Seafaring paladins.
-
I've noticed a small problem with Paladins and going out to sea. That is, from what I understand, if you don't ask her nicely not to, and make sacrifices to her, Umberlee will crush the ship you're on and anyone else is pretty much acceptable collateral damage.
So as a Paladin, you have a choice. The first is to ask Umberlee nicely… but then there's this in the Paladins thread:
"A devil makes you an offer: he will gift you with a sizeable sum of gold - say, 10,000 gp - which he retrieved from the hoard of a long-dead miser. This is a gift, not a bargain, so you will owe him nothing. He simply wishes to have a paladin accept a gift from a devil. You can use this money to do good works, help the needy and so on. Do you accept the gift?"
What you'd be trying to do here is make a bargain with Umberlee. That is, you're not just accepting a gift offered to you, you are initiating an attempt to make a bargain.
So, that's worse by two steps than something already on the Paladin "don't do" list.The alternative is to risk the lives of everyone on that ship because you're stubborn. That's, frankly, kind of a jerk thing to do and therefore also not exactly Paladin-worthy.
Opinions, responses, shouts about how that's stupid?
-
You could always toss a few prayers to Umberlee's arch-rival, Valkur, or go on holy quest to retrieve an item of importance to him, that way he'd have a vested interest in protecting you in your nautical travels.
-
Yes.
Make the homicidal sea goddess angry. That's guaranteed to not be suicidal…Okay, no, you're actually quite right. That would probably be one of the best options available.
-
Praise Valkur?
You're a paladin- accept that your god will get you through anything and everything. Paying tribute to multiple gods is for commoners and cowards. You don't make offerings to Talona for your immunity to disease, or Auril when a blizzard hits, or Talos when you're golfing in platemail during a thunderstorm- your god shelters you from the other gods. You don't beg for protection from lesser deities, you are the right vengeful hand of a just and powerful being.
Learn to swim in platemail.
-
Praise Valkur?
You're a paladin- accept that your god will get you through anything and everything. Paying tribute to multiple gods is for commoners and cowards. You don't make offerings to Talona for your immunity to disease, or Auril when a blizzard hits, or Talos when you're golfing in platemail during a thunderstorm- your god shelters you from the other gods. You don't beg for protection from lesser deities, you are the right vengeful hand of a just and powerful being.
Learn to swim in platemail.
I suppose that's another way to go about it.
It's fun to play in a polytheistic world where there are actually multiple gods and powers and its not all a cat-fight to convince everyone else who's best. Your god IS, my god IS, and their god IS. Now all we have to do is find a way to exist together.
I've done both approaches with paladins in my years of PnP. Some were staunchly single-minded in their deity's superiority, others saw themselves as divine representatives and, while his god was the best for him, he was not above working with other faiths and sharing credit for good deeds.
Guess it depends on your paladin.
-
Yeah. She'll shield me, I can certainly trust her to do that.
But I'm still endangering every other person on the ship, because they're not bulwarks of Goodness pumped up to the eyeballs on LGeeroids, and as mentioned, she'll wipe you out and everyone on the ship.
Also, what platemail? I wear chain, and I'd even take that off if I'm going to be swimming, not fighting. And if a fight breaks out my deity will protect me.
Finally, deities specialize in their portfolios. You can pray to Mystra for a good harvest until it's time to collect next year's, but that's just not what she does.
-
I agree with Nikko. He's nailed it.
-
Except Nikko is wrong.
As a paladin, it is still perfectly acceptable to offer respect or honor to Valkur before sailing–unless your deity is a master sailor themselves already.
The Forgotten Realms is not Christian Europe. Very, very few members of its society are religious zealots who refuse to show any respect or honor to other deities, even amongst clerics and paladins it is extremely rare and highly suspect by others.
More so, paladins are the epitome of chivalry and should always be respectful and honorable. The seas are Valkur's domain, you should always knock before entering another's home and there is no dishonor in giving a prayer to Valkur before entering his.
-
Praise Valkur?
