Olouth's vision of how to save the server
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good rp tokens? first ive heard of anything like this since the weekly contest vanished years ago
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Good Roleplay tokens effectively makes you one level lower when determining EXP earned from kills and quests. So a lvl 6 earns the exp at the same rate as a lvl 5.
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1 is good.
2 is good, and is something that the DM team is actively pursuing; but there is a difference between a faction that has potential, and one that is completely dry of any possibility of a new direction. The latter is when it becomes ready to be trashed w/o player involvement.
3 just leads to circle jerking, but I will be giving RP tokens out like candy from this point onwards (no sarcasm, seriously, if I see you roleplaying, be it casually or in dogged pursuit of a plot, it will happen).
4 is good, but the reason we're abstaining from it right now (as in this month in particular) is because the disappointment from V5 failing to deliver was huge, and we want to have enough concrete details to get people interested (once we've agreed on everything) before we make any kind of official announcement.
5 is good, and I suspect I'll be doing some spell checking soon.
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@O'louth:
Jasede, I like you, but you need to get your head out of your rear end. I wont even comment on you B-Rock, since you have been doing this for years, being disruptive.
Jasede hasn't played in how many years now? our first good step would be to purge our forums of his/her toxic comments and just Jasede in general, cause nothing posted is worth reading
Uhm… is this some kind of odd humor between you and Jasede, what doesn't really come through to me, or is it the same thing we are fighting against?
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I do not know why you are so hostile to my idea. I was being serious, not trolling. I come to CoA once in a while to see the state of things. There are plenty good things and plenty bad things. But you can only gain by merging the player bases. A merger is inevitable in the distant future anyway; after all, we're talking about games that are going to eventually have vanishing player bases.
My post adds a lot: I wasn't afraid to state an idea that might sound bitter at first but is, in the end, in my mind the best solution. A combined or merged server would, in the end, yield more DM attention for everyone, a bigger, healthier player base and new, interesting worlds for both sides. Try to give my idea a chance before you spit venom at it; I may have stated it briefly but that doesn't mean I didn't think about it.
Both servers can only gain from such a move and the sooner you think about it now the sooner you can get used to the idea that it will happen in a few years anyway.
And for the record, not everyone has to agree with you. Just look at my idea: hardly anyone will want to agree with it now, but I am convinced that it is the future. If it won't happen now it will happen in a few years.
Now I am going to be "constructive", which apparently means agreeing with you.
One, is the continued negative spiral on IRC, on the forum, and IC as well. The second, is our failed attempts to keep alive what should die, the whole "not killing your darlings" attitude within the community and within our DM team. The third, the deterioration of quality roleplay and plotting. And finally, the lack of transparency of what the DM team is doing, versus what we as players are seeing, and following that, the disagreement between where the DM team seem to be leading us and where some of our veteran players wanting us to go.
- Negativity is never productive. And yeah, that's coming from me. But try to think of myself as experienced and realistic, not negative.
- Yes, I completely agree. This means attachment to PCs, plots and ideas that did not work. It all needs to go. Change in a PW is good.
- I can't say I noticed much deterioration.
- I think there is no need for transparency; the problem is lack of DMs.
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Uh-huh. Exactly.
The first initiative, will be a No Bullshit Policy. Trolling, ridiculing, bitching needs to stop, and it needs to stop now. I am one of the people who need to stop it. So I will start. But it takes more. The Forum administrators should delete crap on the forum henceforth. If it isn't constructive, delete it. Followed by a PM stating if you have valid issues, discuss with a dm. If not, shut the hell up, go on a bender, walk away, and come back once you have cleared your head. Following this, Ban people from IRC who cannot follow the guidelines. And ban those from the server who cannot understand that bitching serves no purpose but pollutes the atmosphere.
Be consistent. And bring in a Forum moderator or two. People who handle the forum work load, so the DMs are freed to do other stuff. There are plenty of veterans on the server who can be trusted with such.Some moderation is usually good in a forum like this, but if you take people's means to vent they just grow bitter. I advise against making players forum moderators; it should be DMs only. That will be more fair and avoids the issue of power-drunk forum-nazis that keep the place "clean" in the way they understand it. This happens.
The second, is to implement a "nothing is safe" attitude. I've been consulting businesses for years on this. Nothing is sacred. If something doesn't work, change it. But the belief that Factions, Characters, settings or implemented shit is safe, will only lead to bad things. I and I know many others agree, that some changes do not always have to be IC justified. Example: If Wyvernspur still does not get any applications, despite some dms loving it, remove it. Put something else in its stead. We have closed 10's and 20's of factions in the past because they did not work. So we as a community should be fine with it. If the dm team feels something else should replace it, then make it a week contest for the player base to come up with a useful idea. Our DM's should not carry all the work all the time. Give the players a chance.
