Reagents
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All those proposals by far will only kill Hedge Magic system for good.
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I complained about this awhile ago >_>
I don't think this system can ever be made perfect although I do think it has become the go to thing to solve all DM plots (even if it does create adventurer the repetitiveness of it all really gets dull) I've done now 6 or 7 Hedge magic rituals, some to solve DM plots, others just for a part of it.
Sometimes it takes a lot of effort and adventure to get to it and I don't see a problem with it on my experience, but Im not sure how others have gotten their regeants. Most of the above suggestions won't work either.
I don't think I have any suggestions of my own, perhaps DM's need to cut out Hedge magic in some of their plots entirely/ making it impossible to finish via hedge magic to force players to find other means.
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I'm not sure what you're even talking about Eliphas.
DM plots can't really be resolved by Hedge Magic. We don't use it that way.
If some DMs have made minor exceptions, that was their call. Our standard policy and preference is that Hedge Magic is a wild and unpredictable thing that will muck up DM plots as often as help, but is more useful for helping with player initiated plans and stories.
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It actually is based on a canon form of magic in the Forgotten Realms and is notoriously unstable.
I thought it had no canon relations. Most of the things I know about the realms comes from CoA. Shame on me.
Most the NPCs in the Wizard's Guild heavily frown on its use because it is unreliable and the results will vary greatly (…)
Well, I share their opinion. :)
On the other hand, I didn't meet too much PCs who seemed to be aware of this nature of hedge magic… or to care about it very much.A while before there was a post by a DM -answering a question about buying reagents- saying that DMs don't really care about the origin of a reagent, rather the quality of the ritual. I don't know if it helped the situation to escalate. :)
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Perhaps give them a value beyond Hedge Magic? Like, for instance, make it so that they can be "turned in" to various places for a bit of xp. Your adventure can be rewarded with a sort of "exploration xp" for the party or with a window-dressing tool for a future ritual. It may not stop the problem entirely, but it could help a bit towards giving people who simply happen upon a reagent while adventuring another option besides trying to sell it to another PC.
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Regents: A great idea but with flaws. I don't see how it can be perfect, when NWN itself isn't.
I'd go with making them even harder to find. Like only one or two each reset, and place them in very difficult places to get. Something where you would need a good party.
Seems to be the only option to put a small halt on "farming".
We can not win, only make a great story.
reminder:
Players of Arabel we brought this on ourselves. I'm not claiming inocence, but the more we look at this as true RP and not a game.
Nothing happens over night.My other two cents
The hero fails and the villian might just get his way. All tells a great story I see arabel telling. You can force a book to read the way you want it.So stop trying to win CoA
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@--lizard-man--:
Perhaps give them a value beyond Hedge Magic? Like, for instance, make it so that they can be "turned in" to various places for a bit of xp. Your adventure can be rewarded with a sort of "exploration xp" for the party or with a window-dressing tool for a future ritual. It may not stop the problem entirely, but it could help a bit towards giving people who simply happen upon a reagent while adventuring another option besides trying to sell it to another PC.
This is likely the best idea. Give people a dump off if they happen upon something they don't need, and make it a rule that selling these regeants is bad m'kay. Hiring people to go find something that you specifically need should still be viable, of course.
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How bad is the selling of regeants really? Do you really know?
For example, trading regeants is fine - both sides probably took the time and effort to go get said regeant.
Selling them - what is the player selling it for? Why is it wrong? For example, I want to sell two of the regeants I have for gold so that I can use that gold to pay people for personal plots (Look at the Fire gaint posters!). I took the time and players to go down to get those regeants (Although they wern't the regeants I was looking for which is why I'd sell it). There was definatly adventure, roleplay, once even slight pvp to get these regeants.
So what is wrong in selling a regeant? In my opinion, nothing.
I think the main problem is the people -buying- the regeants. How'd they get their gold? Probably an easy way, and them buying the regeant pretty much no adventure at all but this is something that can't really be fixed. For the most part people arn't going to be able to buy -all- the regeants they need.
I wouldn't opt for making them harder to find, it took me months to gather regeants for one of my rituals, weeks for others. Every time I'd go out with players to find it, take different routes where I could. Some regeants were given by allies (Allies made via much Roleplay!) My personal experience with hedge magic has not been bad with plenty of adventure and roleplay.
The only fix I can think of, is since all hedge magic rituals must be done via a DM, that if its not known how much effort was put into finding those regeants is that the DM should ask how that player aquired all their components, and if there was a good amount of effort put into finding/buying them.
Moloch
I'm not sure what you're even talking about Eliphas.
All I was getting at is that if players think hedge magic is the way to go for every DM plot, that in the end it is the DM's decision for it. That said, the DM's need to suggest somehow IG its not the way to go. By what I've seen on many DM plots so far, Hedge magic has often been used all the time, many working others failing. If you don't want players to think its the way to go, it needs to be suggested or foun out IG that it isn't the way to go.
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Make it illegal.
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Another idea I had was requiring players to find certain clues and hints on where to seek the items and unless you've found the clues, you can never actually 'find' the item.
this is a good idea. like the notebook quest as lillesmurfen mentioned. That will force people to go out and adventure to find the item. If the spawn point is random in at least a dozen areas, that out to get folks wandering around :D
Well, the notebook quest works good because the initial spawn may happen in many different places, and so deliberate exploration cannot find it (unless there is a hint saying the spawn took place, that I never found). But anyway, it would go for hints as it goes for reagents or the notebook quest: either the appearance of the desired resource is predictable, and it will be farmed, or it is not, and it will not cause people who don't like to explore, to actually get out of the walls.
