The Thayan Arena
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Oh. Seems silly, I don't think I would like that.
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Please. I would hit greater Sanctuary and wait till theres only one other dude left =P
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There be no real counterplay to ganging up on people and smacking them around in the arena. It would be even more of a bitter ordeal for the lower level characters.
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It did use to finish with a Royal Rumble
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It stands to say that if people think it's not fair for players who took the time to learn and thrive with nwn's mechanics to have an advantage. The opposite is also true.
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If the fights are scaled purely around mechanics, then it's to the advantage of people who take the time to learn the games mechanics, at the expense of those who prefer just roleplaying. You're essentially being punished for preferring roleplay over game mechanics/
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If the fights are scaled to be easier or harder if the player in question is good at the games mechanics, then you're essentially being punished for being interested in mechanics. So doing it this way isn't a solution, it's just flipping the unfairness around.
Currently the Thayan arena has a system where if you lose your fight, you're not punished with xp loss but in a flavorful way based on what you fought (could be item loss, limb loss, a curse, being given a task).
But if you were entertaining to the masses, and lose you might be given no penalties at all, by virtue of earning the crowds favor (this gives rp heavy people a lenience since they tend not to just smash the enemy wordlessly and call it a day).I think this system already works great, maybe just stress the point moreso, reward someone even more if they won and were entertaining? Punish someone even more if they lost and made absolutely no effort to put on a good show?
Aside from that all I'd say is make it more clear to people who don't know what's worth what, how hard a fight would typically be.
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Unfortunately, I think the arena's always going to be that Rich Get Richer situation you mentioned, Spiffy. It may not be possible to make it "fair" in a way that satisfies everyone. Do what pleases the most people, I suppose?
I like the idea of tiers mentioned earlier, as well as adjusting on the fly - within reason. Keeping plot stuff out of there seems sound too, assuming you don't already do that.
I think if we do end up with Riddle Jamborees, keep plot stuff out of there too. Riddles are a display of a player's riddle solving ability as much as the Arena is the player's mechanical ability. Some folks are better at riddles than others.
Ed: And uh, I'll admit, I'd value limbs/curses (or items) over XP any day of the week, but I never get to high levels and have never really accomplished anything on CoA, so undoing a curse seems infeasible for me.
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I've only ever participated once in the arena, because I knew if I lost, my PC would not be perma or it would not be crippled badly. I am glad that is back. A tier system sounds interesting. A balance would be great for character level vs item power. I should be clear that your lvl 4 PC has no chance of getting that +5 vorpal demonic blade of acidic doom, but you at least got a chance at that +1 angelic buttkicker.
As someone not well versed in the mechanics (try as I might...), the arena will always be a bitter sweet event for me. I'll be entertained, but I know I can't win much in there. At least knowing I can try and not be crippled because I lost, might make be give it a try again sometime, or join a group to help them out.
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When we use to run arenas, which always are popular with players; we'd also adjust challenge to the player. Average reward you faced what you'ld face in a quest (CR around your level or two above), good rewards you'ld face what you'ld face in a quest designed for an average player above your level (CR 4 above your level), and awesome rewards we'd just try damnable hard to kill you with something 8 CR over your own.
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Its an Arena. But the primary purpose of the Arena isn't to kill, its to entertain the crowd. If the fight is entertaining, there should be a reward whether or not you lose, especially since Thay wants to buddy up with Cormyr, they can't go full on BTW WE ARE EVIL.
Scale for the item being fought for, then scale for the PC. Maybe if the PC is particularly weak, allow him to bring a friend as well. Instead of one incredibly hard monster, maybe a dozen lesser monsters.
The goal IC is to entertain the crowd. The goal OOCly is to entertain the player participating, and the players in the crowd. And also to overcome the big hurdle of getting non-mechanically savvy PCs to participate.
Maybe a Frost Giant Berserker Skald is the enemy. You can choose to charge him and fight, or beat him in a Poetry Slam.
Maybe instead of a straight out melee fight, its an archery battle. Who can shoot the most puny goblins/helpless peasants?
Maybe instead of a who can hit and crit battle, its a spell-spam, no melee allowed. Or a Break the Tower, where both sides have to break a certain series of boxes before the other finishes.
You can mess with the PCs as well "Kill theses followers of Lathander and you gain the item" but don't reserve this for good PCs, you can also screw with Evil Alliances "Kill these Malarites and you gain the item" which will make the Evil Alliance disintegrate into total hate and anger.