You're a paladin- accept that your god will get you through anything and everything. Paying tribute to multiple gods is for commoners and cowards. You don't make offerings to Talona for your immunity to disease, or Auril when a blizzard hits, or Talos when you're golfing in platemail during a thunderstorm- your god shelters you from the other gods. You don't beg for protection from lesser deities, you are the right vengeful hand of a just and powerful being.
Learn to swim in platemail.
Excellent sarcasm!
-
Moloch is right though. There's no problem with respecting and honouring other gods. Just don't forsake your own. :wink:
-
Valkur is not the problem here, he's chaotic good, so a paladin is hardly compelled to snub him, as Moloch said. The problem is the very evil and very vindictive Bitch Queen.
I don't know what canon says, actually. Does Umberlee sink every ship where only one passenger has not paid sacrifices or at least lip service to her? Or is Valkur's protection enough to avert her wrath? Or would some offerings made by some sailor, or even the captain, be enough? -
A paladin is not likely to pray to Umberlee for any reason. He's forbidden from associating with evil, that includes Umberlee obviously.
-
Valkur is not the problem here, he's chaotic good, so a paladin is hardly compelled to snub him, as Moloch said. The problem is the very evil and very vindictive Bitch Queen.
I don't know what canon says, actually. Does Umberlee sink every ship where only one passenger has not paid sacrifices or at least lip service to her? Or is Valkur's protection enough to avert her wrath? Or would some offerings made by some sailor, or even the captain, be enough?No, Umberlee does not sink every ship that has a single passenger that does not pay her homage. Nor does she NOT sink ships where every passenger DOES pay her homage.
If she wants your ship, she's taking it. Hence, the Bitch Queen. She's just sort of a bitch.
-
Valkur is not the problem here, he's chaotic good, so a paladin is hardly compelled to snub him, as Moloch said. The problem is the very evil and very vindictive Bitch Queen.
I don't know what canon says, actually. Does Umberlee sink every ship where only one passenger has not paid sacrifices or at least lip service to her? Or is Valkur's protection enough to avert her wrath? Or would some offerings made by some sailor, or even the captain, be enough?No, Umberlee does not sink every ship that has a single passenger that does not pay her homage. Nor does she NOT sink ships where every passenger DOES pay her homage.
If she wants your ship, she's taking it. Hence, the Bitch Queen. She's just sort of a bitch.
True, she's cruel and not very picky, but not having given her the necessary respects does decrease your chances of safe arrival dramatically, and that of your companions.
-
I'm sure the paladin is willing to take that risk.
-
I'm sure the paladin is willing to take that risk.
Take the risk of being washed away? Yes, likely, being immune to fear and all.
But a lot less taking the risk of endangering others. -
whiiiiich is why they would pray to Valkur…
-
Would a paladin necessarily fall for giving a prayer to Umberlee?
Umberlee is undeniably a part of the world, if Umberlee is not a special enemy of the gods patron, then why not offer the "traditional" tithe, prayer or ritual what have you before setting to sea?
Bowing your head and saying some vague prayer to the godess before setting to sea does not seem all that evil. She is not being honored as an evil goddess, but a goddess of a natural force, would a paladin really fall for that?
What does Mystra care if one of her paladins asks Umberlee to spare him on a long and perilous sea journey?
-
Would a paladin necessarily fall for giving a prayer to Umberlee?
Umberlee is undeniably a part of the world, if Umberlee is not a special enemy of the gods patron, then why not offer the "traditional" tithe, prayer or ritual what have you before setting to sea?
Bowing your head and saying some vague prayer to the godess before setting to sea does not seem all that evil. She is not being honored as an evil goddess, but a goddess of a natural force, would a paladin really fall for that?
What does Mystra care if one of her paladins asks Umberlee to spare him on a long and perilous sea journey?
Paladins are not allowed to associate with evil. Having a cup of tea with someone you know to be evil is pushing your luck.* Praying to evil -and she's evil, whether that's the aspect you're focusing on or not- would most certainly be against that rule.
And insincere prayers, together with being some of those lies they can't tell, would generally be lying to a deity, and that's just bound to go wrong. I think they know when worship isn't real.*possibly a slight exaggeration.
-
this is a silly thread you can't even sail in NWN.
