Reagent Spells
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Negative energy ray + Ilamaters holy water = positive energy ray
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I think the best use for this would be the polymorph spell.
There are a great many reagents that one gathers from animals and each could be used to polymorph into that animal.Acid Fog could be turned into: Grave mist [neg energy]
Freezing mist [cold]Slaad Tongues and another reagent to make Protection from evil/good into Protection from chaos/law (This is the one that I would most want to see)
Use holy water to make Death armor into Positive energy armor
Ice dagger split into each of the elements (except for sonic, because that would be weird)
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Hm…might as well give flame arrow a cosmetic change too...
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For druids/cleric (attack spells):
Flash lash - Acid Lash, Electric lash, ect.
Flame Strike - Acid strike, Electric strike, ect
Similair to whats done with Darkfire, except the damage changed to that type in these spells.
Although even if some spells change like this, they would still look the same when you cast them? Might confuse players.
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To add onto Snowy's idea, if there are specific reagents for specific polymorph shapes, perhaps some "wild card" reagents, either limited to a specific set (i.e. animals) or even, if they are rare, for every polymorph shape available, could be added for Generalist wizards. Might give some reason for people to start using them that makes up for their overall gimpiness.
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@12:
Might give some reason for people to start using them that makes up for their overall gimpiness.
Quite a few people do use em.
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I think you folks are going way out of the bounds of Moloch's question.
If I'm wrong, so be it but I think Moloch is asking more along the lines of the recent change to Dark Fire and Flaming weapon where a single reagent changes the elemental damage type.
For example;
Fireball + (generic ice gem, or elemental ice shard) = Cold Damage
Fireball + acid flask = Acid Damage
Fireball + ??? = ??? DamageAnd so forth.
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I love this idea. I'd like see a mix of the good and the bad of reagents. First thing that came to my mind was dimond dust (Which in PnP I remember being the equivilent of 250gp) for stone skin. I honestly think that materials should be applied to all spell caster.
Here is my concern. With Arabel being a low magic server, high costs of material components will throw the game economy out of wack.
But now when folks go on quests the fighters have less reason to get mad at mages when they use so many potions and wizards just cast spells when their spells aren't entirely "free".
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in order, i would like
different polymorph shapes
the ability to protect from order/chaos
iron guts changable to the equivelant in reflex and will saving throws, also a rarer universal option where all saving throws are raised.
weapon reagents, making the next summoned undead armed with that weapon.
coloured lighting
differing damage for death armour
alternatively, make the new reagents that work to change damage type work on every spell, from fireballs, flame arrows, ice daggers, death armour, negative energy ray. All changable to create a more flavoursome character and making damage themed type characters possible.
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What has been done with Flame Weapon and Summons are great so far. I think that altering evocations just gets into a sticky mess, as much as I'd LOVE to throw a iceball, ad usually take Energy Sub in PnP so I can…
Spells that could really use reagents -
POLYMORPH SELF - reasons stated above
KEEN EDGE - for non-slashing weapons maybe?
CONTINUAL FLAME - might already be implemented for different color lightsYou could toy with some evocation spells, but there are already quite a few different types of elemental damage available to a caster.
You could toy with metamagic reagents, and I think it kool, but they'd have to be VERY rare in order to not be unfair to those who take the feats.
Certain other minor changes could be nice but I think would take a lot of programming...don't know how worth it. I do like BableFish's idea -
PROT V. ALIGN + IRONWOOD = PROT V. NEUTRAL
Anyway, two cents inserted.
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Wouldn't protection from other alignments (with cheap/easy to find reagents) need some -if not most- quests to be rebalanced?
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Simple things to make elemental magic more versatile, ala the Flame Weapon spell, are probably the best things to implement. And easiest too.
For example - Reagent + Fireball = Change the elemental damage of a fireball from fire to cold or electricity or acid.