This is all true but it should work with players, too. PC lives should also not be sacred. If PCs do dumb things they should die. Permanently. Force players not to play the same character for half a year. Most can not pull it off; those that can still can do so; but in general, cultivate a culture that rewards risk and be certain to enforce the consequences to that risk, even if it means permanent stat penalties, death, retirement, and so on.
The third initiative, is to promote our Roleplay appreciation forum. Try and bring back roleplayer of the week. but at least promote the forum section, and use it. Tell players if they use it, it will be noted. Give some EXP as a reward, but INFORM when you do it. Bring back Roleplay tokens. Use them actively. Ive always been a sucker for the carrot, rather than the stick. Throw those tokens about, let the word spread that those who roleplay consistently and even better promote good roleplay are rewarded. It worked in the past, it will work again.
I won't lie; I liked it when I got roleplay tokens. Still, these threads and and forums promote nothing but cliques forming that praise another, as well as a sort of we're all special culture. I suggest you instead try to give out more DM xp. It serves the same purpose and is just as motivating, but without the showing off.
And finally, the fourth initiative. TRANSPARENCY is THE concept of the year in businesses. Let us know WHAT you are doing. Those journals were awesome. Announcements of "we are currently rebuilding all factions, it will take a week or two more, stay posted" works wonders. When you as a dm team are discussing stuff, bring us onboard. Tell us about it. I know we have 4 or 5 DM's mostly working in the shadows. But I have no idea what they are doing. I know many others feel similar. More transparency equals less gossip, which leads to less bitching. AND THUS the circle is completed, and the fourth initiative assists the first.
I feel like this isn't needed, as long as people constantly have the sense that things are being done. Your complaint, I think, stems more from a perceived lack of things getting done than an actual need for transparency. I feel like this sort of transparency ruins the mystique and surprise that a PW has the potential for.
Now that I wrote all that, don't you think my first post was more concise and added more to the discussion than all this?
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The techincal implications are astounding. It's near impossible to merge the two without…. I mean you'd have to.... just....
My... head.... I'm sure it's not supposed to leak like that...
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Let's call it "Jasede's vision on how to save the server".
What can I say, I'm a visionary!
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People that want to play on EfU - do. People that don't - don't. Merging the two would cause the later half to leave, so you'd be stuck with the same group of players that EfU already has, and be out CoA.
So no, I don't find your idea visionary.
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People that want to play on EfU - do. People that don't - don't.
Actually, that…
I mean I did log on EfU at times to see what's the fuss about, and I won't lie, I found it exciting at first, but much less welcoming to the new player that doesn't know a single area of the server. Maybe some reading at the starting areas and forums would help but really, I found so hard to begin playing there without knowing anyone that I just very quickly quit. No doubt the players that play there are those who like it tough, cruel and PvP-centric, and I m sure I 'd like that if I found a way to begin the journey there.
CoA on the other hand seems more welcoming to the beginner adventurer, and surely my judgement after years of playing here tilts to thinking its easier. It s a completely different feel though that many people prefer. Is there difference in module build quality? Perhaps, but as far as the feel is concerned its a matter of taste. We don't need to copy it, we just need to decide the path we prefer for CoA and make it the best we can.
Merging in my mind is for car companies, that can produce different models for different tastes and needs. They merge, but can still maintain their clients by providing products for their needs. Our servers are just sinlge entities providing one single type of experience for specific tastes, so merging just drives people who enjoyed CoA away since they are minority and EfU won't be changing character or be more "care bear" than it is. It is already succesful. So yeah, I agree PaleRose.
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there other diff between EFU and COA.. there some mechanical diff too .. and it help me to come with my point here… I know there peoples who will gone be totally desagree with me.. cause i said this for long and no one agree lol.. but mechanical tools for make the game more like we wish and mechanical tools for help do do RP is a big part of what make a server Popular or not... but evry time i talk about it and bring ideas who go in this dirrection, DMS and some players always reminde me how the mechanical is not important etc..and Dms told me they juste dont want go in this dirrection and i have to respect this.. and they are right... and becose the base/number of the players who dosent care about mechanical was anuf for you, you juste dosent care... maybe it a good time for me to talking about it again..
