DM Announcement RE: Favortism Et Al.
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hey Jadeth :) thank for your anser It help me to understand why i dont have good relation with DMS…
I juste want to anser something to you about your exemple ..
Jadeth exemple of how to get DMS attention:
NPC: We need an army to fight the Orcs. We have no army
PC: I will create an Army. I will make a new faction.
NPC: Ok.
DM: This is interesting, he is giving the NPC what he needs. NPC is now happy.
Two Weeks Later
PC: Wow, my Army is pretty big. And we've been killing orcs in DM events for 2 weeks.
NPC: Very nice, I will give you a shiny sword and a promotion
DM: Players are getting involved. And he has some victories. He deserves a reward, and the NPC is very happy.
Three Weeks Later
PC: My army has 20 people, and has fought the orcs, the undead and the evil guys in the forest. Awesome
NPC: Wow, you are helping me fight all my enemies. I am going to support your faction directly and do alot of stuff with it.
DM: Wow, he has 20 people in his army, we must do more stuff for them. The NPC loves this PC, NPC will now give many rewards to player.
One Week Later
PC: Ouch, I am dead, some orc guy killed me
NPC: Thats too bad, you were doing alot of stuff. The NPC thinks you are too valuable to lose. You get saved.
DM: This PC has 20 people following him, and is involved in generating fun for 100 players. He gets a Get Out of Jail card.-... let know there no NPC who come to me or to my groupe for ask us something..... that apen to you..... and even a npc come to us and said that kind of things..well
- ... AS you know we try to build a faction of elvens who live in the wild and wil interact with town affaire realy if they dont have choice....thos groupe will not gone reach 20 players.... there maybe 5-10 players who will join this kind of faction...
It not a faction creat for fight in massif DMS batles or for fight in PVP until they die or until the war ended .....
- ... the NPCS on this server .. ARE SOMETIME 20 LEVEL .... why you constently go get kill in some war for them ??? ..
I dont understand why the npcs here are so powerfull.. i feel like a child at disneyland... and when childs go to much craizy .. there a park guardian(npc) come for clean them mess....
I DONT KNOW.. OR You realy afraid of what the PC can do OR YOU realy not trust the players rp for not let them reach level NPCS can reach... or for put npc so high level compar of the PC..
- why i will bring my groupe in some war .. massif batles with 30 players arond and lagg and to powerful npcs ..where the members ofmy groups will die...constently and stop play for this reason ????
This VIDEO game (NWN) .. not be creat for massif batle..... it bring so much lagg.. and ....it nothing more of dms put monsters for players to fight... wow..
.. you do not feel it boring to see 30 players running after monsters DMS BRING TO US ???
Thos DMS MASSIF WAR..ARE WAYS LESS INTERESTING OF ANY SCRYPTED quests... cause in scripted quest .. you need scout for traps.. open luck... there still strategie to do and you are with a max of 8 players aprox... you get time to talk and no one talk in the same time . about stupid thing who dosent have anything to do about the game but only for show how they rp and get dm attention... ....
In your exemple.. you talk about .army.... etc.. I DONT WANT BUILD A ARMY.... i want faction peoples 5- 10 players who share the same goal and have fun to rp with...
in your exemple .. your army have couple of victory.... but that juste in théorie... in fact even there a victory.. there will also be death for all the characters in thos batle.. lost of exp.. wast of gold and players who will stop play them character becose they are to depress to fight craizy dms spawns......
first let know i do my rp and get peoples with and dont need a npc until my groupe need it for a IC reason linked to our goal... .... i and when my groupe go talk to a npc it becose i already get alote of rp with this groupe.. it becose we already talk about goals... and it becose we need to talk with this npc for reach it... not becose we want DMS ATTENTION or for play in them war agains the Shardovar .. or i dont know...
If i go in DMS GAME it becose there a story with interesting and intelligent stuff to do... no fight in a war...
are we are on W.O.W server ????Aneways i can understand you like this kind of DM game or rp.. but not me... and it have nothing to do with the fact english not my first language...