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As I understand it, you are already allowed to bring friends in with you. If you don't have any, you can even ask someone from the crowd to join you.
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@syrusrayne said in The Thayan Arena:
Unfortunately, I think the arena's always going to be that Rich Get Richer situation you mentioned, Spiffy. It may not be possible to make it "fair" in a way that satisfies everyone. Do what pleases the most people, I suppose?
I like the idea of tiers mentioned earlier, as well as adjusting on the fly - within reason. Keeping plot stuff out of there seems sound too, assuming you don't already do that.
I think if we do end up with Riddle Jamborees, keep plot stuff out of there too. Riddles are a display of a player's riddle solving ability as much as the Arena is the player's mechanical ability. Some folks are better at riddles than others.
Ed: And uh, I'll admit, I'd value limbs/curses (or items) over XP any day of the week, but I never get to high levels and have never really accomplished anything on CoA, so undoing a curse seems infeasible for me.
The idea would not be confined to just riddles. This mischievous Jinx Gnome was a concept I was working on for a next character, but I think may be a suitable solution to the issue posted here by @SpiffyMeister . I'll make a new suggestion thread about it and go a little more in detail about the idea when I have time tonight.
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To be fair Spiffy, you allowed me to win the ruined sword, that turned into the sword of destiny, when I fought with a bedroll, and you adjusted the power level of my opponent accordingly, which meant you allowed for roleplay to be taken into account.
The tier system works. But you could also take points in intimidate, persuade, bluff etc into account, in a very simple manner. By changing the fights from "winning the fight" to winning the "crowd". If you can entertain the masses, put on a spectacle, then that could be used to win prizes too.
An example could be for this very charismatic bard who enter the arena, to speaking to the NPC crowds, and if you win their support, then the fight is made easier. This handsome man, is lend a sword of fire, to fight against an opponent who has a weakness to fire. Or he is given a wand with fire spells etc. Or, if he shows sportmansship, then his opponent becomes less powerful.
This would allow you to cater to CERTAIN RP builds (Not all of them, because it should still be a fight), by letting their unique strengths matter more than the AB / Damage per second they have.
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While I approve of all of what Thune said and agree that all of that should be possible, I also think the onus should be on the player to come up with that creative innovation ICly (which would also merit a lot more attention, especially if they were successful). I think the reason we don't necessarily always give every way you can solve certain outcomes due to the fact that we rely on players being creative and resorting to their own means.
However I do agree that more fights should remain open to interpretation, at least at the /very/ beginning. Compromise, RP, or other skills/tools should all be viable options to halt combat and/or challenge your foe in some other way, so long as it makes sense ICly from both sides.
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I'm inclined to agree. I wouldn't change anything about the arena, not even to have a DM say "This is non-combat" or "This is what to expect".
Let the player come up with something creative to entertain the crowds. If a player chooses to fight a monster 10 levels higher than him hand-to-hand, that's his choice (and he will lose) but if he thinks of something else creative, judge how cool that really is and go from there, I'd say.
CoA has always put the onus on players to come up with ideas, and I would keep that aspect.
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It runs well. All the unusual monsters are awesome. Sure it favours mechanical prowess, but people who focus on RP and other "soft" power tend to find rewards outside of the arena.
Leave it as is I say, Spiffy already adjusts on the fly - like the giant trying to eat the crowd giving a PC some time to recover.
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First, I'd like to say that after seeing some arenas, they are ran very nice, chance for recovery is often given, challanges seem to adjust on the fly, and not in a way to cripple players but to provide a fair fight.
I would welcome more interaction with the crowd, but that would make it even longer and probably change the event a lot, in other words, I have no feasible ideas on how to do it.
Trier system would be very nice. I find it very hard to judge the power level of certain items. Clear information on the rules - mostly OoC ones, like what penalties should I expect if I happen to loose and how it relates to my degree of failure - would be most welcome.
What I would change is how participation/rewards are handled. Now only one character will be rewarded, and everyone can fight only once.
I know I could pay tons of money to merceneries, but I find it troublesome to grind that much gold that pays for their risk AND their opportunity cost entering the arena.
If I have a faction who would fight with me, probably the player with most influence would get rewarded. While it was nice seeing verk claiming to quit house Bhaliir on the last arena event because his fellow retainer decided to try his thing alone resulting in both of them loosing, some sort of reward for participants, an amount of consumables or really, something, would help a lot seeing less 1v1 fights.