Motivation Killers



  • I have been fighting and struggling to keep my motivation up for awhile now, being positive and upbeat, and overally trying to roll with the punches, however there are a few things that keep showing up that make it excedingly difficult for me to want to play here anymore and I wanted to share with hopes that no one else gets demotivated as much as me. This is a good server and fun community, however, we keep losing players in trickles and I feel like I'm about to join them.

    1. Conflict of Policy - The best example of this I can come up with is the PvP and player killing policy. It is constantly harped in the forums that killing another player permenantly should be a last resort after a long conflict and story. IG however, I have noticed this is not upheld. Two examples off the bat are my druid Amam. Amam got what was coming to him IC. It was completely in character for the people in question to kill him and he probably deserved it so I had no OOC hate for the characters, just a little dissapointment that my story was over. The situation however, comes up when the DM overseeing Amam's sacrifice gives the player who killed him superpowers. Now Amam was only maybe 2 or 3 weeks old max, so there wasn't much of a long and drawn out conflict and story. It was a conflict of maybe a few days. Again, not hate to the player but giving someone a huge reward FOR killing someone seems in stark contrast to the policy.

    Second, the capture of Oscar and the attempted escape. Oscar deserved his execution as he has been on the most wanted list for a LOOOONG time, however, the two that fought to rescue him, neither of them had been wanted nor had long term conflict with anyone involved in the incident and both of them were executed as well. Again, this seems to go against everything the DM's are putting forth as policy. Granted, I have also seen reward for deathless PvP, such as beating someone down for insulting a god or some such without looting them or doing any permenant damage, but it still doesn't seem like the DM's are consistantly sticking to their own policy.

    2. Unattainable Rewards/Unclear requirments - This one amounts mainly to promotions within groups, however, also goes towards plots and other situations resulting from DM interaction. The best examples I can bring up are the seeminly random promotions I've seen as of late. Dante had no desire to ever join the agents, in fact he was pretty much working with criminals sometimes just to find out who was best to work for and just kinda settled on the council. Granted, his actions in the advisors got him good points so he shifted a bit more noble but he was still a pirate. He and another character (a character whom had been trying to join the agents from creation) captured a criminal by sheer right place at the right time. Dante was then promoted to Agent, while the other character had to wait weeks afterward to take an agent trial (along with a group of others who had been waiting weeks for an agent trial). Now, it was a cool story and lead to alot of fun for some people, however, I can only imagine how the others felt. Weeks of work and TRYING for a faction, only to see someone get it by accident? Had to feel like a kick in the balls. There is currently more than one PC IG whoes motivation and goal is to become a Knight of the Council and has been working hard and creating fun and events for others to this end. (This time not me) Suddenly we have 3 brand new citadel Knights who are rewarded by the circumstance that they happened to be involved in a single DM event that others only couldn't make it due to lack of announcement or time zone differences. The PC's working towards this goal have been doing so for weeks and have been through several events and done stuff even without a Dm toward this plot and not a few PC's are circumstancially rewarded for being at the right place at the right time. That HAS to be a kick in the balls for the people who have actively been working this and haven't just been a jump on the bandwagon recently.

    3. Players playing Dicks - This is completely different than Players BEING dicks. This is not an ooc jab at anyone as no one has been an OOC dick to me lately. This has to do with the sudden desire and influx to play a character who is a dick. They're either a Dick because they have status and they lord it over people, they are a dick because they serve another god, they are a dick because… well they just enjoy being a dick, or they are a dick because they think their Knightly Code is better and you are inferior to them, they are a dick because they are an angry dwarf, they are a dick because this or that... but in the end they are all dicks. Sometimes it creates comedy, sometimes its fun, but when a vast majority of ALL of my RP interactions with ANYONE either degrades into or gets interupted by characters who just want to have a pissing contest or insult people for ten minutes, it gets really old, really fast.