I juste dont see the point for DMS TO CREAT massif war even and maybe some players have other kind of DM GAME .. WHERE THERE 3- 6 PLAYERS AND WHERE THERE A STORIE..etc ...I be happy to participate in thos games... but for the rest and for thos war batles . i leave this to the childs players who want to fight monsters in a vidéo game...
Cause i can do this whitout DMS..and it ways less dangerous.. ways more tactic.. and more aisy to understand what peoples said cause they dont talk all in same time...and the monsters are set for this server... it not craizy powerful monsters..where DMS need to bring legendary( Elminster and Black staff) NPC 25 level for kill them own monsters( DM MONSTERS) at the end... Why thos powerful super npc dosent come and deal with thos monsters unsted or ask to low lever character to do the job AND DIE 10 TIME .. in 30 minutes.. ... ..shrugs...
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Considering you just insulted our entire player base and most of our DMs by calling us "children" I'd say there is a reason no DM goes near you. I know I won't be in the future.
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cool.. for someone who tellling me you dont understand 99 % .. you pretty well understand this last one… i supos my english . improv sudently... cause telling me you dont understand 99 % of what i said... it pretty insulting .. it insult my intelligence... cause i know you and most of peoples arond understand..and it juste a excuse for trying to discreditate what i write...
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You'll be very safe from my horrible 'DM Game' until one of your characters does something awesome
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ok i am tired of this thread for many reason
first off… Azazel may have difficulty in english, but for me, as english is my second language, and i am still able to undersand what he wrote i think you (dm) are just not really interested in understandind is point... yeah aisy isnt spell aisy but easy.. although i understood... and i aint english shheeshhh..second, everytime a player argue that dm are not fair or dm are not always right, there a second dm posting a reply about how dm are so good and always right... funny to me as 2 months ago dm were saying they didnt had any favorite and now ooohhh you do say you have... i was given shit months ago to have dare said that.... and now you dm , yourself are saying it lol.... crazy...
third, about dm favorite players... well see it this way dm ,what we meant by favorite... jadeth invited me for a dm quest... with gems and tanvir dree and one other( new daedeloth character, sorry dont remember his name), the quest: get to the elves and make a alliance, once there everyone die about 4 times each form battle with shadowvar and elven undead, except me, probably because i was higher level than most.. still the things is, once we are all in front of the npc elven leader, we all introduce ourselve, and guess what she does pray the same god as myself :sehanine moonbow, so for me being a priest of sehanine moonbow i am overjoy... but wait, she doesnt even look or talk back to me, but answer and greet jadeth elf character and tanvir a human... but not the priest of sehanine moonbow... hmmm odd.. but maybe the dm didnt read my greeting, so i talk once more but then again i am being ignore... and then she said she would give us some minor trinket and elven magic item... i didnt see anything given... although i know for a fact items were given... but not to me or my character knowledge... so yeah.... that is not only favoritism but exclusion... but now jadeth can forget my priest elven playing with him.. what is the point to try again to play a elf with other pc elves when dm ignore you completly... and by the way.. before any dm come here and reply anything... keep in mind we were 3 actualy talking with her, me, jadeth and tanvir a human, as for gems she was just rping her character with tanvir not with the elves, my point well dm knew i was talking to the npc but never talked back to me.... for hell sake ... I WAS A PRIEST OF HER ORDER, NOT SOME UNKNOWN LOW LIFE WOOD ELF... BUT MOON ELF TOO, SO WHY... WHY.... because dm dont care about some player, and dm give quest to other players... ohh yeah jadeth being a new elf created way after mine, has already many dm quest, named a elven leader, and got dm item already... i, myself tried with winter to help the elves get back on their feet again, made post about it, and played with many elves around.... you know dm... when you arent there giving those favorite player a game... they come to us, to power quest because they died in yours, but they dont when they play with us in scripted quest, and they rp with us, but rp less with s when you are around... just saying that so you understand that those who make your server alive are also those you ignore the most.. thank you again for this marvelous dm experience.... but no worry i rather play with player than dm....
