Motivation.
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CoA needs to become a true sandbox where player's can tell interesting stories and involve other people in their goals no matter how small or big they are.
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DMs need to let players become the head of a faction, run a district, take over a town, kill a god, raise a god. This stuff needs to happen more, but then the players need to want to do it / have the drive to make it happen and make it interesting
You can run a faction. You can take over a district. You can take over a town. You can even kill gods. Perhaps raise them. Why should this happen more? Especially the three last ones? Epic things happen rarely, otherwise they are not epic.
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DMs need to let players become the head of a faction, run a district, take over a town, kill a god, raise a god. This stuff needs to happen more, but then the players need to want to do it / have the drive to make it happen and make it interesting
You can run a faction. You can take over a district. You can take over a town. You can even kill gods. Perhaps raise them. Why should this happen more? Especially the three last ones? Epic things happen rarely, otherwise they are not epic.
Nah you can't, not through just player initiative. People say you can, but when push comes to shove it won't happen as a player driven thing. It'll only happen as part of the DM plot.
lavishfeast did the first two, but he's a sexy little beast who thinks outside the CoA box
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Three players have conquered Arabel now, but player initiative isn't the only part of it. Working toward it and having a lot of luck along the way is vital.
Belaern's full name is "Belaern, Scourge of the Gods", so that's something. But yeah, you can't have gods dying every day.
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They can't, but when a god does die I would expect a little more to be made of it than just changing the signs on the shrine of Tymora to say ''Tyche''
I was massively disappointed with the lack of fallout from that. Why wasn't Belaern put in the Tymoran / Tychan challenge? Where were the street preachers? Where were the pilgrims arriving to the city? Where was the heretical offshoot of the faith proclaiming Tymora didn't die and it was a whole scam etc etc
So, so much could have been made from it and it didn't happen.
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The general public doesn't have a stake anymore because they don't see a reason to feel strongly towards one way or the other. There is simply not enough incentive in order for people to want to pick a side when they can lose nothing by staying neutral. They don't see that they will gain something either way.
I don't know if I can ever stress this enough. But the problem in my opinion is that the focus lately has shifted so much away from RP in favour of accomplishing things. Players do not see what they can gain from taking a side? Really? They would be playing their characters by doing so! There is a castle full of evil knights and undead that fights another castle full of valiant and good knights. If you cannot find in your character a reason to take a side, well, I'll be blunt, your character must be very shallow, lacking any kind of depth. What better is there than a staple of the fantasy genre like the war between the Two Towers? If even in such a situation you are looking to gain something, well something is definitely wrong.
This game really is just about telling stories. Playing rich characters. And DM quests, factions, plots, everything is secondary. The only thing that can make your game enjoyable is to react to other players and have other players react to yours. No matter who you have come to be, what you have accomplished. If this is lacking, after a while you'll be nothing but a tool that pushes plots.
So many times I log to see 10-15 people logged and nothing happening. And people complaining that nothing is happening. But this game is about interaction. Nothing else. Just speak with people. Come up with a good story. Spread it. Listen to someone else's story. If you are bored and nothing is happening, look for someone, maybe someone you don't know and start interacting with him. Enjoy your character, and enjoy his. See where such an interaction can lead to. This is really what this game is about. And, as simple as it is, this is the key to success. It's how you involve many people*, and how you get to know about what is going on.
Lately, I have seen this happen rarely. People don't seem to react to the world anymore. People don't seem to even understand this concept. I, for once, can't tell how disappointed I was to see several, and I'll repeat several, good aligned characters (let's not even speak about neutral) happily quests with the most evil abominations that can be created, aka undead. But well, it's for questing and it saves money. So I guess it's perfectly ok.
*Involve people. One of the most misunderstood concept ever. So I'll spend some word about it. Involving people does not mean making a sending and dragging them on a DM quest. Or an exploration. That can be good, but it is not involving them in your story. Involving them means to have them somehow react to your character. Take actions to support you, or to stop your efforts, to spread your story themselves.