    4. DM's Trolling/DM's Punishing people - I prefer a DM team that is open and honest rather than trying to be mysterious and reclusive. They were all players at one point too so I don't understand why when the account changes, they suddenly act differnt. A little feedback could go a LONG way towards a more inclusive and lively server. If a player is doing something that seems like it could use a little adjustment to be more fun, let them know and give them advice. If a player created an event that just doesn't work, let them know, give them advise or ask them to reschedule when they have more information rather than troll them for hours and make their hard work worthless. If a player is exibiting a behavior which makes you doubt their ability to handle an app character, TELL them. Don't just leave them in limbo, deny them, and let them feel like they can't put a story together. If a player is doing good things and the DM team likes what they are doing, give them some feedback or throw them a bone/reward. The best example for myself is Mayvar. I quit Mayvar because my interactions with players and my struggle to get involved made me feel like he was a failed character and a failed story... only to find out later that I get an app denied because I quit him while others saw him as at a height of a good story and involvment. My IC interactions and lack of ability to get anything going made me quit him because I didn't believe I was bringing any fun to the server with him... no one told me, no one involved me in anything so I quit him to try to think of something better. If someone had either given me feedback or thrown me a bone to show I was donig the right things, I'd never have quit him. Was also losing motivation with Dante because DM's either trolled me or derailed my plots in front of people to make me look like an idiot. It takes a great deal of abuse for a character whoes entire point is to be comic relief just becomes annoying to log on from too many slaps in the face. I've seen this in other areas too. Making it damn near impossible to solve anything... requireing weeks or months to solve a plot or puzzle that all we have to go on is a few words... when suddenly someone walks out of the woodwork, goes on 1 event and a DM allows them to solve an entire plot in one day that groups of people have been working for a long time and including people in events for weeks or months.

    Overall, if you say you want to reward people for including others and making stories.... do it. I have in the last year seen more people with DM loot and IG status/power who just happened to be at the right event but did NOTHING up till that point to earn it, than I have players who have worked hard to invovle others to get their loot/status/promotion. I have seen DM's give really awesome events for a player's first attempt to do anything and then really crappy events for players who have been involving others in a plot for a long time. I have been on both sides of this argument. I have been rewarded for no hard work and I have worked hard and gotten kicked in the balls with different characters. It isn't a good thing even when you benifit from it.

    I love this server, I love the community and I have no ill will towards anyone. I just really have no more motivation to put time and effort into the server right now with the way things are and I don't want to see any more people get to my point. I will end this with a Thank you to our DM team for all the hard work and extra hours they have been putting in. I'm glad you have done so much and my donations to the server will continue, as I still support the things you all do, I just need to take a long break until the server climate changes as I cannot play in this envirorment.



  • I don't have time to write up a post as big as that but I do agree with most of the points.

    The server won't improve if the DMs don't tell players what they're doing wrong and how to fix it.
    Rewards should be attainable to everyone that do plots, not just those that arrive late, or those that have spent months working on it, if your character does something worthy of a reward you should receive a reward.
    Players playing dicks keeps the world spitting.
    DMs shouldn't have secret shit lists (If they do, I haven't witnessed it), there are tools that can be used to punish bad or nonsense roleplaying that doesn't require the murder of players through unfair spice. (Again, I haven't witnessed this.)



  • @latoksinned:

    1. Conflict of Policy - The best example of this I can come up with is the PvP and player killing policy. It is constantly harped in the forums that killing another player permenantly should be a last resort after a long conflict and story.

    Most this confused me because: You can't permanently PK anyone without their permission. That includes DMs (typically) and anyone executed is free to get a Raise Dead or respawn after the two week waiting period.

    2. Unattainable Rewards/Unclear requirments -

    Can't get clearer than this: What DMs want! People not earning this stuff are likely not doing what DMs want. If they're upset, they are free to calmly talk to us about what they want to do if they want these DM rewards.

    3. Players playing Dicks -

    Yeah, that's unfortunate with a smaller player base–but people can play what they want.

    4. DM's Trolling/DM's Punishing people -

    Since I know 100% that we've given you the exact feedback you ask for here, I'm baffled why you're bringing it up. Any player who feels we're not being clear can ask us for clarity. I'm always happy to explain things. I don't know about some specific "thing" with Dante, but all the DM posts about him were actually positive with nothing negative being said–so no plot to derail him.