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If you want NPCs to recognize your character there are two ways to do it:
1). Apply for official status as a member of your clergy.
2). Gain attention by doing awesome things in game. Make a reputation with other players (not even DMs) that says "This guy IS the priest of the Moonbow to which all others show respect". If you can't even gain a reputation with the other players, of course you won't have one with the DMs either.Feeling entitled to DM attention because you created a certain race/class is not going to get you any. Getting rude because you think you're the "heart of the server" isn't really going to change anyone's opinions though. You and Azazel may not have English as your prime language, but you are both quite rude and whether you speak French, Spanish, or German–we probably have a DM who speaks that language too and would be happy to help you past the obvious language barriers if you'ld simply simmer down, be polite, and willing to talk instead of ranting.
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So there again, nothing new here, funny to me as i did that with my character dratz, applied for it, made a concept for dm to read, made a diary for his ealy years background, never anyone of you have answered it, as for my pc recognition with Winter, you dont know who know me, so again you are assuming nobody know me, instead of asking me on tell/green who i am or something like that, you preffer ignoring the player, good call, also i know perhaps more players personaly than you know yourself, since i have played with almost everyone here more than once.. some on many occasion too, perhaps you know some player a lot more than me, but overall, i know them all in some way… you dont since you didnt even knew me as winter, as for being Rude, having opinions, sharing my though and views, as i see them, isnt rude, rude is like someone who doesnt open you the door AND slam it in your face, perhaps i dont open the door for you, but i certainly dont slam it in your face, so then i am being blunt not rude, as for a clergy.... i never saw any elven clergy on the server so applying for one is pointless or would be ???, also i dont see any rule on any character creation, that require absolute approval of dm, anyway, if you guys neeeded to approve all character created, you would have no time left to breath either,
and by the way saying that i am ranting that is being rude....and irespectful of my views and ideas and opinion of my gaming experience here,,,, plus i never hinted i was the heart of the server tshhhhh where do you get that... i simply said i was bringing more than you thought, as i quest every single day more than 8 hours a day, so i do help in bringing this server alive, that was my point tshhhh... exchanged ideas and views on how things should be or not, always bring fits of passion ... anyway this is a post that turn in circles, i mean everytime i will write something, you will find other things to make me look as being wrong , and i will then have the ''bright idea'' to respong to it with argument that would support my views being right... so that said, you have opinions, i have opinions, and everyone else does too, who is right or wrong could be hard to determine on many topic/subject/opinions , although you are the judge/dm, so your judgement is final, and that i always accepted no matter what... but since it was a open post i felt like sharing MY EXPERIENCE as a player here
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lol…ALRIGHT.. let forget about it.. ....
After all i juste anser a post you put on the forum where we supos to write what we think.. AND HONESTLY.. i never wasting time to write stuff about this... if you didint be rude in your post presentation....and talk about thos who talk agains DMS AND HIDE LIKE ..how you call them ..
I expect we have a few cockroaches who will scurry once the light is turned on
Mr.Moloch.Well maybe you didnt exept you gone have few cockroaches who will not scurry once the light will turned on and will be glade to take this oportunity to be shure the light not become juste a other 'color spray'' ..
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Questing for 8 hours a day doesn't gain you any reputation on our server.
Adventure and intrigue does.
You could quest to lvl 40 and NPCs wouldn't really care. That's how it works here, sorry if you don't like it, but that's why it's a role play server, not an action/arena server, as we try to promote story telling as the way to gain power/respect/reputation/etc.
Expressing views is fine so long as they are presented in a respectful manner.
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ohhh right in my 8 hours daily on the server i only quest.. i dont rp with anyone never…NOOOOOOOOOO ( sarcasm) .. again you assume much, but you dont know much either then.... i stop here now you ll be the one ranting on...
