RE: Reminder About Too Good to Be True Things!
-
All I know is, before I discovered Discipline, I was averaging 0-300gp, because I was buying healing potions like an addict. Now I can actually afford the occasional item upgrade.
Discipline allows people to pick a non-powergamed fighter build. If I had known it existed before making Marzoon, I would have made her less optimized for combat.
Edit: Meaning that even with an optimized combat build, i was still chugging potions like a drug addict.
-
I think its very simple… Its -simply- too strong, end of story.
I fought a pure fighter in pvp who used those. No AOO, just healing up in two rounds, while i had to use... 6 charges or so to do similar, those charges being from a healing wand.
Now, perhaps this discussion should be used to discuss other things way too powerful on the server atm?
-
I vote Lady Orbastal as too powerful, and her player should be removed from the server entirely.
-
@Leaders:
I vote Lady Orbastal as too powerful, and her player should be removed from the server entirely.
How Rude! Dont diss my min max build dude!
-
Wands are what are overpowered. Discipline is cheap and heals a bunch because wands are almost three times cheaper than potions, get 25 charges for a single craft, and healing wands can be used on others. Why are we comparing Discipline to Cure Critical Wounds? I thought we already agreed that the cost/healing ratio of the potions/wands suck.
Moderate wand - 312 - 25 XP = 2D8 Healing +3 (Max heal = 19)
Seroius wand - 625 Gold 50XP = 3D8 Healing +5 (Max heal = 29)
Critical wand - 2625 Gold 210 XP = 4D8 +7 (Max heal = 39)Max doesn't tell the whole story, look at averages.
Moderate Healing Wand 13 HP average.
Serious Healing Wand 20 HP average.
Critical Healing Wand 27 HP averageThat actually just tells me that the critical healing wands suck. Don't make them!
-
Clerics have a niche role as a buffer for tough fights. If they are wasting spells healing, they are not realizing that fight buffs will help fighters NOT use all that healing.
I don't know. I played a cleric who prety much was a healer first and foremost. It might have helped that she had the healing domain, but the ablity to restore huge amount of hp on ally without said ally suffering AOO defently made her well liked by the fighters of her faction. :D
Plus healing make more sense than buffs for some clerics anyway.
-
Clerics have a niche role as a buffer for tough fights. If they are wasting spells healing, they are not realizing that fight buffs will help fighters NOT use all that healing.
Clerics are both buffers and healers. Really, that's their niche - though they share the first part with wizards.
Discipline allows people to pick a non-powergamed fighter build. If I had known it existed before making Marzoon, I would have made her less optimized for combat.
If Discipline was only available for non-optimized builds (and different people have different definitions of that term, it should be noted), then it wouldn't be a problem. Except that it's also available to powergame builds, which kinda breaks things.
-
This item heals for 2discipline score. So we spent 2 pages discussing this because I remember it healed for 5discipline score.
I was wrong. I can't even remember my own scripts!
Move along, nothing more to discuss here.
-
Something I think that is to good to be true, is, a certain ring.
Nassyrs band, or something like that I think if I remember.
It used to drop on quest(s) and was discussed and removed.
It makes you immune to lvl drain and ability drain, making you immune to poison, disease, and level drain at the same time, in one ring. Which is mental simply. It does also give you 100% vulnerability to neg energy. But seriously, that tradeoff is well worth it.
I've been told, that its available in a shop somewhere. Don't know where, the person I begged to tell me wouldn't tell me!
hmm…. wonder if I'd be reporting this if he had told me....
But really, if it truely is still in game, and just buyable with some gold I think thats mental. That kind of item should totally be DM given IMO.
-
If my memory serves me right, the ring is nerfed to add +2 to Negative Energy save rolls.
-
Not the one this guy had.
-
Concerning the discipline fighter only healing items. I always assumed that they were that good to compensate for the fact that fighters have absolutely nothing else going for them compared to multi-classed Fighter/Rogues who get evasion, sneak attack, UMD, etc.
Pure fighters get higher attack bonus, and recieve two attacks per round by like, level 6. If they multiclass into a rogue, they might have some nice skills and abilities, but they'll never be as good at combat.
You pit a fighter and a fighter/rogue of the same level together, the fighter will come out on top, assuming no one uses uber-expensive consumables.
-
The item is overpowered, yes. Needs to be nerfed, but some players need to learn also to work in a team. Sometimes it seems like a bunch of individuals just happening to fight a bunch of enemies in the same place and time, rather than a team working together. Communicate, plan (if it's IC!), and support one-another, and you normally won't need so much healing.
-
If my memory serves me right, the ring is nerfed to add +2 to Negative Energy save rolls.
someone else mentioned theirs wasnt nerfed. The above certainly sounds like the one I had that I couldnt even sell for 50
-
@petey512:
You pit a fighter and a fighter/rogue of the same level together, the fighter will come out on top, assuming no one uses uber-expensive consumables.
In a arena, yes.
Otherwise it's very "it depends". Put them in a dim, dark , twisty maze, and the fighter/rogue in leather with KD and rapidshot sneak attack has all sorta advantage. -
@petey512:
You pit a fighter and a fighter/rogue of the same level together, the fighter will come out on top, assuming no one uses uber-expensive consumables.
In a arena, yes.
Otherwise it's very "it depends". Put them in a dim, dark , twisty maze, and the fighter/rogue in leather with KD and rapidshot sneak attack has all sorta advantage.And if you put him in an even darker maze, a wizard/sorcerer with invisibility and Combust has advantage. What petey said applies to only 1 on 1 actual duels, not one on one PvP.
-
Don't be silly.
Wand of Hold Person.
Win. -
Potions of clarity last at least 20 rounds.
Granted, if there's room to cornersneak, then a stealthy rogue will still beat a fighter with no detect 100% of the time. If neither of them sneak, then the fight will likely never end, since as long as one side uses improved expertease, it'd be a natural-20 fest. Most wand spells are countered by potions. The exceptions, such as magic missles or divine hammer, are either innocuous or prohibitively expensive.
Remember for the most part, a rogue/fighter will only get 1 more tumble AC than a pure fighter, since the latter can invest cross-class points into it. A stealthy rogue/fighter will beat a pure one, but is much, much worse at combat in general. A plated rogue/fighter is not better than a pure one at combat, but is overpowered because of all the other things they're capable of. Simply taking 1 rogue at start-up gives you so many skill points. It's absurd.
-
if there's room to cornersneak
Pretty sure that's an exploit.
-
Don't be silly.
Wand of Hold Person.
Win.Don't be silly. A potion of clarity and you're immune to half the shit a fighter/rogue can do to you with his costly wand of hold person.
The point is that UMD is useful for a rogue, and so is everything else; the sneak attack, the traps, and so forth. But when it comes down to it, multiclassing makes you lose a lot of stuff. I don't disagree on fighters having nice healing, but I do disagree that fighter rogues win all.