Surviving as a Caster
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I may be a bit drunk, but this is about the most insanely idiotic discussion I have read in a long while.
I dont give a fart and never have, about what you play or how you mechanically throw around your character, as long as you make an interesting character.
The good old Kaleb, retainer of house Thond, had 12 dex, 10 con, and 8 strength as a bard, and besides the vanilla bard songs sucked balls. Yet he was ALWAYS brought along on any quest because he roleplayed his character, and made the quest interesting.
If you want to UP your survivability as a mage on CoA, LEARN WHAT SPELLS DO! Prepare a bit of everything. That way, when you see a mind flayer, you throw a spell of Protection against evil on the fighter and let him go kill the thing. If you see alot of enemy spellcasters, dispel magic and counter spell can save the day. Fireballs do damage, Mage Armor, Shield etc makes you harder to hit. Prepare a summon spell or two if you are in a tricky spot.
Oh, and if you actually roleplay a smart and interesting person, I am rather certain you will be taken on any quest you desire. Learn what spells do and how to use them, and suddenly you will become an asset to whatever questing party you enter.To sum up. Roleplay, be interesting, and you will survive much better. If you entertain enough, dms will shower you with loot. If you hide in invisibility all night, and play a boring and dull character, chances of dm loot, and people who want to help you survive go down the drain.
Ill go back to drinking now.
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@O'louth:
I may be a bit drunk, but this is about the most insanely idiotic discussion I have read in a long while.
I think you might be, yes, because the point isn't what someone who doesn't play a mage cares about or not, the point is what do experienced mages suggest for survivability. Also, deliberately being rude is generally a bad idea, also indicating you may be drunk.
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You're missing out on the entire point of the discussion olouth. Ta ta
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@Green:
I've seen four basic types of pure class mage/sorc on CoA:
- The mage who buffs the fighters and stays in the background with their crossbow/bow
- The mage who shoots fireballs and acid arrows from the back lines
- The mage who summons
- The mage who turns him/her self into a monster and joins the front lines.
You forgot 5) The mage that casts no buffs, summons or offensive spells of any kind and stands at the back with a crossbow making you wonder why you even brought them along.
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I've seen spell swords too, they are pretty cool.
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Spell swords are cool in theory, but I think in practice they're just not a great idea. Attack bonus too low, hp too low. I think a fighter/bard who uses wands is a better idea, which is why my main, Gina, is exactly that. Gets expensive, though, all those wands. She's always broke, but that's ok. I have a lot of fun playing her anyway.
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Although the original post is very poorly worded, the people who object to it should relax alittle and take this for what it is. A suggestion, on how someone -could- play a mage, one possible avenue of becoming powerful and survivable.
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This wasn't a discussion for the archetypes of mages on CoA, I was discussing on how to make ANY mage more survivable.
Ways of staying alive and still remaining useful to the group, etc…
My intention wasn't to say, PLAY IT THIS WAY, I was giving some helpful advise that ANY wizard with his intelligence score would be able to discern for them self.
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@Notsoslimshady:
@Green:
I've seen four basic types of pure class mage/sorc on CoA:
- The mage who buffs the fighters and stays in the background with their crossbow/bow
- The mage who shoots fireballs and acid arrows from the back lines
- The mage who summons
- The mage who turns him/her self into a monster and joins the front lines.
You forgot 5) The mage that casts no buffs, summons or offensive spells of any kind and stands at the back with a crossbow making you wonder why you even brought them along.
That would be me. And I was hoping I made you wonder.
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@SpiffyHas:
This wasn't a discussion for the archetypes of mages on CoA, I was discussing on how to make ANY mage more survivable.
Ways of staying alive and still remaining useful to the group, etc…
My intention wasn't to say, PLAY IT THIS WAY, I was giving some helpful advise that ANY wizard with his intelligence score would be able to discern for them self.
Yes, I, for one, got that. And I appreciate it. I've never been any good at wizards. I can play very, very good tanks (ones who actually protect the group, not assholes who run ahead and try to solo), pretty good rogues, and decent but not stellar sorcs, but when it comes to clerics and wizards, who have to choose their spells before they even know what they'll be up against, I'm lost. Clerics I wind up playing just like my tanks, and wizards I have no idea at all what to do with, so any tips on general spell strategy that works in the majority of situations is appreciated.