The idea of decaying reagents also is nice, but if you need several ones, and some are rare, you may well end up unable to assemble the whole recipe.
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So what is wrong in selling a regeant? In my opinion, nothing.
…that in the end it is the DM's decision for it. That said, the DM's need to suggest somehow IG its not the way to go.
This gives the same problems as prostitution these days. Its illegal to buy, but no to sell, so the market will still be there legally, but it is illegal to make use of it. It makes no sense. Its like having a shop you're not allowed to buy anything in, just browse and think "I want that", but never get it.
As for the second point. If some large-scale hedge magic rituals blew up in a serious way, maybe killing some of the PCs involved and actually spreading some fear as to the possible outcomes and consequences, then people might not be so keen to pursue HM as the ultimate problem solver as it is now.
For the latest time, most things my factions have tried to accomplish has been by trying to create HM this or HM that to make an easy exit. We just failed as we never got any of the plans going anywhere.But if hedge magic is as unstable and unpredictable as it is said to be, make it so. If people realize its unsafe, dangerous and unreliable, then most of them will be deterred or stop entirely. Only the most daring or desperate would want to try.
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But if hedge magic is as unstable and unpredictable as it is said to be, make it so. If people realize its unsafe, dangerous and unreliable, then most of them will be deterred or stop entirely. Only the most daring or desperate would want to try.
I think that's the best advice so far.
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@HarryMcScary:
But if hedge magic is as unstable and unpredictable as it is said to be, make it so. If people realize its unsafe, dangerous and unreliable, then most of them will be deterred or stop entirely. Only the most daring or desperate would want to try.
I think that's the best advice so far.
I want to see the knights of the Red Hart accidentally summon a balor, or the mage's guild collapse a section of the city wall, or something like that.
It's more fun to watch the good guys do more bad that team evil ever could when they're trying to shortcut past all their problems than it is to watch the bad guys actually get away with their deviousness. :-)
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In my opiniom the sells happen cause some places happen to have random reagents, for example kilgrave was needing celestial silver a time a go. The place i know have is Bhersken so i gathered over 1 month 15, maybe more of trips to there i didnt find the silver i needed and end up with like 8-9 different types of reagents that i had no use so i sold part of them. Now if in the places that have the celestial silve is that or nothing i would have nothing to sell cause what i got i was going to use.
I think should all be like diamond ice or blood ruby certain creature eventually might drop cause its linked to the creature and this way makes impossible to get them without a damn good fight.
Devin
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I've only had reagents on one character, which was dorgan. I would almost never sell them, I would give them to people who need them in exchange for something that I need IE: Help with a plot of my own, a favor that they owe me, or in exchange for information on another plot. I think this is a much better way then people going out and selling them for 2000+, which is just ridiculous, many people on the server dont have more then 1k at any time!
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The comerce of the reagents was an obvious things form the start.
When Reno was on the guild there were some plans to monopoly the trade of said reagents.
I udnerstand that what is happening now is rather sick, there are so many wonderful things one can gain from trading other than gold. Favors, info, items, friends… other reagents...
Although, there is little to do with it.
I personaly like the sistem. It resembles a faint Epic Magic with some of the Magic sistem from Mage (WoD). Actually it looks far more magical than D&D, however that is my opinion.
I just think that DMs should be more careful at listening to the ones that ask for favors using Hedge Magic. Listen to precendence of the items, maybe be a bit more inquisitive about the IC intents, thoughts and ideas of the ritual.
However, we reach another point.
Hedge Magic can also be used to involve third parties on certain plots.
Some people would be quite inquisitive about what will be done with the reagent, others may want to participate the ritual or further the plot.
The player base simply has to think outside of the box. Neither items nor gold can save you all the time, neither they last forever.
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I hate to be the barer of bad news but when you did what you did you traded one economy for another. you took away someones ability to get a particular amount of power and traded it for another. players who can see a business to be made in such will move to the new money makers and become regent merchents even without having to farm them. It is like that with every game and even in life. Its capitalism 101 i have a product that is a commody and you need it to make something. i can eather go out and find it mine it or whatever is needed to aquire it and then sell it to you for a price. eather that or i could find people who have the item and act as a third party to sell the items to those that need it as a broker for an additional fee. no matter what you do you are going to get an economy about of it. while no matter what you do will sdtop the problem i can suggest something that might help make more rp and also help everyone. change the rituals. Ok you need that baddass sword. well then you need to find one that has been magically prepared. then what you do is get rid of those random drop green ones and make it so like the old crafting system they need to be made and magically prepared [turned green] by a wizard. same can be done with armors and the like. as for uses for plots. Well that you can do one of two things if someone suggested it the thread was TL;DR but make it a percentage on weather it will work or not. Or make NPC merchents who sell them but spawn in random places. you can make a character out of it and just randomize his spawn location so people have to explore to find him. he could be like narfels brother or something. that way people are still going out exploreing for them but the gold is being used to buy them and not to farm them.
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@Broken:
Make it illegal.
I like this option!
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Make one ritual go terribly wrong, which will have some big effect on the region, then make it illegal.
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Make one ritual go terribly wrong, which will have some big effect on the region, then make it illegal.
YES!
The mage guild hearbys declares all hedge magic tantamount to a capital crime. It may only be conducted in the state of free arabel by those holding permit.