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I am sort of guessing here, because I do have a hard time understanding the ESL fellows posting here, but I think I get the gist:
I've been in situations where a "main character" who has been working on getting a plot moving invites me along on a DM quest. I've been dismayed when trying to RP taking part in the DM RP interactions and getting full-on the idea that the DM is only listening to the "main character". I've sent a tell to one DM to the affect, "Is anything my character would do going to affect this?" and been told flat out, "No." I was morally crushed for a minute. You do feel like everything was a big waste of time, especially when you get killed by a large spawn tacked onto the RP event at the end.
I step back and look at the situation and accept:
A. This "main character" has probably been working on things leading up to this event for weeks, and just because he happened to ask me along, it is ridiculous to think that focus would shift to my character. Whether the DM uses this opportunity to spend time to throw out a plot hook or give ideas on how my character can get involved or just keeps focus on the "main character" or logs off in the end, I have to accept that it is his choice. As a player I can choose to 1. Follow up with the "main character" or use the IC board to follow up with a NPC or find other PCs who I might work well into the plot or 2. I can write it off as a total waste of time and feel like I just watched what felt like a pre-scripted exchange between the DM and his pet. I will say, that since it is easier to do #2, a lot of people do that instead of #1.
B. The DMs likely have never heard of my character, and unless I take the initiative to make contact with them OOC or in in IC boards I can not expect them to, unless people are talking about me OOC or in the IC boards or swarming to me IG (and not just to quest train). I can not assume just because I quest with a couple of dozen players every day that I am "well-known". I've got some awesome 5-8th level fighters in my vault who a lot of people love, because I play in a time zone where people are short tanks to quest. There is no way I should consider any of those characters powerhouses in the political scene or with NPCs who whether mechanically or politically are on a completely different level. There are thousands of 6th level mercenaries in Arabel, probably hundreds of low tier elf priests running around the forests, and thousands of plucky adventurer types of all sorts who 99% of the population cares nothing about. The characters who strive to elevate themselves to being important to NPCs have a long road ahead.
BUT
It's getting there on this hard long road that is fun - not the end. It's the fight along the way that's the adventure not the "now everybody knows me and I have power," part. You usually retire or get killed off at that part. Enjoy all your failures and have fun.The road has bumps:
Players don't bite on your plots- get new plots, don''t expect the players to change.
DMs don't respond to your tactics - contact them and find out what they might consider a better tact or just try something new. People get mad at the DMs all the time because the one thing they tried didnit turn them into the next Thune (is that who this is about- never met him), or Pryatt Pree or whatnot. Those people definitely didn't try to do one thing and then rage quit when it don't work out. The probably tried hundreds of things. When you're really working it, you have to make time to even quest at all, you're so in demand.
You die. To really stupid things that aren't in the script for your character that you wrote up before you created them. Bounce back. If you've made as many allies as you think you have, 3 levels is nothing.
I'm long winded and often wrong so I'll sum it up:
It sucks to feel ignored or misunderstood, but you need to reach out and work with the DMs if you want DM quests, lewt, NPC interaction. It's been stated what they want. It doesn't mean that there's a formula: get concept+3 PCs to say they're on my side + quest with them while talking about plans = DM attention! I get the idea some people are filling out rosters and have no idea where to go next.DMs: if you have the time, it's well spent giving plot hooks and ideas to players you don't know and taking some side interest in these "unknowns" when they hop in on someone else's quest. I know the return on investment sucks because 95% of us never do anything with them or completely miss the point but those other 5% usually turn out to be decent players and once in a while one will turn out to be the next awesome.
EDIT: got called mid thought and hit submit and was talking about how DMs suck or something. Don't remember point, don't have time to get on ranting again, DMs don't suck.
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for my part.. the problem was not that i didnt get item from the npc, i dont care about that, nor was i waiting for the npc elves to ackoledge my priesthood and make me a high priest or anything, .. my point was after everyone introduce themselves, by name, the npc only ackoledge three player out of 4….. cmpletly ignoring me.... not even saying ''hello'' or a nod, nothing.... a big f..... noghing... that is bad dm'ing, very bad in my views.. i would never do that to a any player.. i would simply ask him not to show up for the game, if i dont want him there. also i was invited in the game, on gree/tell , i didnt want to go, but was asked again....
