Shaman's Mask of Doom
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I am making this thread for all those that went with on that suicide mission called the "Shaman's Mask".
First off I would like to apologize for dragging you all into a mission never done before in hopes of finding a new recipe.
I found at first it was going a bit smoothly, yes we took our time and ended the orcs Lives and all went smoothly. I say it all went up in smokes when we got so far separated when we thought was the first boss. Did my best to Invisy people being chased and curing the fighters. But it seems all at once it went sour fast, everyone died on me and Cat. I tried to get the bodies, but oh no out of thin air a dozen heavily armed orcs appeared and would take swings at the invisible gnome as she passed so I had to forgo on the rescue.
Now the new area that the orc was guarding with the second boss. Gaaa. Fiendish spider I was scared. Was doing pretty well till the dang Orc paralyzed me and the spider saw a tasty snack. I almost made it out without dying but no good. Poor Cat was chased back through the cavern were she ended up Spider chow.
It was just soooooo over balanced at this point it was amusing watching the three new Level ones trying so hard to take down that orc. Finally we ended his life and got the mask yay, Time to turn in the quest. 500 something in gold to replace the 5,000 in wands and pots maybe more…..... Then we all thought by the way he spoke when we finished we would see rare item store
............No Store..............
Can not help but laugh at that point. Everyone died at least once, three many many times, for what? We all swore that no one will ever do this again.
Reminded me of Abby's Gobline Fire Suicide quest. LOVED helping him test it. Never returned to do it when it was done.
Also DMs note, we utilized getting the Orc trapped by the tables and door.
Actually a few of us thought we Won Arabel if we turned this quest in.......
I want to hear the views of the others that was on Suicide run please.
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I had lots of fun! It was very, very tough, and best of all, none of us had any idea what to expect. But now that that novelty's gone, I don't think I'll be doing it again. Too much risk for the reward, it seems to me.
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different quests suit different play styles and different expectations. Many of the quests out there are really quite easy. Some now, are more challenging for those who like more challenging quests. These will not appeal to everyone, nor should they.
With regards to the "store", this has been my intention, but I have been unwell, nor do I spend 16 hours a day building stuff for CoA, having othr things that take my priority. I will get round to it, but for now, it is not there.
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I've heard similar discussions from very well-looted, decent level and competent players who got TPK'd on this quest by what wasn't even the real boss. Personally, I like a challenge, but I won't go on a quest where I know every party I've talked to has been nearly TPK'd finishing it, and the gold reward doesn't come close to the expendables required to finish it.
I fear that this quest will get a "party killer" reputation, and nobody will use it at all. If it's intend to be TPK strong, perhaps an OOC courtesy in the quest giver description that warns you it's insanely hard like the ones on Fey Optional?
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perhaps an OOC courtesy in the quest giver description that warns you it's insanely hard like the ones on Fey Optional?
Exactly what I thought. I think there is no problem with super hard quests, as long as you give hints to the players involved about its nature. I mean, the quests was 3-8 (or 4-8), and we were supposed to retrieve some mask, we could not guess we would need a heavy party to do this.
We were very patient, we used good tactics, with scouting, and lots of expendables, inclunding grease, caltrops, tanglefoot, traps, etc, but there was no way, since bosses had +20ab, and dmged 20ish average.
I had lots of fun! It was very, very tough, and best of all, none of us had any idea what to expect. But now that that novelty's gone, I don't think I'll be doing it again. Too much risk for the reward, it seems to me.
Same feeling of Catrin
s player here, I had fun with it, it was new, etc, I didn
t even get mad at being put back to lvl 1, since I had the option to back down after second death, but I wanted to see the end of it, but I think reward should be better for those that try it in the future. -
Same feeling of Catrin
s player here, I had fun with it, it was new, etc, I didn
t even get mad at being put back to lvl 1, since I had the option to back down after second death, but I wanted to see the end of it, but I think reward should be better for those that try it in the future.Remember we did not see it all the way to the end. There were Vampires left…...
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I just want to throw this out there. Keep the quest as is, or make it even longer and harder. I miss having a couple of quests that were really deadly, and really rewarding to complete.
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I concur with Indiana Jones. Let's leave it as it is. And actually, I like that people jumped to, "Put a warning there," as opposed to, "OMG NERF." That was refreshing to see.
But yeah, thanks for the head's up. I wanna try this now with a really prepared party.
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I just want to throw this out there. Keep the quest as is, or make it even longer and harder. I miss having a couple of quests that were really deadly, and really rewarding to complete.
The point was 5K to run it for each person and 500 back. Died so much the Boogoo XP was for not. And Abby said He has not done the store yet.
…..What reward?.....
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I just want to throw this out there. Keep the quest as is, or make it even longer and harder. I miss having a couple of quests that were really deadly, and really rewarding to complete.
I totally agree, but if the quest requires the kind of consumables I've heard of it requiring.. the reward doesn't come close to matching the effort.
And I do NOT want to see uber hard quest nerfed. But a nice little warning would be great, along with a more aligned reward size.
