Improving player numbers.
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To be fair, the reason there haven't been CoAsims complaints is because the people who enjoy that learned to adapt to help make the server interesting.
Instead of cutting down x600 logs they are getting people together to do a quest to earn Dwarven aid in the Masonry work.
As someone who was always kinda iffy on CoASims, I do gotta give Eveningstar and the other recent projects a big round of applause because it also lead to the server becoming a lot more player influenced. I mean we have had War wizards again, We had a Lord Warden of the Militia, Currently have 2 lords running around. People in the Army again, a chaos brigade coming up which is honestly exciting as hell.
Anyway we are on the way there, just need to find that -thing- that gets us some notice.
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So, this is what I think we should do, compiled from a variety of sources and in order of precedence.
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Like Red Gallant I've been holding off commenting on this thread simply because we've had this same conversation every few months and it doesn't seem like a whole lot changes. Slushie and Olouth have captured a lot of my thoughts already but since everyone's throwing in their 2 cents I thought to heck with it I might as well. I'll start with something positive which is the last time that I played CoA earlier this year we had a PC actually become the de facto head of a DM faction (Militia); this was both awesome and groundbreaking for CoA which has been traditionally NPC centric and something I would like to see more of but here's a catch with that. I understand the want folks have to allow the player base to have a more meaningful impact on the setting, that has been a complaint for well over a decade now and we still aren't satisfied yet. The thing is with that, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Giving control over to the players to make changes in the world won't make a difference if you don't have a player base that is willing to deal with the consequences , I think the draft very much proved that. That is not something that can be blamed on the DMs that is the state of CoA's player base in 2016.
We are a server that wants to accommodate all playstyles at this point in time but this also means there is a limit to what can change without stepping on anyone’s toes. Letting player’s run for councilor won’t actually mean anything if they cannot make decisions which can affect people and if folks automatically stop playing because they do something that becomes an annoyance or inconvenient than we are back to where we started. Since EFU has already been mentioned which it inevitably seems to happen at some point during these discussions, I’d like to point out that while some of us may envy the control given to players in having the ability to have a more active influence in the setting and its politics, the flip side of that the consequences can and are often very brutal and it’s not a server you play if you want to not have conflict or like to avoid taking risks. If that’s the case you might as well just sit in the tavern all day because that’s all you’re going to be able to get out of it. The saying "You may not be interested in war but war may be interested in you" very much applies to this setting. Basically, you have to be very much willing to roll with the punches because by necessity that is a part of EFU’s theme (Can't seem to hyperlink so I will do it the old fashion way. This thread still feels relevant even if it was posted a few years ago since we are talking about finding our big thing which is what BG was trying to get at the time viewtopic.php?t=144560&hilit=Server+Population) and if you can’t you’re not going to have fun there. Now a few other points I’d like to add
• I don’t think Team Evil needs a placeholder faction, I wasn’t a fan of the Plebian Court and thought it was pretty bland. I think player’s just need to be a bit more creative. Most of CoA’s legendary villains Pyatt Pree, Raff Shadows etc. come from a time when Team Law pretty much reigned supreme and you could be arrested for simply looking at a guard the wrong way or a War Wizard DM NPC or PC could literally pop out of nowhere and kick your ass. The only known safe space was at the bottom of the Three Bars Basement because there was an NPC which conducted an alignment check. Nonetheless despite the understanding that their stories would undoubtly end with their death or imprisonment for them and their followers were able to survive long enough to reach a point of infamy by playing it smart and earning DM support after they proved they had potential. Maybe this new faction will be better though who knows we will have to see.
• I don’t think CoASims is necessarily a bad thing and I think the war on it during v4 hurt the server rather than helped it; in the v3 days when we were at full numbers most days a week DM attention was still very rare and it was encouraged for players to focus on entertaining other players. Noble Houses often held events for the general public which did include things like poetry reading contests but it still got folks to come out often half the server and if anything gave the world life, if I wanted to just kill shit and crawl through dungeons I could play Diablo 3. But CoA is a persistent world and the more it feels lived in and alive the better in my opinion.