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What no one mentioned is that to get DM attention you need to actively seek it. They don't just jump at you all the time and build plots around you even if you're awesome roleplayer and play one of the coolest characters around (cue Vigor). You are supposed to create plots and then ask DMs for assistance. At least that's my understanding of how it works. You need to be very active on the forums and on irc. Azazel and lanfear, you spend lots of time in game and you're fun to interact with. But you are not really seeking DMs' attention, no wonder you're not getting it.
Your PC was probably ignored because it was Jaded's event and not all DMs can concentrate on multiple characters at the same time and still keep rp dynamic.
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lol.. i dont think Winter mean he quest 8 houre days… i think he mean.... he play 8 hours ... and he quest and having rp in thos 8 hours i supos... and i think he also quest with peoples who rp with hime too and creat link... if you think save the ass of someone 2 time in a quest ddint creat some ic link... well. i dont know... i will not gone save your life then... lol..
aneways.... that kind of anser ..so... pff. i dont have words who will not be insulting about this kind of anser. lol.. but aneways..
I think the probleme of Winter is becose he play 8 hours lol. and shoud maybe play less hehe..
aneways..
lol.... what about a new faction aplication..
The cockroaches faction...:
what THE FACTION ask : - need to be able to polimorph your self in Cockroaches..
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10 in charisme max...
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always stay IC
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creat a character .. find a concept.. able to survive and be usful in a groupe in a adventure..
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blind fighting... cause when the light come you need to run and hide in the dark...
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having past exepriences of dying with other character in a dm game and be the only one who be ignored or be
the only one not be rez by dms.. or already posting many IC things on forum without any feelback..and even you have good
rp with alot of players arond, DMS constently telling you .. about how you need a reputation and stuff like for get npcs
respect.. -
you need to be able to level up and survive whitout any DMS exp or dms help AND you only can use magic weapon or gears or
anything who already exist and are avalable for all the peoples who play on the server if they find a ways to get it or are lucky
with the loot... .. -
Always have a invisibility and a hast potion for run aways if you see any server distortion or none commun things apen arond...
like a goblin starting to talk to you in comun about something you have in your bag.. ( for thos who see the Matrix... you know
what it litle like when you are in the Matrix and sudently the same cat walk front of you tow time..etc.. .. That mean your are a
detected and a detectged Cockroache is a dead cockroache... .. so you have 10 minute max for find a ways to reach a safe place
and log off..
ALRIGHT . AM JOKING. :p .. what els we have to do with this post aneways....
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Man, I spent a lot of time trying to help you guys out via the Forums. this is just discouraging now. I really want to help people to have fun, but I'm out.
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yeah me too
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alright…:) .let leave this post to the rest of the peoples arond. see you.
The Cockroach dig a hole and return in is dark smelly hole with the rest of is kins
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Unlike virtually all the former threads on favoritism I think This thread actually was pretty good until somewhere around page 4 or 5. Then it got derailed into arguing. Sigh.
RP does not equate to creating/involving others in interesting things. I RP a lot. I -know- my RP is fun for others and appreciated because I get tells about it, and often my characters are sought after to join various player factions.
I also know that i am often NOT creating advennture/intrigue in the last several years, and I know why that is.
I accept that, due to that, my "rewards" and being sought as one to be given plot hooks and such will be limited.My point is that it's not RP. its creating something special. A elvish PC faction is not different than a PC mercenary faction.
A PC faction has to -DO- something, a lot. Find something to do, that involves other PCs, especially ones NOT in your group and do it. Proactively not Reactively
Do that enough, and THEN try and involve NPCs in whatever your goals are.You know what the gleaming blades got, after several RL years, countless PCs volunterring to be in multiple large plots, aiding many many factions?
