Greater Animal Buff discussion



  • Just a discussion as Zool suggested for people to give their views... Please be aware not to post spoilers of spells, reagents etc

    I've no problem with the spell being turned into single use, though I'd say the reagents are seemingly so rare it's unlikely to get much use in this manner. I've only ever found one reagent on my own initiative, and a second from someone else.

    Maybe if the result was a maximised greater Animal Buff, but this also seems needlessly OP.

    Things like stoneskin and haste are far more troublesome but they too warrant a dispel which will knock this out in short manner too.

    I would actually say with all of the crazy save builds possible these spells are needed to make a save or else character viable - though even then I tend to avoid preparing spells that can be negated with a dice roll.

    If these were Caster only, that would be better.

    All that said, I wouldn't miss them if turned into single use. Buff magery is the lowest form of wizardry!



  • The reagents are suitably rare.

    I'd just prevent them from stacking with the base animal spells and it should be fine



  • Well yeah, im pretty sure if we did go for material cost based system, then the materials required to cast them wouldn't be what they currently are to discover the spells, that would make them pretty hard to ever use.

    It was more about making it literally cost you something to cast the spell, probably gold.

    However, it seems like none stacking versions might end up being the way to go.

    I just hope it doesnt break druid owls insight in the process!



  • I necer had one of these spells cast on me.



  • I would allow them to be used as regular alterations, not single use; But maybe have them occupy two spell slots instead of one, or something? (As in, in order to cast this, you have to prep the bull's strength or something twice instead of once). It's a trade off; More casts of lesser spells, or one powerful cast of the spell.

    Thing is, if it's going to be one use only, then this is no different from the Greater animal buff potions that were already available in the module (I'm assuming the alterations are based off those) which leads me to wonder why have an alteration at all, as either way, you need to find an object to use. The only benefit I can see is perhaps the reagents are more common than the potions are, and maybe the potions don't cover all the stats (in this case, it might be valuable regardless) but I've seen greater endurance and strength drop on quests, and these are mostly the ones that people tend to use anyway.



  • My whole problem with this is that some of these spells are already a strong candidate for a second level slot. They last long, help questing immensely. I was a bit disappointed to see that alterations straightly improve one of the spells you'd use anyway.

    This also makes them rather OP, I agree a change is needed.
    However, making them one use only goes totally against the spirit of the alteration system. I'd rather just make the bonus lower, like turning it to d4+3 instead of the normal d4+1. Greater is high level a spell for a reason.



  • The alterations are 3rd circle actually



  • @verk said in Greater Animal Buff discussion:

    The alterations are 3rd circle actually

    I feel like they should be like... 5th.

    They are Innate level 6 spells according to the wiki

    And, druids get Owls Insight, as a 5th level spell.



  • 4th might be better. Would give the option of the typical stoneskin and improved invis or the greater animals



  • @zool said in Greater Animal Buff discussion:

    @verk said in Greater Animal Buff discussion:

    The alterations are 3rd circle actually

    I feel like they should be like... 5th.

    They are Innate level 6 spells according to the wiki

    And, druids get Owls Insight, as a 5th level spell.

    That is actually a really good point. I never even thought about it like that. If it stays the way it is now how you can use it unlimited times once you scribe, it should definitely be 5th circle.



  • I have deployed a fix that should prevent players from stacking the Greater variants with the normal ones, without harming other Traits along the way. Remains to be seen if it works and if players report back the exploits.


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