• If V6 is something that happens down the line, I think the original template for v5 which was a trade city that allowed players to visit other parts of the world as part of plots was seriously awesome. After more than a decade Cormyr is getting a little old and this could be a way to revitalize the setting or maybe consider doing a whole new setting.This all being said, CoA in my opinion is better than it has been in years and I hope we will get to where we are trying to go eventually.
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Instead of cutting down x600 logs they are getting people together to do a quest to earn Dwarven aid in the Masonry work.
This is the thing; the first one a player can gather folks and just do. The second they can do as well, but without a DM there, well, it's going to look rather silly walking up to the dwarfs and having them remain utterly silent. At least the deforestation option doesn't require possessed NPCs at all. Players, as far as I'm aware, don't really get to define what these NPCs say or how they respond. So without a DM, I guess I could do a quest to… Travel to the dwarfs, and.. deliver a letter?
We need bit players too, you know. The server mindset doesn't seem especially friendly to the people who just want to roleplay, who don't want to change things, but some of my absolute best experiences were with PCs who didn't have much of an impact, but had a history. That, or it was downtime during the PL stuff- and don't get me wrong, the Phoenix Legion was a lot of fun, but what made it fun was the PCs, not the events. Yes, the PCs doing things got the Legion where it did, but they did stuff other than that, you know? The characters weren't just a facet of the PL to live or die on the plot's events.
WildCard makes some good points there, but I especially recommend reading BG's thread linked up there. I remember that thread, and we're at an even lower average population than that now. I don't agree with everything BG said, but it's worth reading. He was always something of a curmudgeon, but a smart one.
God, I don't know. I hope there's a solution here somewhere, but doing nothing ain't it.
(ed; WITH THAT SAID: CoA is absolutely in a better spot, there's no denying that it's improved by miles since I last played. There's genuine good here, both player-side and DM-side, a lot that's worth working to save. So don't think for a moment that I'm trying to diminish what you guys do, DMs. I just think the server as a whole needs to do more.)
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I'd like to mention something on the subject of plots while this thread is still kicking.
Personally, I think part of the reason so many plots have stagnated recently is because they're simply too big in scope or function for a smaller player base to handle- which isn't to say they're not good, but with the amount of players on the server maybe the plots should be scaled down to reflect what we have to work with and organically grow larger?
Let a misinformed decision from a player spark a war, or set an eldritch creature loose, etc.
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Syrus, verkosh, as you know, we have had many, many, many years-old characters here. Including low-mechanical actively evil ones.
And it was during times when PvP did not need DM permission/oversight.Just wanted to clear something up here.
PVP doesn't require DM oversight unless your in one of VERY few zones (the middle of the citadel, anywhere with blue NPCs)
It is much better to have it, and we massively prefer you to inform us ahead of time if you plan to FD someone, but you don't NEED a DM to PVP so long as you follow the rules.
But if you can't get a DM, while you can PVP within the rules, it's possible there could be ret-cons in certain circumstances (we try to avoid it where possible though)
Just, you know, sayin.
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The second they can do as well, but without a DM there, well, it's going to look rather silly walking up to the dwarfs and having them remain utterly silent. At least the deforestation option doesn't require possessed NPCs at all. Players, as far as I'm aware, don't really get to define what these NPCs say or how they respond. So without a DM, I guess I could do a quest to… Travel to the dwarfs, and.. deliver a letter?
You can go on quests (actually mechanical quests) or quests you create yourself, "for the dwarves"
You don't have to go talk to them first, do things you think they'll like and get people involved, they, or some other NPC might well then get in touch with you about it.
The key is to try things first, don't wait to get authorisation from a DM (or an NPC)
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That's about the response I expected. Given that I haven't been playing again for very long I can't really comment on that with a Current-CoA perspective.
In other news, I've got something of a proof of concept you DM folks can use if you'd like; this is an updated version of CoA's clothing hak which can be slotted in as-is, and shouldn't mess up anything currently in game as it only adds things, not changing anything. Either add it to the module and remove c_lisa_clothes, or rename the file to overwrite it. I don't know if it will hook in to things like the player-side customization, but it'll be in the toolset for use. All it is so far is Eurgiga's fur pelts, and SpiritOfDragonsong's wizard hats, all cloaks.