  • I've finally recieved some feedback as to my questions. Not going to lie, most of it was "NUH UH, it's not our fault!" but there were some good bits I'll share:

    Players who appear to be getting random promotions are not getting random promotions. These are rewards for players who actualy get out and do things without a DM. The seemingly "random" promotion of Dante was due to him catching a criminal on his own initiative, rather than waiting around for a DM to run something. The purpose was to motivate people who want to be agents to actually fight crime and prove themselves instead of asking a DM for a trial. The Knights were promoted because they completed a DM-less plot when a forum post was clearly stated "If you get this you'll be promoted." Obviously I'm not privy to the council forums so I was unaware of this being a DM-Less Plot nor the promise of promotion. Both of these were an attempt by the DM team to motivate others to do stuff without a DM, however, in the case of Dante, it was not made clear to anyone by NPCs or DM Feedback.

    The "Players Playing Dicks" post was not a shot at anyone. Everyone is free to play how they want and the DM's can't change that. It was merely an observation of why the server has become toxic to me PERSONALLY, not something I expect or think should change as it might be just me who feels that way.

    In terms of what the DM's post in the DM forums, none of the player base is privy to that. I know I'm in a weird time zone where the DM's can be at often (if at all) so I don't get to see DM events very often. So when I only get one or two DM events and they are comprised of me being trolled for two hours and acomplishing nothing, not even fun for others, it doesn't paint a very good picture of what I think the DM's think of my characters. The event in question LITERALLY comprised of Dante using up a ton of ritual reagants in a joint prayer to umberlee for a safe and passage and thirlling adventure. The reagents were taken with little fanfair (woo hoo, you have a safe passage and the one guy who didn't give an offering got sea sick), followed by a fey spirit trolling Dante and telling people not to help him anymore for almost TWO HOURS. No spawns, no loot of any kind, and no progression of story… straight and unadulterated trollage and telling people not to involve themselves in my events anymore, almost directly.

    Again, my experience with the Player Plot forum and with the Dm team so far is that when I try to push anything or do stories and plots, no one really cares and is just neglecting to tell me they don't want to push it. If this is not true, obvioulsy its because no one is actually giving me feedback like you say they are Moloch. The DM's are busy and don't always have alot of time to run something, but a simple NPC forum post or an OOC "Good job" would probably go a long way. I'm willing to guess the players who DIDN'T find the wheat king's head might not have known it was completely DMless, hence their continual reliance on DM events. Just saying, it doesn't appear you are all being as open as you claim. If what you are all saying is true, then you make really good points but unfortunately most of your EVIDENCE of these good points is locked away in your secret clubhouse so if you want to improve moral with everyone, start talking to people. My NPC forum and IG DM interactions as of late for my characters has done nothing but make me believe my plots are stupid if the DM's Troll/insult/ignore my characters. I haven't quit characters because they got boring, I quit characters because the interactions I was having, lead me to believe they I was playing a shitty character.



  • Second, the capture of Oscar and the attempted escape. Oscar deserved his execution as he has been on the most wanted list for a LOOOONG time, however, the two that fought to rescue him, neither of them had been wanted nor had long term conflict with anyone involved in the incident and both of them were executed as well. Again, this seems to go against everything the DM's are putting forth as policy. Granted, I have also seen reward for deathless PvP, such as beating someone down for insulting a god or some such without looting them or doing any permenant damage, but it still doesn't seem like the DM's are consistantly sticking to their own policy.

    Oscar was on the most wanted list mostly for FDing other people, it finally happening to him isn't any kind of injustice towards the player. Although I will of course point out that it was the embassy attack by the latter two PCs that resulted in his final death.

    The other two PCs DID have conflict with some of us, even if you didn't. I had been involved in PvP with Andrei since level 5 or so. And I'd remind you that they came into the embassy FDing other people before the favor was returned to them. Mind you I don't have a problem with anything they did, or anything anyone else did.

    You aren't ever going to get a satisfactory answer to when it's appropriate to kill another player. It comes down to one or two things.

    1. They did something that warrants dying.
    2. Enough of a story has been told to warrant someone dying.

    I wouldn't say both criteria need to be filled, but perhaps it's better if so.