A sword that shined, and did +1dam, for teh current leader to have
Individual characters got rewards based on what THEY did. but the group itself, as basiclly a "club" to hang out in got little.
Which was appropiate. -
DMs: if you have the time, it's well spent giving plot hooks and ideas to players you don't know and taking some side interest in these "unknowns" when they hop in on someone else's quest. I know the return on investment sucks because 95% of us never do anything with them or completely miss the point but those other 5% usually turn out to be decent players and once in a while one will turn out to be the next awesome.
We do this. All the time.
I dropped an important plot hook related to the war on a bunch of new / uninvolved. A PC seized the plot by the throat, and the result was the death of Prince Melegaunt Tanthul. The guys involved in that group came through. Even better, it was further followed up by an previously mostly uninvolved character (up to that point) who rocked it, and the end result was the capture of Prince Hadrhune, ultimately leading to his defeat and retreat from the war.
Let me point out something I think most of you might not know / if you do, aren't pointing it out.
I'll use the war example, as that is what started the thread.
ULK and I dropped dozens of hooks, on dozens of players. Very few of whom we'd even seen before (really).
They did one of two things.
- Did nothing with the hooks, forcing us to find new groups to drop them on.
- Brought them to Thune.
And then, said Thune was getting all the plots & attention.
"….."
We are aware of our responsibilities.
Choosing who to play with is a luxury that players can afford, not DMs.
We want a server where everyone who logs in can be involved and have fun.
All the talk of "formulas" and "favoritism" ultimately boils down to players simply not understanding what we reward. Or, reading into our posts only what they want to see. Ask for clarification if you don't understand, don't assume that you know what we said better than we do and work on erroneous assumptions. It never leads anywhere.
To sum up, I'll just say very obvious things.
1) Any group can get DM attention if they're out adventuring. A small one-shot quest. A quick hook that may or may not lead anywhere. Random luck in this case.
Do stuff that generates interest among other players and be interesting if you want personal DM attention. Please note the very obvious use of italics and the word "personal". There is a huge difference between how interesting you are and how interesting you think you are. Learn to accept that in a mature fashion.
2) Don't hate on other players for no reason other than because they were able to pull off stuff you couldn't. That's very petty.
3) No one is entitled to or owed anything. You get what you earn. Leave your sense of entitlement out when you log in. This is not PnP. The DM is not here to float around you with personal attention. Accept that things other PCs do can and will derail your plots, ideas, even your character. Accept that this is not a campaign server, it is a persistent world. Accept that you are not the protagonist unless you push yourself out there to such an extent that other players acknowledge you as one.
4) Don't turn your personal gripes into some kind of huge "server problem". They're still only your gripes. Try to contact a DM to see if they can be addressed. Perhaps consider for once, maybe you're the one at fault / misunderstood something. If it's a genuine issue, it will be addressed.
If it's decided that it's not an issue, then accept that the server is not tailor made to suit everyone's individual preferences. You may well like something someone else does not.
5) If you don't trust the DM team to be impartial, listen to your concerns, or run CoA in a proper manner, find a new server with a staff more to your liking. Why make yourself miserable logging into a server whose staff you don't trust? It's a game after all. No one is obligated to play here if it's not fun. Why spread your misery to other players / DMs? Maybe CoA is not right for you.
6) DM burnout is very real, and very frequent. I think most of our players are well aware of that. Players often complain there aren't enough DMs. Read through this thread and several others like it, I think there are roughly 1-2 per year, every year. Take a second, and think about why the DM burnout rate is so high.
I think this thread has about run its course.
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While adventuring with my family of newbies, I've had the feeling on a couple of occasions that a DM was doing stuff, which is really cool. It means either the scripted material and the setup of random encounters is done so well that it feels like a living server, or DMs are just stopping by briefly to provide well-balanced challenges to inconsequential players. It's probably the former, but that's part of the DMs' job too, so kudos for the experience you're providing to everyone that just wants to get online and play their own way.