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I did fairly well with Amar. I only died twice. Once was because I got Zooled. I'm happy to sidechat with you in IRC.
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I'm never on IRC. When I'm on the computer I'm usually doing something else that requires lengthy afks, which aren't conducive to live chat, so I'm here. If I have time to focus on the computer, I'm in-game. I really appreciate the thought though.
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I will throw my two cents in here. I think there are two threads of conversation here, one about how people role play their character and another about what mechanically might help your character survive. As far as role playing is concerned, play your character as you feel is appropriate based on what you envisioned. Understand that some choices that are IC might not work out very well mechanically, as a result certain other characters might not want to undertake dangerous tasks with your character out of fear of things going poorly. However, that is all IC and frankly makes the server interesting.
As far as mechanically making your character survive longer as a caster, think about the following things a player. Please note the below suggestions are intended for the players NOT the characters. In other words due what makes sense for your character, the below is for PLAYERS who are asking about the mechanics of NWN.
Information for the Players of Mages:
1. Understand that your character has a hit dice of d4. This means that at level 7 if you have no bonuses from Constitution, the most HP your character can have is 28. Now, remember that NPCs can roll natural 20's and score critical hits. Most critical hits I have seen can easily land around the 20 - 30 damage range. In other words you can be one hit killed very easily. How do you deal with this? Investing some ability points in Cons and Feats like Toughness are a good way to start. With just 12 Cons and Toughness, your possible maximum HP at level 7 moves from 28 to 42. That is a massive jump with very little input. When you make these decisions keep in mind thats your -maximum- possible HP if you roll perfect HP rolls on every level up which you most likely wont. In other words investing in Constitution and Toughness Feat are not a bad idea.2. Read what spells do and consider how they apply to your character. This has been mentioned before and is perhaps the most important point of playing a caster as a player IMHO. Understand what the spells do and plan accordingly. Some spells have neater graphics than others and are visually impressive, that does not however make them the best spell.
For instance lets take everyone favorite spell, Fireball. Fireball does 1d6 of fire damage per caster level (unless this was changed on CoA). So lets take our level 7 wizard, if all the damage rolls on his fireball spell max he can do a total of damage of 42 to each creature hit by the fireball. Sounds good right? Keep in mind that a goblin with 1 HP left will hit just as hard as a goblin with 43 HP. Is fireball a bad spell? Not at all, just understand that simple because it looks awesome does not make it the best spell from a pure mechanics standpoint.
3. Realize that buffing your front line from a mechanics stand point will almost -always- be more effective than utilizing pure summons or damage spells. Why? Lets take them in order of consideration. Summons are neat and dont hurt when they die, however they also cant run back to distract that goblin that is chasing you or chug a few potions when things get dicey. In other words the other characters in your group are nine times out of ten much tougher and better supplied than anything you can summon. Making the other characters more powerful is probably a better idea purely mechanically speaking.
Now lets look at pure damage spells, remember how I said the goblin with 1 HP will hit just as hard as the goblin with 43 HP? That means your damage spells have to kill every single goblin entirely or you still die. Lets face it, you have a limited number of spells and probably dont have enough spell slots for that many damage spells.
How to handle the above form a pure mechanics stand point? Understand that mechanically speaking the most effective solutions usually ends up being buffing the front line and holding back a few damage spells or summons for those really dicey situations. Please remember this is not saying do it this way if you have good IC reasons to play it another way, and frankly the fun of an RP server is non-powerbuilt characters.
4. The Best Spells in the Game, Mechanically (IMHO)
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Protection from Evil / Good: This spell lasts an hour / caster level and can protect your frontline from mind affecting spells of that alignment (ie evil guys cant stun or confuse them), and remember that most NPCs are evil when questing. It also gives +2 AC against the chosen alignment. In short this spells helps ensure your very low will save fighter frontline character remains in control of his/her player and effective.
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Circle of PfG/PfE: Even better, ward everyone in your group with one casting.
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Magic Weapon: Lots of things out there have damage resistance, some quite high. With Magic Weapon you get past any 1DX damage resistance. Can not attest to how important this is, especially against undead. Is also means the person you cast it on gets a +1 to their attack base and damage.