    And for the first stepping stone, there's more to it than just your CE insane barbarian's opinion on who deserves death. My rule of thumb is that I don't FD people unless we've had a decent conflict/story for a little while, or if I was attacked with the intention of FD or capture that would lead to execution. I pull no punches there, and don't expect people to pull punches when I do the same. When your LG non-conflict oriented character is helping to attack the outcast villain with a gank squad intent on capture or slaying, but you are in turn killed and proceed to freak out about how unfair it is and how trigger happy that PC is.. this is an incredibly shitty and inconsiderate attitude to have. Don't want to die? Don't get involved in PvP, or in politics, or in plots in general. Sorry, this is a PvP server and it always has been. We just don't like seeing PCs die for no reason generally.



  • I feel that PvP happy Players should concentrate on fighting other PvP happy players, not with the wider base on players that have neither the skill nor inclination to oppose a PvP happy PC. Its always the same few people who play PvP happy PCs. The problem is that they are usually all on the same team, and one or two of them can usually take on the entire server by themselves. As a team, they are unopposed. This has often been the case.

    What happens? Because they have an OOC skill, they are unbeatable. DMs shower rewards on them for being able to kill other PCs, FD them, and end their stories.

    But this isn't the main problem this server has.

    The main problem this server has is that any time and every time a player thinks there is a problem, this is treated as a complaint, and a vicious attack. People get defensive. People get passive aggressive. People bring up problems because they want to solve problems. Stop seeing it as an attack. See it as an opportunity.



  • I've noticed over the past few weeks DMs constantly stressing the fact that the player plot forum is rather inactive. If people make their character goals clear there, specifically, it might give the DMs more to go on so there's less confusion and frustration. It's impossible to guess what a PC's goals are when there's no format to list them in. A thug who was known IG to have attacked an Agent could either be a crusader of freedom from Hardcastle's oppression or just a straight up brigand who wants to sell people Bloodstones and jumpstart a gang of their own.

    More clear, specific, and to the point communication between DMs and players can make things far more efficient and make people happier with their plots. There's nothing wrong with the DM team nor the playerbase, there's just a lack of communication between the two. There's no point in getting riled up or pointing fingers at anyone. We're all here to have fun, and the only ones stopping us from doing that are ourselves.



  • I can understand the need to air your thoughts. And I think you, Latok, have done so in a rather constributing way. One of the very first things I learned at business School, was that problems are never solved when they are outright denied by the accused. If your product has faults, one should never be affraid to admit it, as they will never get solved otherwise.
    That said, what we as a community need to understand, is that at some point, negative thoughts and airing what you find unproductive will eventually spread like a cancer into the minds of all around you, if not conducted in a careful manner. If all your colleagues hear is how bad the work envoirement is, eventually, despite initially being happy about their place of employment, will start to make them see everything negatively also.

    We are having trouble, CoA. No argument there. Something isnt working, we are bleeding players. Is it because we lack active dms? Likely so. Is it that currently the server feels static? Very likely, But is it also because we as a community have fixated on all the negative things, that we forget all that makes this place a wonder?

    Without sounding like Ghandi Wannabe V3, perhaps we should use the New Year to wipe the slates clean. Once all of our dms and players both return from their drunken state, approach Arabel with a open heart, a desire for storytelling, and a lust for adventure. If you find something is bad, consider it once, twice, three times, before airing said negative feelings either to other players, or by posting on the forum.

    If someone is being too much of a dick IC, then catch them in the act, and say "Dude, does it have to be like this?" If you feel a dm is railroading your plot, or is trolling you, rather than letting the cancer fester, ask them then and there, about what is happening.

    In the last year, on every dm encounter I have had, I have sought to give either positive or negative feedback depending on how it went. If I used too many consumables but got no reward, Id inform them of such. If it was fun, I TOLD THEM. But that way, the negative feelings do not carry with you when you log off.

    PS, a bit of Psychology Lore from the Consumer Behavior expert: Negative feelings, outweigh Positive feelings 20-1. That means, if you have a negative experience, you need 20 positive, reinforcing experiences to not consider whatever caused the negative experience to be viewed negatively. Thats how your mind works. Which first of all, means that something bad might not be as bad as you initially sought; But also that you need to keep a very positive outlook not to be sucked in by all the negative crap.