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You take out the resting and eating system COA have befor..you sais.. it bring bugs and it anoye you to have to think to rest and eat and drink... but be force mechanicaly to find food and place for rest give you Ic reason to RP and do something.. Rp a scout who hunt for is own food insted of go in town and pay for is one of the reason peoples who like to RP scout like to play scout :P
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befor only the player who have the right feats and classe was able to enchent weapon.. and we needed a masterwork weapon for we can enchent it... we hade to deal and RP whit the weapon crafter player.. and with the enchantor(tress) player too ..there was no powerful magic items in
store.
On Efu.. you can not be in party.. yo dont see the icon of the peoples of your group so you dont know where are they on your minimap..or how much hp they have etc..
On Efu priest domains have diff powers..and priest have holy symbol who can get more power if peoples accept to prays for etc..*mechanicaly *
On Efu all the character have a magical desease who cant not be cure .. and more you play more you become a undead and get diff color of auramechanicaly until you fully become a undead and then you have to stop to play your character or ask a special permission to the DMS for continue to play you character. it fix the problem of peoples playing characters for to long.
I have many others things coming in my mind but i know ...am talking to much when i start.
.PS . ho and about bitching ...and talking agains eachother complaining ..etc..etc.. my solution is to use place in the forum where only DMS can read it ..not the players.. i use the player - plot - forum. and the dms are even not force to anser me.. i mean. i dont exept a anser.. i juste use it for the know what am doing or what make me piss off about how they act or about how it go...i think it good there a place on the forum for we can talk to the DMS openly but where the other players can not read. .. DMS dosent have to anser.. the DMS who wish to read it... can read.. thos who dosent want juste dosent .
......to be continue -
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Love every one of the points you mentioned Olouth, in regards to merging CoA and Efu there is no way that would happen as the settings are fundamentally different. CoA is still semi canon whereas EfU has completely forgone canon and brought the end of the world. Not to mention all the techinical difficulties that would be involved and whatnot. Playerbases are different as well though a lot of them are ex CoAers from early v3, though in regards to viruzz83 comment about the harshness of the server CoA used to be a hell of a lot less carebear than it has been these last few years. PvP was less restricted and conflict was certainly more rife than it is now. Quests also were much harder to survive and getting to level 10 was actually an accomplishment. I support Olouth's suggestions because I think returning the server to that state would be for the better.
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@O'louth:
I wont even comment on you B-Rock, since you have been doing this for years, being disruptive.
I'm so so sorry Olouth. So instead of beating the dead horse. I will post this link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9HF2bd14jA
Over 500 people have seen what CoA is about, with one of our best DMs to ever join the team...ever.
Enjoy.
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Love every one of the points you mentioned Olouth, in regards to merging CoA and Efu there is no way that would happen as the settings are fundamentally different. CoA is still semi canon whereas EfU has completely forgone canon and brought the end of the world. Not to mention all the techinical difficulties that would be involved and whatnot. Playerbases are different as well though a lot of them are ex CoAers from early v3, though in regards to viruzz83 comment about the harshness of the server CoA used to be a hell of a lot less carebear than it has been these last few years. PvP was less restricted and conflict was certainly more rife than it is now. Quests also were much harder to survive and getting to level 10 was actually an accomplishment. I support Olouth's suggestions because I think returning the server to that state would be for the better.
I actually agree on this. If we could get to that level of harshness, it would be better, without changing the spirit of the server. The thing is, while reaching lvl X seemed an accomplishment, perhaps the fact that we know the game better mechanically has something to do with it. Even if the past seems idealised as people tend to do that about past experiences, the amount of PvP and harshness seemed overall better, (Shadovar wars and on, and until the Phoenx Legion took over I think).
Maybe the DM and PvP policy has got to be a bit more lenient, but truth is I do not think it is required, it just seeks of us to be reasonable about PvP, not ignoring NPC guards and stuff.
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I would personally prefer the pvp rules to be a little different, and a lot more 'harsh,' myself, but that is just a personal opinion. The problem with making them so, is that characters that are telling an epic story being snuffed out by a dude that did fifty quests in a day, pretty much sucks ass.
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Not if the dude doing fifty quests uses this to also tell an epic story. Without them potentially ending they seem less worth telling; and in a way, the awesome of the one player, who is killed, adds to the awesome of the villain.
I am saying getting killed is no problem if the killer is telling just as swell stories, using the reputation and influence the kill gave him to create even more awesome in unpredictable ways that may have never happened had the first player not died.
Fantasy novels are boring and more predictable without murder; Game of Thrones would be a lot less interesting if nobody died in it.
To alleviate the problem with "dude who did fifty quests" vs "dude who never quests" I suggest being more liberal with consumables - and encouraging questing. Ideally, the PC who does not quest a lot surrounds himself with body guards, or attains so much influence that killing him is more trouble than it is worth, lest the wrath of many PC and NPC factions rain down upon the killer. Think Vetinari.
