason than "I hate undead!". Moar gray shade factions like Candlekeep and Varlets imo.
And that's the problem with Legion and the Red Hart war. Neither of these factions really offer players a reason to care about them unless you like chivalrous knights or guys who like to raise undead. It's more like WoW than anything else which is what I play CoA to get away from. Have factions with conflicting visions of which direction they want to take the city which will offer real change, not just who sits on it's throne.
I disagree with this completely. I see this IG and I see it OOC.
To me it seems that it is a lack of immersion that make someone not care about whether they will be ruled by Queen Lahl or a Necromancer.
Imagine a RPG playing Sam in LoTR being safe in the Shire. Who cares about the war between Gondor and Mordor? Well Sam took sides and was part of an adventure. Those who did not take part sat back in the Shire saying "Who cares?".
This is up to the player who he/she wants to play as a character in CoA. But I believe it is unwarranted to blame the DM's plot line in this.
Your character may influence how Arabel will look in the future. Is there no difference in an Arabel again ruled by Lahl, or by Cormyr compared to an Arabel ruled by the Legion? And how can this not be a good plot? How can this not be important if you are not standing aside because you do not dare to take sides? Adventurers should be daring and than taking side is what you do.
It is actually beyond me to understand how a conflict between Evningstar and the Legion is not important (look at how the enviroment looks like and add an imagined smell of undeads and rotten corpses to Legion lands).
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ICly, the plot makes sense. But OOCly, it doesn't motivate. There are reasons for this.
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@Khamal:
Make me want to oppose the Legion with more reason than "I hate undead!". Moar gray shade factions like Candlekeep and Varlets imo.
And that's the problem with Legion and the Red Hart war. Neither of these factions really offer players a reason to care about them unless you like chivalrous knights or guys who like to raise undead. It's more like WoW than anything else which is what I play CoA to get away from. Have factions with conflicting visions of which direction they want to take the city which will offer real change, not just who sits on it's throne.
I disagree with this completely. I see this IG and I see it OOC.
To me it seems that it is a lack of immersion that make someone not care about whether they will be ruled by Queen Lahl or a Necromancer.
Thats a fair point, the thing isn't that there hasn't been. If having one of those two actually rule meant something for the average player than maybe people would have more incentive to get involved because they want to avoid very real consequences that would come with the other one in power.
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@Neolithic:
I honestly am starting to feel a bit underwhelmed with my character because of the current player climate. It'd too relaxed, too cozy. But I confess to not knowing how to shake things up, but I WANT to. I desperately want to ruin this hippie-dippie pacifism going on right now and get wild. But I'm not sure how. I'll gladly take advice, and I'm sure others reading this would appreciate it, too.
I feel the same with my current PC - Neo let's get together and smash people up, hit me up on IRC bro.
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I know certain players, friends, who have become DMs and quit not long after because of the sheer pressure of having to please everyone, working hard at it, and then have all your efforts thrown in the gutter by comments that basically say you're doing it wrong.
So so true. We work a lot to do things, please go easy on us.
But yeah, I think comparisons to efu should stop. We are very different servers and operate very different systems.
Some great points here truly, we will look into what is being said. My opinion remains the same as my OP.
How do you go about being a mover and shaker? (IMO)
Be bold. Do things, even if they bring potential risk to your character. It will be exciting for you, exciting for other players and catch the eye of DM's. You will gain OOC respect which builds to a reputation of you as a player.
Be interesting. Quite simple isn't it? Surely everyone knows this one? People don't follow or listen to someone who is boring. They don't want to seek them out for RP. Nor do they want to do things with them IG. You don't have to be a great RP'er for this, but having ideas, characters traits and depth all tend towards being interesting. Again, you will gain DM attention this way and I know I am far more likely to log in and come see what you're up to if you have shown in the past that you will entertain me! (Yeah I like to play as well)
TELL DM'S WHAT YOU'RE DOING. We can't watch everyone, we don't know everything. We can't check every forum. Send us a PM, a chat in IRC. Anything to let us know what you've done and what you plan to do. A DM might pick it up and be like 'Holy gillickers, that's awesome!' This is one of the biggest ways to get a DM to help you out IG.
Be engaging. Your character needs to be able to draw people to him, this isn't the same as being interesting as you need to have traits that make you need people as much as they might need you. Even the most powerful wizard in the world needs associates as well as minions. People get sidetracked by thier characters personalities so much they become incredibly two dimensional and miss out on potential allies/enemies. This enables you to have server wide effects. Once you have gained renown working on things is so much easier.
This list could most likely be expanded but I find these are the most basic things to pay attention to.
#MAKE A CHARACTER NOT A CLASS. <– Speaks for itself? Make people, people with flaws with emotions and with motivations. People with fears and strengths. I swear to god if I see another fighter stand toe to toe with a dragon that he has never seen in his life and be like...'What, bitch?' I am going to eat him. BE REAL! This is how to shake and move because this is how to play the game.