You could do likewise for just about about every direct damage evocation I suspect. It's always irked me that the only 'cold' spells available are Ice Dagger, Ice Storm and Cone of Cold. And as an evoker, barring conjuration, there's not a single acid spell that you can cast. This should go a fair way to making evocation spells a bit more useful I think.
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I'm also debating if reagents are something that should be used by wizards rather than clerics, bards, or sorcerers for most spells.
Yes. Reagents should definatley be a wizardly thing.
Clerics are given their spells by their deitys so shouldn't want/need reagents to affect the spells their God blesses them with.
Bards and Scorcerers are natural casters. Though maybe they can channel their power through a reagent to enhance their magic? So maybe they could use reagents after all.
The introduction of reagents making it possible to cast spells would give the Mage Guild/Custodans/other wizards a field day. Wonderful reason to go out exploring, looking for new reagents and seeing what they do. -
Clerics are given their spells by their deitys so shouldn't want/need reagents to affect the spells their God blesses them with.
A devout Christian heard an urgent news report on his radio that a flash flood was within minutes of entering the peaceful valley where he lived. Immediately he went to his knees and prayed for safety. The words were still on his lips when he became aware that water was gushing under his door. He retreated to the second floor and finally onto the roof of his house.
While he sat on the roof, a helicopter flew by and the pilot asked over the loudspeaker if they could lift him off. "It's not necessary since I have the Lord's protection," he replied.
Moments later the house began to break up and he found himself clinging to a tree. A police boat, braving the waters, approached him for rescue, but he assured them that the Lord would save him. Finally, the tree gave way and the man went to his death.
Standing before the Lord, he asked, "Lord, I'm glad to be here, but why didn't You answer my prayer for safety?"
The Lord responded, "Son, I told you over the radio to get out of there. Then I sent you a helicopter and a motor boat!"P.
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Gack, now look what you all did, you scared off Moloch.
The simplest thing, I believe, that could be done with spells and reagents is changing the elemental type of damage a spell can do. Thus, an electric "fireball", when using the fireball spell and an electric reagent (perhaps quartz crystals?).
You may ask "Why would this be at all useful?", well, in odd situations you have the wrong spell prepared, facing a fire elemental when all you have are fireballs, you would want to have a slight chance of countering that, don't you think?
If that is at all possible (hard from my player side to tell) perhaps some reagents could act as Metamagic feats. Maximize a spell's effect, double its duration, etc. Those would be much more rare than the elemental reagents of course, since some of them would be dastardly powerful.
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Getting away from damage spells, could something not be done with buff spells? Cat's Grace + Reagent gives a significant bonus to sneak (i.e. more than you would get from the dex bonus you would normally recieve). That kind of thing?
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I'm also debating if reagents are something that should be used by wizards rather than clerics, bards, or sorcerers for most spells.
Yes, you could use this to help make wizards more distinct from the other spellcasting classes. I really see wizards as the only class well suited to actually roleplay the aspects of spell research that should be part of this. That is, you might have a few very simple things that e.g., fit better with sorcerers - but I would very much like to see the use of reagents largely restricted to wizards.
I am saying this despite liking the sorcerer class a lot - but I very much hope to see sorcerers become more distinct from wizards. In fact, I would go as far as disabling the use of the bulk of summoning components for the non-wizard classes as well.
Or - perhaps introduce a minimum intelligence score required to be able to use most or all reagents, say 14 INT, for most of them. An 8 INT sorcerer really should not excel at the smart use and combination of dozens of different reagents.
Or - require one or more wizard levels for at least some of the more interesting reagents to use, or use spellcraft requirements. That is, there are different possibilities to make it a little more flexible than completely restricting it to wizards if you want.
Now, regarding:
I'm toying around with basic ideas, and will probably adjust a few spells here and there-but am curious what spells people would be interested in seeing have a few vague reagents. Similar to how you can now make Flame Blade an Acid Blade if you have the right reagent, or summon insects with Summon Monster spells if you have the right reagent or tome.