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Hi. Thanks to dond doodle's relentless assault on my facebook notifications, I caught wind of this thread, and decided to come out from my rock and make a few comments. I may get stuck on one for a while, since it contains the greatest fallacy in CoA's long history;
Point 1: Bitching and complaining is never going to end. People will never stop getting frustrated when they die at a high level, loose in pvp, or the dm plot didn't bounce the way they foresaw it happening. The only thing that can feasibly change is the way people react to said bitching. If you take it personal, be you a dm who ran an event that killed half the party despite them having an easy solution they missed or a player who just wiped out half of team good in pvp, the cycle will just continue. If you take the high road and realize that people usually just need to cool off, chances are you will not only help the simmering down the situation, and it will eventually lead toward the realization that things will not always go your way in the minds of those bitching since they aren't getting the reaction they so desperately crave. Unfortunately, the people able to do this well no longer exist on coa, and maybe never did. I know I personally left without looking back after finding out a dm who is likely the most respected dm in the history of CoA was holding a grudge against me over something I said years ago. It wasn't so much one man's personal opinion that lead me to this choice as much as the realization that if the top of the pecking order can't put himself above the bullshit, shits just gonna continue to trickle down. I'm sure there is some Reagan fan somewhere reading this saying "Is that really a bad thing?", but the rest of you can likely see where I am coming from.
Point two: I think this has been accomplished already, factions have come and gone. That being said, if you came up with a faction with a really cool story line, I think you would want to give it every chance to take off you possibly could too. Don't be so quick to try and kill things others created.
Point three: This is silly. If its experience and accolades that are driving you to roleplay, then you aren't really having fun roleplaying. If no one is having fun on a roleplaying server roleplaying, time to close up shop. The end.
Point four: Here's some transparency for ya. Rebuilding a server is a fuck load of work. If you read through the lines of what zool said throughout this thread, they are in the process of trying to figure out if its worth their time. So, unless by transparency you mean :Today on the dm irc channel ponies said "I think it would be really cool to have a faction of pc badgers if we do decide to rebuild":, I'm not really sure what else you are looking for.
Random stuff:
I think the point people are trying make by saying merging efu and coa together is that the playerbase is thin, and it would be cool if we were all just in the same playground. Personally, I would love to see some collaboration between the two servers, though what that would exactly mean would take months of discussion between the respective dms to decide on.Be nice to B-rock. He's always been a top notch troll, and if something he says in jest takes out CoA as a server it was a house of cards ready to blow over anyways.
That is all, back to my rock.
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Not if the dude doing fifty quests uses this to also tell an epic story. Without them potentially ending they seem less worth telling; and in a way, the awesome of the one player, who is killed, adds to the awesome of the villain.
Sure, I should have said
'Guy that just does fifty quests a day and has no real content to his character apart from killing stuff.'
Killing is fine, doing quests is fine. But then killing a guy that has been creating some of the most fun stuff on the server permanently and then continuing to do fifty quests a day and very little else is pretty poop.
I agree with you Jasede, entirely. There is zero wrong with questing, at all, in any way, it's why we make quests, to be done, they are a huge part of the server and always should be.
Just saying, if there is a guy doing awesome stuff, and he gets trounced by someone doing really very little, who then does very little afterwards, it sucks.
Perhaps though (and I have been thinking this a lot myself) the guy doing all that cool shit, should gain such awesome stuff from doing it that being killed by someone not doing such would become insanely hard.
The problem with that system though, is that feelings of favoritism from DMs may increase, as the kind of power talked about above would have to come from DMs to make it a plausible system.
Quite the conundrum.
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I think the biggest issue is there is simply not enough players or DMs.
While it seems to go directly against the notion of "intrigue", perhaps what is needed is boosting Adventure at the expense of intrigue. Lessen the number of factions/pcs that are city-supportive.Promote people to join factions that are part of plots that are anti-city. and I don't mean criminal. I mean things like zhents, orc supporters, etc. Have a place (like Immersea could have been, with pirates) where these factions rule, so you have official Pirates at risk of PCarrest/gank in Immersea and Pirates at risk of PCarrest/gank in Arabel. The majority of PCs would be unaffiliated, at leata officially. That's where the intrigue would come from.
Doesn't need much of a "server rebuild" at all.
Could breath whole bunchs of new life in. -
The problem with that system though, is that feelings of favoritism from DMs may increase, as the kind of power talked about above would have to come from DMs to make it a plausible system.
Quite the conundrum.
Just keep it in secret. Like good rp tokens. Problem solved.