  • @Thune:

    What happens? Because they have an OOC skill, they are unbeatable. DMs shower rewards on them for being able to kill other PCs, FD them, and end their stories.

    I'm just going to point this out and say that I have NEVER, EVER received DM loot for winning PvP, killing another character or ending their story.



  • @Mortui:

    @Thune:

    What happens? Because they have an OOC skill, they are unbeatable. DMs shower rewards on them for being able to kill other PCs, FD them, and end their stories.

    I'm just going to point this out and say that I have NEVER, EVER received DM loot for winning PvP, killing another character or ending their story.

    One of my recent characters was FDed and sacrificed. When I ended up working with said sarcificing character less than a week later, he was showing off super powers he got for killing my PC. Not that big of a deal, however, it left a minor sour taste in my mouth that someone was given something so powerful just for kililng another player. Nothing BIG has been bad enough to make me this disgruntled, it has been little nickel and dime things that add up and DM's brushing me off or aside when I try to talk to them about them. The only big problem that I feel is killing me is the DM's complete and total inability to admit fault in anything. A great deal of the server problems could be fixed by the player base but anytime something comes up the DM's are all like NO WE DON'T! Even when it is clear that YES THEY DO. If a player comes to you with a problem like "Hey, so and so DM did something I think is unfair" and your response is "You must have done something to deserve it" or "You just have to know the inner-workings of how they think and read their mind." Your constant push for players to talk to you and post in the player plot forum is awesome, however, we can't read your minds either. We don't know what you are planning, thinking etc if you don't tell us. If you have motivation behind a decision and none of the players know what it is, it's not going to have the effect you want. If we are hemoraging players then SOMETHING is causing that. I'm not saying its the DMs fault but what I am saying is if we want this server to survive, the players and the DM's have to work together insead of propogating this "Us" vs "Them" mentality, which I can see getting worse as we go along.

    This may just be me, but I'm a social dissident politically because I don't trust anyone who has secret meetings and makes big decisions but keeps the masses uninformed and treats them like inferiors. This kinda bleeds over to CoA a little bit. CoA will get spurts of being perfect on the relationship level, where DM's are open, honest, listen to players and act as if they are just another player given the responsibility of making fun for others. It, however, also goes through long stints of the DM's acting like a government and council, it is in these times, where I notice the lowest server numbers and most complaining posts. The New DM's usualually mainting the player's mindset for a while before falling into the government mindset, it usually gets worse the less active DM's there are. The full team of Zool, Lizard, Moloch, Puffy, Conquistidor and Hominid that we had for awhile was one of the most open, best feedback, most caring and most productive DM team I've seen in a long time. Maybe it's just the stress of having a smaller active DM team, but I noticed the lower the active DM numbers, the more secretive, seculded and defensive the DM's get.

    Most of this post is a rant but this here is what I really wanted to get across with this whole topic more than anything:

    In the end, unsolicted feedback goes a long way and is all I'm really asking for. If a player is doing everything you want them to (Posting in player plot forum, involving others, making stories, building fun), then waiting for them to come to you with a problem means it's already too late. If a player is doing something right then let them know on the forums ICly or OOCly if you can't make it to their events/time zone. If a player is doing good things but could use moving on a better track, drop an IC hint… something more than a complete murder mystery style puzzle and if that doesn't work maybe let them know OOC how they could improve or why their direction doesn't work.



  • @Mr.Moloch:

    @latoksinned:

    1. Conflict of Policy - The best example of this I can come up with is the PvP and player killing policy. It is constantly harped in the forums that killing another player permenantly should be a last resort after a long conflict and story.

    Most this confused me because: You can't permanently PK anyone without their permission. That includes DMs (typically) and anyone executed is free to get a Raise Dead or respawn after the two week waiting period.