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Spells that Boost AC: Why? It makes your front people harder to hit, remember to save one for your self. IE Mage Armor / Shield. Shield also blocks magic missile, this is huge when facing lots of low level NPCs like imps that might cast this.
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Improved Invisibility: This spell grants 50% concealment even after the person it's cast upon does an act that causes them to be revealed. What does that mean? Lets assume you cast it on your Ftr frontline and gave them some AC buffing as well. Now they have an AC around 28 or so and then you hit them with Improved Invisibility. Now when an NPC attacks them they have to first get past the 28 AC, ie roll a an attack roll higher than 28, and THEN the NPC has a 50% chance of missing the Ftr entirely due to the concealment. What that equates to usually IG is a very high survivability of your Ftr who is taking very little damage. Even if the Ftr gets into a tight spot, they can chug healing potions while deal with the attacks of oppurtunitey (sp?) because of the 50% chance of the NPC missing them. Hit yourself with Improved Invisibility as well, it makes you far more likely to survive. This 50% miss chance applies even to critical hits.
I know a lot of people like stoneskin, remember that stoneskin absorbs 10/+5 of damage up to 70 points of damage at level 7. In other words if the NPC hits your caster for 12 points of damage, you still take 2 points of damage. Once the stoneskin spell has absorbed 70 points of damage, it is gone. This is important if you are surrounded by lots of NPCs dealing small amounts of damage. If your AC is low, they can eat through that 70 points very quickly. Also if you are hit with a critical for say 30 points of damage, the stoneskin only stops the first 10 so you are still hit for 20 points of damage.
- Elemental Resistance: Most damaging spells and traps are elemental in nature. The resist element spells last for 24 hours, and absorb 20 points of a given elements damage. Once it absorbs 30 points of a single type of element the spell fades. This is a -life- saver for yourself and your frontline. The more powerful versions of the spells are even better. Use them!
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Mage Armor wont work on anyone wearing armor with higher AC then 4, so it is only good for monks or dex based characters in leather armor, or characters effected by Polymorph
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A lot depends on the situation.
The way I remember it when I played as Dredo was, at first Summons (since you needed the meatshields for yourself and team), then buffs (especially if you had a rich selection of the most popular protection spells) and eventually mix of the previous two elements, and in addition self-buffing morphing. This is what I faced, depending on his levels.
When heading off for adventures one of the key elements is your group. If your group lacks a frontline (which is possible) you have to be the frontline, or you must have enough summons to hold out while the rest of your team handles the enemy. To be good in either one of these roles you have to specialize in either Conjuration or Transmutation. The problem with being an Offensive Wizard is that your powers are greatly limited, if you want to depend on only the spell slots you have. Otherwise you will have to invest in wands and other items, which could end up being used up during a single adventure, because the rest of the group was unable to chip-in.
But a Wizard can perform just as well in certain roles as other classes. It is important to have a flexible spell book, so that you can prepare your spells, depending on your group and task. It is about the same philosophy I had with my Rogue, Jestin Krows. He was a Rogue, decent in the distance and good close and personal. However, one of his surprising traits was the ability to "tank" "Bosses" (the one case of Parrying a Dragon will never leave my mind… together with poisoning him... good days).
It is impossible to be prepared for every single scenario, but do not become "set" on only one scenario. Be capable of improvising if the need arises... even if it's only to flee with style.
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i made my Glork Glorinson with the idea in mind that he was a mage that would be able to 'fill the gap' if one of the frontline fled/collapsed/stepped out to heal. as it turned out he became one of the first melee mages i think.
as a dwarf with high con and toughness he had lots of hit points, which was an advantage, but even so he frontlined from level one. the correct choice of spells allows you comparable ac and ab to a fighter, whether this is the best use of your spells is another matter of course…
if you have enough spells also to be able to throw some fire around as well.
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Trust me, make an awesome character who's a spell sword, and create a lot of fun, and I'll make loot that'll make your spell sword perfectly viable in combat.
Builds are really not as important as all these threads seem to suggest, not just because you can augment most of it with items, allies, and potions, but because this isn't an arena server.
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Builds are still important though, as long as PvP is involved, a better build will have an advantage
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(real life) experience / gear / consumables / henchmen >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> build
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In theory that would be true, in practice not so much, especially since a power build can also get gear, consumable, and henchmen (usually more henchmen)