Some could see a similar treatment as Flame blade:
- Burning hands: (e.g., frost, electricity, or poisonous gas)
- Endure elements: might be specified to offer a little more protection against a single element, while failing to protect against any of the other (perhaps include sonic damage?)
- Ray of Enfeeblement: Might be made to lower other stats than STR
- Ghoul touch: Might deal different kinds of elemental damage (without the other effects of the spell)
- Melf's Acid arrow: Might become a small frost/fire arrow, but those perhaps weaker than the acid.
- Resist elements: Same logic as with endure elements
- Flame arrow: Same logic as with Flame blade
- Lighting bolt: Ice, Fire, poison, sound (?), you have it - should probably be weaker than the electric version, however.
- Mestil's Acid breath: Same logic as above. A poison or negative engery breath might be particularly cool - or even sound (if someone wants to become a banshee in his later "life" as an undead?)
Somewhat different spells: - Grease: Perhaps have different versions of grease that have a chance to work against specific slightly more powerful kinds of creatures while being less effective against others (like human adventurers?). Perhaps also consider a component that grants some resistance against this spell to the caster (interesting for people focusing on dispelling and countering things)
- Horizikaul's Boom: This spell seems underused and might benefit from a reagent-tweak. On the other hand, you may not want to go through the same damage-type idea with every last spell. Perhaps, this spell could become slightly more powerful if used by a bard with a certain instrument (i.e., this would be an exception to the rule of restricting things to wizard - I believe this spell should not get the exact same treatment as Flame blade, however)
- Iron guts: This one has been mentioned. Perhaps there could indeed be a few reagents that give a slight temporary bonus against something else - if so, this might suddenly become an important spell (think of hold person and will-saves). If you want to keep it obscure, perhaps stick more with more rare things like protection from sonic damage
- Sleep: Perhaps spell components might allow this to have some kind of effect on things that would normally be completely immune to it? But perhaps Ray of enfeeblement is a better spell to use for this purpose.
- Belagarn's Iron Horn: Reagents might alternatively induce a stun effect, or a fear effect
- Continual Flame: might simply change in color. Might add some flavor.
- Gedlee's electric loop: fire, cold etc., might not make sense - but perhaps a mild poison effect might?
- Stone Bones: Reagents might allow this to boost the AC of other monster-types (jellies, anyone?) - but perhaps less powerfully (necromancy should have a few unique advantages)
- Fireball: perhaps do not change this one, or it might become both weird and unbalancing
There are quite a few more spells like those, but I might be off track. In general, though, perhaps you could aggregate a few types of spells that are affected by the same reagents in similar consistent ways. That is, a similar (or even the same) component might change Flame Blade to Frost Blade that changes Flame Arrow to Frost Arrow.
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On second thoughts, there is one other point I see though. In balancing and distinguishing the classes, I think one of the supposed strengths of a sorcerer compared to a wizard is the greater ad-hoc flexibility in what he can do.
That is part of the "drawbacks" of the wizard class is that wizards should be able to make poor preparatory choices - if they have the wrong spell prepared, then that should be to some extent their own fault in not having thought things through clearly beforehand - cheap components possibly should not completely eliminate this aspect (or eliminate one of the bigger distinctive mechanical advantages of the sorcerer class). If I try to keep this consistent with my own previous contribution, then perhaps there should be a few components that have more to do with increasing the raw physical power of something that should be exclusive to sorcerers/bards.
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You get wizards and sorcerers confused. Wizards are more adaptable, sorcs can cast their spells more often.
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Right, in thinking it through-I'll likely try something unique.
Sorcerers can pick an "element" theme at level one. It is set permanently for them the first time they cast a sorcerer spell. That would make pyromancers and cyromancers feasible for sorcerers.
Wizards could be able to use reagents.
Clerics will rely upon their domain choices to change various spells.
Some of the specific ideas for spell reagent uses people are supplying are things I'll try to work on as I have time.