Say that winter is coming. And you want to keep your city warm. You can make a thousand of sendings, lead everyone you can find, aka random people, on explorations looking for the artifact of the Warm Hearth. Or you could start to use the world around you, a world that exists. So you contact the strong faith of Kossuth and explain them your idea of binding an elemental of fire. And leave them the task to find it. Meanwhile, you contact the Malarites with the excuse of a feast, and sends them on a massive hunt, fully knowing that the druid will oppose them, and thus won't be able to interfere with the kossuthians. But the equally strong curch of Istishia gets to know about your plan because your enemies informed them, and attempts to stop the kossuthians. Meanwhile, you contact the MG and explain them your plan. But you also contact the CoG and do the same, pinning them against each other in a race, making it painfully obvious that whoever will succeed will earn the gratitude of the whole city. Because winter is coming.
Now, you have done nothing but talking, and you have involved half of the server. Don't think such a thing could ever be missed by the DM Team.
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What Count said. Either:-
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Start roleplaying a character and stop trying to win.
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Or give us some feedback we can actually use to stop the above behavior. We can talk all day about how the server is stagnant, but we're seeming to miss the simple fact that if players start thinking outside the box and come up with plots, it wouldn't be so.
CoA needs to become a true sandbox where player's can tell interesting stories and involve other people in their goals no matter how small or big they are.
It is a sandbox. How about we all start actually playing in the sand now and see what happens?
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@The:
The general public doesn't have a stake anymore because they don't see a reason to feel strongly towards one way or the other. There is simply not enough incentive in order for people to want to pick a side when they can lose nothing by staying neutral. They don't see that they will gain something either way.
I don't know if I can ever stress this enough. But the problem in my opinion is that the focus lately has shifted so much away from RP in favour of accomplishing things. Players do not see what they can gain from taking a side? Really? They would be playing their characters by doing so! There is a castle full of evil knights and undead that fights another castle full of valiant and good knights. If you cannot find in your character a reason to take a side, well, I'll be blunt, your character must be very shallow, lacking any kind of depth. What better is there than a staple of the fantasy genre like the war between the Two Towers? If even in such a situation you are looking to gain something, well something is definitely wrong.
The way it comes across is that it's a war far away from the city, that's been dragging on for some time and very few people outside either faction have a clue what's really going on. Nothing really has had an effect on the city, so why would you bother getting involved?
These plots have been done to death, too, and honestly it's a little boring having the same thing happen over and over again.
What do to to stop dull and boring behavior? Have the world react to people more, have NPCs out and about, publicly reward players and characters who do things well.
EfU, for example, has a PC Mayor and a PC Master Merchant. I can't see the DMs on CoA agreeing to having either and letting PCs have such a free hand in shaping the city nor can I think anything interesting would come out of it if they were allowed to. I went to the Mages Guild with a large sum of gold to do good for the city and the ideas I got were ‘’Build a magic garden’’ and ‘’put another floor on top of the Temple of Ilmater’’. I was pretty stunned that given the option of doing something cool for the server those were the suggestions given to me.
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I do not know where this idea of "the war has been dragging itself for a while" comes from. And yet it has been repeated ad nauseam. The war started three weeks ago "officially" and since that moment players of both factions have been moving and doing stuff.
And yes, the war is outside of Arabel. Both villages are outside the city and the city itself has not taken a stance yet. And being a war between those two factions, it is only obvious that members of those two factions are those that would know more about it. Doesn't it make sense?
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As DMs you see everything that goes on, everything that is said in the forums and what happens IG.
Joe Player doesn't, and that needs to be remembered. Things need to happen outside each faction, even spice on quests that give clues what’s going on to bring people into it. This needs to happen by both DMs and players, and it’s not at the moment.
This isn’t a RL war, it’s a computer game. Things should be done to get everyone involved, even to the determent of those involved sometimes. It’s not about the winning or end of the game, it’s the fun you have on the way there and at the moment for 80% of the server it’s just not a fun plot. If a plot has a feeling of dragging on with nothing happening and lots of players feel that way then maybe it is the case?