    I just wanna bring this up, because while it doesn't kill my motivation (as I am a robot) it has had an impact on the character concepts I actually bring into reality and how I play my characters in general. While the official stance is truly, yes, you can respawn - there's a very deeply held belief among players that it's kind of a poor thing to do from a roleplay perspective. It's a serious hit to one's intangible OOC street cred. Conflict is going to happen. It's going to be resolved with violence. The problem with Arabel, specifically, is that this sort of resolution typically eventually ends with an FD and a baleeted character, which doesn't add a whole lot to the server since it's pretty sapping to go from playing a higher-end character to helping Frin hunt butt-rats, so people take breaks after.

    But conversely - and this is the weird part - characters are typically really dedicated to things and will die, or kill, for them at the drop of a hat. Someone like that in real life? They're a goddamn psychopath. Obviously most players are mature enough to refrain from FDing during the first few conflicts, but it's ultimately a hollow gesture because it doesn't solve anything for a simple reason.

    There's a very distinct lack of fear for character mortality, which is in itself self-imposed. Because that's not rewarded. Your choices are 'coward,' 'extremely powerful', or 'dead.' It's a kind of character Darwinism. You lose a fight? Admitting defeat is for old people. Go get swole, try again. In my experience you can beat someone within an inch of their life - literally 100-0 them in a round - have them drowning in a pool of their own blood as you monologue about the superiority of your doctrine, and they will heroically stand up in defiance just to flip you the bird (and usually call you a coward for winning.) Sometimes they'll even come for retribution minutes or hours later. Many times characters will escalate a conflict to a beatdown and robbing over perfectly reasonable punishments, and it just spirals into crazy fights. Hell, even I'm guilty of most of all this, but I don't really know what to do about it.

    I don't think this is a problem that falls within the DM's jurisdiction, or maybe even capacity, to fix. Honestly I don't know if it's something that can be fixed. Characters need to be more open to making peace and negotiating, but accomplishing that is nearly impossible as most characters are designed to be religiously violent and hate each other.

    There's also the other side of the coin, where not FDing the other guy means you're leaving yourself open for revenge when they return. You have to gauge if they're going to be able to beat you, if they'll bring help, if they'll be twitchier around the FD trigger than you. Logically, from a purely mechanical standpoint, there is no reason to leave someone you PvP alive. Ever. One of you is going to end up dead over hurt feelings at that point and it is a fact. I have literally only ever had one conflict where that almost didn't happen. It still did.

    Just as an aside: I've noticed this, but I never stated it bugged me. I enjoy concepting and don't mind rolling through a lot of characters and taking breaks between them. It lets me get to know a lot of the community from both sides.



  • The 'super power' you spoke of was nothing more than a flavour item rewarded to draw more players into the group and create interest in the God. I only ever used the vampiric touch 2/day for the blood sport events we tried to run, when I was showing a member of the group who missed the sacrifice and when I was too lazy to heal sometimes. For the most part it was only used as an RP tool.

    I do, however, understand that any reward based on FD can send the wrong message if not handled maturely. Players should strive to find reasons not to kill each other to create conflict and long term rivalries.



  • Before anyone gets upset with me, i will state i am 100% guilty of what i write below, but i do recognize that we, players, must change it!

    I'll tell you what has been killing my motivation. Quest train mentality. That's right. Quest train mentality has reached a point where even i am baffled by it. It's all i see 90% of the time. It's all i see in IRC. Mechanical talk and people talking about how they crushed this and that quest. We spend entire days questing and then complain that nothing is happening plot wise. To fix it, we must first recognize the problem. Granted, of course, some players are indeed doing awesome, but they need more support from the rest of the players too!

    If even half the energy we spent on quest trains went into doing awesome plot stuff, we'd see a gigantic improvement 😉



  • I need to answer Thune a little as well.

    "I feel that PvP happy Players should concentrate on fighting other PvP happy players, not with the wider base on players that have neither the skill nor inclination to oppose a PvP happy PC. Its always the same few people who play PvP happy PCs. The problem is that they are usually all on the same team, and one or two of them can usually take on the entire server by themselves. As a team, they are unopposed. This has often been the case.

    What happens? Because they have an OOC skill, they are unbeatable. DMs shower rewards on them for being able to kill other PCs, FD them, and end their stories."