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Don't mind the idea of an uber hard quest as long as it's intuitively obvious that the quest is uber hard. The reward should also be proportionately larger, or, if it isn't, that once again should be intuitively obvious before you start the quest.
It's the fact that neither the extreme difficulty or the small reward are obvious that needs fixing, imho.
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Sounds like a great way for an uber party to power through for massive XP to become more uber while everyone else dies.
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I found the quest quite easy and more fun, as the difficulty kept people from running ahead, also the secrets are superb and worth the suicide.
With a decent group, it was not difficult at all and gave time for the odd chat and also a chance to admire the surroundings while fighting. -
Sounds pretty cool. Going to need to find this.
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This was the quest that killed bellington when he was seven, starting a endless loop of questing and dying that eventually drove me to quit the character. I didn't make it to the boss since i chose to log out after the second death, but heard it was waaaay overpowered, enough to inspire a DM to raise everyone who died to it. It should likely be shut down until it can be tweaked so that more people don't suffer from the "oh, look new quest I'm going to try it" deaths that occur.
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Or… make an OOC courtesy of warning how dangerous it is. I got pwned back to lvl 1 here too. This is the kind of quest that can only be done with an ideal group, heavily prepared for it.
I think its even tougher than Fey's optional. I've done Fey's optional having only one tank, with a party of 4 (including one that got killed back to lvl 1 at the beginning of the quest, and pretty much couldn't help at all).
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@Giba:
….. This is the kind of quest that can only be done with an ideal group, heavily prepared for it.
..Not hvaing done it, or knowing what quest it is, just read the comments here…
It seems that quests such as this, which apparently need people to be "prepared" for it.. go against the very concept of not metagaming quest knowledge. Instead of putting effort into designing or tweaking such, it seems effort put into ways of having randomized quests would be better -
Not hvaing done it, or knowing what quest it is, just read the comments here…
It seems that quests such as this, which apparently need people to be "prepared" for it.. go against the very concept of not metagaming quest knowledge. Instead of putting effort into designing or tweaking such, it seems effort put into ways of having randomized quests would be betterThere is always some level of metagaming when doing scripted quests, unless its something completely new to you. You know you can't do certain quests without rogues, you know what spells to prepare to some quests, you know if your group is sturdy enough for that quest, etc.
I think this is not a big deal, players should be able to consider that, and chose between risky quests, and not so risky quests. Fey's opitional is a great example for me, it has an OOC alert about that.
Most quests can be done with less than ideal groups, and thats fine. The ones that can't, should have IC or OOC warning. Like, if you're going to storm an orc camp, its obvious you should bring a good number of warriors, etc.
The problem with Shaman's Mask is that it doesn't sound that dangerous, but you have spoiler alert several good ab orcs wielding 3x double axes and at least two +20ab, high AC and high damage output bosses that would take a dedicated buffed fullplate fighter to tank, and many more high dmg charaters to flank it, and but it down. spoiler ends
When we tried it, we had a nice and balanced group, with two frontliners (including a pure fighter fullplater), two rogues (one of them lvl 7), a cleric, and a lvl 7 wizard who focused on buffing and healing for that quest (the most effective way to quest with wizards), but it wasn't enough, because one of the frontliners and one of the rogues didn't have the ideal gear and levels. Altough it was tough, we could move on by using lots of consumables, but when the boss showed up we couldn't just deal with him. We even isolated him, using tons and tons of grease, caltrops and choking gas, used buffs on the fighter, but he still steamrolled the whole group… twice.
If you don't have an idea you'll deal with something so über, you will get pwned, no chance. An IC or OCC warning about it is necessary in my opinion, and I also think it would be nice to boost its reward too, lest it will continue to be an abandoned quest.
I know I and everybody who did it before won't do it again again until we hear it was toned down, or got a substancial increase in reward.
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There is no obligation to enjoy every aspect of the server. Over the years I have played, I have heard many comments about quests being boringly tame. With this in mind, I have been writing some quests that are designed to push those players who enjoy a really tough challenge where they don't know if they'll come out alive. Heros, after all, don't kill rats, they go after dragons, risking life and limb.
As far as metagaming quests, as Giba says, there is no way not to metagame quests that you have done. You know what to expect, where the monsters are, what spells are useful, which ones will be wasted, who to bring and who not to. You know if you need a tightly knit team that operates at it's peak, or can just grab a handful of random PCs that fit the level.
Seriously, guys, If you don't like a quest, or think it is too difficult, don't do it. There are lots of easier quests that you can enjoy.
With regards to loot, there is some rather interesting themed loot that is available in that quest. It is randomised. Sometimes you're lucky and find it, sometimes you are not.
Having said all that, I guess that it is the time of those who enjoy a lighter weight server to complain now about things being too hard, rather than the turn of those who prefer to be challenged and regard the server as full of Carebears. Nothing wrong with that, I guess.
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I didn't try the quest yet, but I'd really like to.
I'm sure noone had meant to degrade your work put in designing quests, and I think having harder ones is quite a good thing. And with loot levels shifting a tiny bit upwards with coming v5, the quest might look a tiny bit easier then now…However, a warning on the quest giver (or rather a system to mark difficulty on quest givers) would be neat.