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Wait… we're at war?
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Getting involved is very simple. There are two sides at war. Just speak with one, and I'm sure they will have plenty of things to tell you. Why should I, as DM, step in and give out clues when there are players that are waiting for nothing better than to give out those clues themselves? Interaction is the lifeblood of CoA, why should I deprive players of this chance, instead polarizing even more attention on the DM actions?
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I'm not pointing the finger at the DMs.
Interaction, story telling and conflict are the lifeblood of CoA and all three seem to have been put to the back of the list of things to do. It's more WoW than an RP server now, sadly!
I keep sitting and thinking about my next concept on CoA and, as normal, I try and pick something that will have the most conflict to keep me interested.
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All I heard about when I played Bhast was ‘’X wants to kill / assassinate you’’ I wasn’t allowed to do anything with the Rift because I was told the Mages Guild would get pissed, OOC, with the Sheriffs exploring the Rift (which was pretty laughable) So players conflict is to kill people and DMs don’t seem to want conflict between the factions? What the hell has CoA become?
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@21:
Interaction, story telling and conflict are the lifeblood of CoA and all three seem to have been put to the back of the list of things to do. It's more WoW than an RP server now, sadly!
From a certain point of view, I agree.
DMs don’t seem to want conflict between the factions
I can garantee this is not true. We love to see conflict between factions.
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@The:
I can guarantee this is not true. We love to see conflict between factions.
I wholeheartedly agree.
However, if you go out there with the sole purpose of screwing another player's character, I think all you will be doing is screwing another players character and encouraging that player to find somewhere else to play.
If you go out there to have fun with another player by entering into conflict, both you and the other player will come out the far end having had a whole heap of good fun and have loads of stories to tell of the excitement, tense stand-offs, epic battles, dastardly plot shifting and all sorts. Other people will see this epic battle and want to join in, taking sides and encouraging things along.
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I want to throw my +1's to senseitravis and WildCard's posts.
Also, I really, really think Polaris's statements should be considered:
"1) Start roleplaying a character and stop trying to win.
- Or give us some feedback we can actually use to stop the above behavior."
Is there anything DM's can do, policy-wise, to try to shift the mindset of the server? I mean, I feel like posting the A&I policy did a lot to shift the mindset of the server a long time ago.
Could the server be shifted by another post of a policy saying "winning" does not earn rewards and saying what the DM's mean when they talk about "involving others?" Is there anything that could be done, policy-wise, to recognize the story as a more important reward than things like changing the colors of the guards uniforms, controlling this or that part of the city, or checking off all of the goals on your list?
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The issue wasn't even the policy. Players read what they wanted into it, not what was actually there.
There is nothing in Moloch's post that suggested TEH WIN.
Adventure and Intrigue guys, is what's there in all games. Yes, even your single player games.
What I'd really like to know, Eddie, is what do you think A&I actually represent?
Or, what do you think the server should be like without it? Perhaps I can clear some stuff up.
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Adventure and Intrigue..
Please don't use this phrase, it makes me want to punch myself in the lungs :(
I'd suggest not handing out things to players because they are ‘’on a DM quest’’ and not buy into the idea that ‘’involving’’ people is just bringing people on a DM quest.
If they don’t do anything on the quest and just go along with the motions don’t reward them
If they rock out on the quest, reward them. Tailor other events around the pro-active characters to give them the chance to do something more awesome and to show other people that by associating with the well played, dynamic PCs you get stuff done.
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The problem is, that just leads to focus on a small select sort. The more shy maybe bashful players get left out. I feel the problem has always been tunnel vision, only seein a small group player, leaving the rest really out.
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DMs can see if someone is proactive and fits what I said above even if they are ''shy''
It would focus attention on the proactive players, which is always a good thing. You can be proactive IC and shy OOC.