    This is a wrong attitude to have. If someone starts to fight you over something you're doing, it means you're doing SOMETHING right to motivate said player to go against you. PvP is not an exclusive part of the game, it's a mix of roleplaying, ooc consideration, conflict, questing, involving others and mechanical prowess. Every single one of these aspects matters. And not everyone can be a mechanical powerhouse at every given time, it -IS- a part of the game, but so is everything else. Yes, it has happened that someone gets very powerful and throws his weight around irresponsibly, but luckily, it happens so rarely that everyone remembers when it does and those kind of people just don't last here.



  • It's a PvP server. When you pursue plots or engage in politics, you invite PvP from those who aren't aligned with you.

    But it's total bullshit to say that all PvP happy players group together.


  • Storyteller [DM]

    I want to again stress the importance of communication. Anyone is welcome to come to me with ideas, concerns, and questions. I spend a huge amount of time trying to answer these, and am happy to do it.

    If something that happens leaves a bad taste in your mouth, come talk to us! Yes, I might just say "Suck it up" but I might be able to change your perspective on something as well. I might also say "Yeah that was shitty, sorry." If something was really done poorly or against the rules, I might change it. Understand, we dislike retconning things. "Roll with the punches" is something we as DMs must also do.

    If you want feedback, ask us for it! We are way too busy and have too many players to be writing report cards. In general if you are earning promotions, loot, and perks, it means we think you are doing well.

    Lastly, please do communicate your plot ideas to us. It might not always be apparent, but we -do- use this to tailor things for people. If nothing else, we might offer you some pointers if we think your idea is unrealistic or won't work well. Keep in mind that we have a very good perspective for determining what work and what doesn't. If you find a DM is spicing your exploration, do tell them what you are hoping to do and accomplish. I will usually ask, but telling us yourself means you can be pretty sure we won't just do whatever we feel like.



  • As I see all this it comes down to these:

    1. Lack of dms and their activity. -> I'd suggest making a system like they have on efu so we could have a bit more dms. I'd rather have 10 less active dms than 2 very active ones. The game is so old that most players here should have their fundamentals down tight about the setting etc. to be able to be dm.
    2. Lack of communication between players and dms. -> DMs don't get proper info on plot forum or through pms from most players but those who do send them pms and know you gotta bombard them in dm chat (IG) and with pms get results on their adventure (most of those guys were former dms) and furthering their plots. You will always get to a point where you can't move your plots further than what you need a dm for. Surely you can repeat the same adventure over and over without a dm but at some point if you don't get results as no dm turn up it will become static.
    Another factor is how dms here focus on hiding "bad feelings" instead of talking with the player. I understand from the dms side that sometimes it's not constructive criticism from the player's side but most of the time it is but it is handled as destructive criticism and tried to be put away furthering the player's annoyance and giving a bad vibe overall.



  • 1). Lack of DMs isn't easy to solve. I know people think it is, but honestly, one bad DM is worse than 10 inactive ones. I don't want a shitty DM who lacks creativity, won't work with a team, and causes more problems than fun. It is why we have always been careful about who we choose as a DM.

    2). I'm always happy to communicate.



  • As Olouth said, 20 positive thoughts just to negate a negative one.

    Perhaps everyone in this thread should turn to viewtopic.php?t=169364 and try to be POSITIVE as opposed to NEGATIVE. It would definitely make me a lot happier to see more people talking about what they LIKE on CoA as opposed to rants about what is so wrong with the game and community.



  • Moloch I know you dms are happy to communicate but sometimes the WAY it's communicated is detrimental for the communication between the two. And when was the last time you had a bad dm that was worse than 10 inactive ones and why? Because I have experienced dms here who lacked creativity but never any dm who hurt the server. Only from ages past before I started playing here myself. I can hardly see any of the more experienced players here turning out to be a bad dm if they received the dmship.

    Dobby you can't just look away from the beast that's trying to eat you and hope it won't. Sometimes you have to look the negative face to face and those who can't are the ppl who lose at the end of the day. Which is why I find these topics healthy as long as ppl don't start throwing the white towel in the ring or start flaming.


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