Luring enemies agaist the rules?
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Ok…today when a DM was watching for any further bugs that got me killed outright unfairly. He mentioned to me that my tactics was Exploiting and can get me banned.
This is luring enemies in a big room to small corridors.
I mean come on.......Who has not say bring them to fight at the door?
If this is true then no more traps, Cause you have to get them to run on them.......No more holding a door, cause you lure them in to fight at a choke point..... No more fighting in corridors to keep them from flanking and getting to the Squishies.
So this means from now on everyone that dose not want to cheat has to charge into mob filled rooms and get surrounded.
I want to hear from the other DMs please.....If this is true then Why do we play with tactics.
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You have to use good judgment. Luring one or two enemies from an entire group at a time to kill off one by one is kinda exploiting the AI, as real groups of enemies would likely all charge at once. Luring an entire group into a smaller corridor for tactical advantage is not. The problem I see here, is that its really at the DM discretion because you could legitimately be trying to lure the whole group into a choke point and only one follows through no fault of your own.
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Yeah, if your pulling one away after the other to kill them on their own then that's dodgy. Getting a group attention and then falling back to hold a tight passageway is fine.
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An easy way to do this is to shoot at one in the middle/rear of the enemy group, instead of the one nearest you.
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Apparently, there are quite a few shady rules, not mentioned anywhere on the forums, that can get you banned or vault wiped at DM's discretion.
Maybe someone should compile an enhanced set of server rules?
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The exploit "I'm assuming" is when there's a large group of monsters, say 20 goblins, and you get just close enough for say, three or four of them to see you. Then run back a fair way and fight only those, rince lather and repeat. Which although being a popular world of warcraft strategy, is very unrealistic
Its right up there with walking backwards to bug ai trying to hit you. At-least to my understanding this is probably what they were talking about. I seriously doubt choosing your battlefield is an exploit, unless of course you chose say, a cliff or a jump check because the enemy doesn't know how to get to it and just stands still until they die.
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The new AI should mostly solve the luring away one or two thing. Should…. should....
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Yes, but he was pretty blatantly abusing it. Lots of people were today that I noticed.
It is fine to try to lure monsters to a doorway. It isn't fine to snipe one at a time over and over again to kill them. If the whole group isn't following, its time to go in and fight fair.
What you were doing was relying on the fact that the enemies would chase you one at time and not in a group. When that's happening, you have moved from tactics to blatantly cheating the game.
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It's also relatively frowned upon shooting at enemies who have no ranged weapons over a gap or chasm until they die, as any normal creature would just run away or find cover somewhere instead of standing there.
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do all this go for undead, constructs and other things not supposed to be smart?
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Shooting at enemies across a gap is frowned upon also? I agree with Direfish, if these kind of things are considered cheating they really need to be listed somewhere. Or at least a "few things to consider regarding mobs and AI" type thread
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do all this go for undead, constructs and other things not supposed to be smart?
This is a pretty good question, one that I have contemplated myself. Granted, I think its more fun to rush into a room and let everyone fight then what is often considered good tactics by players less mechanically inclined, but as a "when in rome" type of player I have often thought what the line was when it comes to animals, undead, and other stuff that doesn't communicate like say a band of orcs or goblins would do.
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@Leaders:
do all this go for undead, constructs and other things not supposed to be smart?
This is a pretty good question, one that I have contemplated myself. Granted, I think its more fun to rush into a room and let everyone fight then what is often considered good tactics by players less mechanically inclined, but as a "when in rome" type of player I have often thought what the line was when it comes to animals, undead, and other stuff that doesn't communicate like say a band of orcs or goblins would do.
You use your common sense. You don't abuse NWN limitations. If you can hit a skeleton or zombie with an arrow, if its too stupid to move, its stupid enough to leap down the cliff and destroy itself. Thus robbing you of XP. So obviously, you don't do it even then.
Furthermore, please….really? You want a list of all the lame ass ways people can abuse the NWN engine to cheat and gain easy XP at low risks?
We won't really do that friends, we just ask you use common sense. If you pick a fight with me and my twenty buddies, I'm not walking out of the bar to meet you in the alley. We're pummeling you in the bar.
If you as a player know you wouldn't fall for something so obviously stupid, then you should know most the NPCs wouldn't either if not for limits of the game world. If you think the foe is too stupid to not fall for the trick, assume it is also too stupid TOO fall for the trick and play the game fair.
We've had these discussions a lot for the last 11 years. I'm always impressed people can claim to have never heard them before. :) It tells me we have plenty of fresh blood still in the player base!
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Also people.
I don't ever want to hear the excuse of "I can do it therefore it's allowed, WYSIWYG, if you don't fix it, then it's valid to abuse until you do".
Seriously? That's a defense?
I'm willing to DM kill people doing that.
And perfectly fine with them rage quitting from the server. Because I don't care if people like that play here or not.
No tolerance for cheaters. Not ever.
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Yeah in hindsight a list of this kind of thing would be a bit of a exploit list for some seedy type players…
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What would really help me is if they actually start exploiting said things and get their characters deleted.
Like we're stupid enough not to add logging messages to actions that allow exploits.
Oh yeah, we actually can call up an online report on who exploited what and where.
There is no getting away with it.
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Please don't imply that all players who find themselves doing things you deem abusive are cheaters.
NWN engine has certain limitations and quirks. When you play the game these limitations often spring right at you and no player running from imminent danger at Near Death finds himself thinking "oh, can i use transition to avoid being killed or will it be an abuse because my common sense tells me that monster would probably follow me and finish me off?"BTW, now that i think about it, i don't know the answer to that question.
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Running away and passing over a transition on the way? Not really.
Luring a gang of orcs to a transition so you can transition away, heal up, pop back in stealth kill another, transition out heal up etc….. Well that one is self explanatory.
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I don't think they are implying that at all, at least I hope not. And, the answer to the question you find yourself answerless is likely this; if you transition with a monster on your heels, it will likely follow you. If you are far enought that it didn't, you got away. Abusing transitions usually refers to bouncing back and forth when being chased by another pc, npcs generally follow you from map to map.
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Just wanted to point out that common sense often does not apply to many standard gameplay situations or instinctive player reactions because of said engine's limitations.
Like when a mage gets attacked, usual tactics is to run around your fighters to generate AoOs. Does it make sense for a monster to follow a mage in circles and soak damage until he's croaked? Is it an abuse? Is it an abuse only if the monster is smart? I can go on for a while with such examples.I've been playing on this server for half a year but the fact that you can only shoot a stranded monster if he also has a ranged attack was news to me. Moreover, I've yet to see a party that ignores an orc on the ridge or a goblin across the chasm and I've never seen a DM reacting in a negative way.
So I can't agree with Polaris, because arbitrarily banning people for things others do daily (and DMs close their eyes on it) doesn't sound like a good idea.