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Sweet, it should just work, as long as the armour chest peices are set up correctly in the 2da, as the customisation system I made, automatically takes in new haks without the need for any scripting changes.
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Ah, that's fancy! Also, use this version, fixed a minor mistake.
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I'd like to mention something on the subject of plots while this thread is still kicking.
Personally, I think part of the reason so many plots have stagnated recently is because they're simply too big in scope or function for a smaller player base to handle- which isn't to say they're not good, but with the amount of players on the server maybe the plots should be scaled down to reflect what we have to work with and organically grow larger?
Let a misinformed decision from a player spark a war, or set an eldritch creature loose, etc.
I actually think there is a lot of merit to this suggestion.
+1
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As a player looking in, I know next to nothing. There are few forum posts, little rumors, and very little public knowledge. Its all being handled internally in faction and faction forums, which makes it hard to
1. Be excited over something with little public news
2. If I was visiting the forums, I would have little more than small hints of big stuff going on
3. If I was trying to involve myself in something, I would have to create a character and ask what was going on, rather than make a character and jump right in -
As a player looking in, I know next to nothing. There are few forum posts, little rumors, and very little public knowledge. Its all being handled internally in faction and faction forums, which makes it hard to
1. Be excited over something with little public news
2. If I was visiting the forums, I would have little more than small hints of big stuff going on
3. If I was trying to involve myself in something, I would have to create a character and ask what was going on, rather than make a character and jump right inditto. There have been several obviously very large events that have occurred in last 6 months that even though I do follow (cuz i care even if i dont play) the bulletin board/rumor/suggestion/discussion boards clearly I have no idea what they were.
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I always work hard on recording things, but it is difficult and not everyone enjoys writing lore. If there are events which you would like to see records of, don't hesitate to PM me and I will try my best to fill in some hints here and there. As always, I pay BIG money IG for player written books
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One reason I don't generally type up Lore is I always feel like I missed something important that's kinda necessary for the rest of the write up.
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I'm planning to get to chronicling some of the local events as they happens. I've got an idea in my head right now, actually, just a matter of getting it to paper. I wouldn't worry so much about missing important details, either people mention it or it clearly wasn't that important.
(Also just wanted to note that the hak I linked can't actually be dropped in as is without updating the main2das hak, because there's doubles in there that'll overwrite and I did not include that in the archive. If there's any interest in actually using this stuff it's not a problem to fix, though.)
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Really disappointed with the Chaos Brigade faction - a re-hashing of a former faction with a really uninspiring and convoluted write up.
A chance for something really fresh has been missed there!
It makes me sad.
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Really disappointed with the Chaos Brigade faction - a re-hashing of a former faction with a really uninspiring and convoluted write up.
A chance for something really fresh has been missed there!
It makes me sad.
Wait, have they started yet? I thought their intro was tomorrow..
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Really disappointed with the Chaos Brigade faction - a re-hashing of a former faction with a really uninspiring and convoluted write up.
A chance for something really fresh has been missed there!
It makes me sad.
I would like to comment on this specifically, even though most of the time I try to focus on the good work of handling bugs and building new systems and toys in the toolset and avoid buzzkills such as this. And yes, with all due respect this post right there is a buzzkill.
Because honestly? No player actually knows what we have in store for this faction and to what lengths we went to for ensuring it will be a fun place for Evil/Criminal oriented players to feel right at home. We built crazy things for this faction and trust me when I say the new things are nothing that was rehashed. And as someone who knows what it is on the other side, I'd expect you to also know that we never put all the cards on the table and factions can often be more than meets the eye.
I will refrain from pressing on my views on threads like this, but suffice to say that the team takes everything into consideration and takes plan on how to add certain things that were raised here.
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How can you be disappointed with something you haven't even seen yet? It's not a rehash. Plus this thread is about how to improve player numbers, not to make snide comments and insults toward those who created this group. Players said that they want support for criminal concepts, so we are providing it. How about letting us launch the faction and players get the inside scoop before you insult it.