Fun and Full Damage



  • Something that came up in IRC today. Give your suggestions for how you can create fun for someone that you want to silence without using FD even though you feel compelled to.

    WARNING: This topic should NOT degenerate into bickering over PvP policies, FD policies, or even your personal feelings regarding FD. This is for creative suggestions only. If it steers away from that, I will ask a DM to close it.

    Anyway, to begin. I've always enjoyed the idea of cutting out someone's tongue, blackmailing them with horrific dirt, or dangling something very precious to them over their head.



  • Other than FD, I can't think of anything to guarantee silence other than an OOC agreement.



  • A bit of both maybe? Threaten the life of a character close to theirs if they talk, and kindly ask the other player if that's agreeable. Might not be for everyone though.

    Edit: P.S. I've always seen fit to extend the benefit of the doubt to those who have stayed in character and approached my characters with creative methods. You might be surprised how open people are to having their characters coerced, maimed, harmed, scared, killed if you just make it worth their while.



  • First thing that comes to my mind is make a mutually beneficial deal with them. Cutting someone's tongue (and hands would have to go too, i guess) or blackmailing them only means that instead of FDing them now, you're making them want to FD you later. Nothing's really changed, you just switch places.



  • Not exactly sure what you mean by Slience Them, but why would you want to? At best you might want them to keep quiet for a while, but for the sake of the story, having rumors of your crimes seep out generates more conflict and adds to the mystique of your evil reputation.

    Having them "Keep Quiet" for a period of time is understandable but having them forever silent may not be the best for future conflcts.



  • Well, if you each are "individuals" with yorur personal goals youd rive forward without much interaction, then yes, it's justr a matter of perhaps switching places and wanting them to FD you later.

    BUT, if you and they are a bit social, then do things like get your six black-clad halflings to sneak-attack a barrage of rocks (Subdual mode) on your target's best friend. And let them know if they talk, it will be arrows next time.

    or you let them know how you will arrange to have various plans fo theirs ruined.
    Or you frame them so if they talk ti sounds like theyre trying to pin something on you but it was really them.

    So many ways other then direct game mechanic violence, that are far less boring.



  • Ways to silence people without FDing the person in question at that time:

    1. Threaten to FD their friends and loved ones if they talk. Follow through on your threats to make the point.
    2. Take from them something extremely precious, leaving all the other things. Tell them if they talk you destroy it. But if they cooperate, they may even be rewarded.
    3. Pay them.
    4. Recruit them into your group.
    5. Beat them until they promise not to talk. Make it clear their life is forfeit if they do.
    6. Hint at having some sort of plot knowledge that is important to them and show a willingness to share more if they cooperate.
    7. Have spies in their organisation that keep you apprised of their actions so you can react if they do talk.
      9-1) Tell them you have spies without having any spies to keep them off-balance.
    8. Take something inconsequential that you don't need a DM for: a tooth, for example. Only take hands/arms/tongue with a DM.
    9. FD them, raise them right after, tell them their death - and life - rest in your hands.
    10. Commit crimes in a disguise and invest into Bluff so it doesn't matter if they talk because your identity remains unknown.
    11. Let them talk. Infamy is the mark of any great villain.

    @TricksyHobbit:

    A bit of both maybe? Threaten the life of a character close to theirs if they talk, and kindly ask the other player if that's agreeable. Might not be for everyone though.

    I had a long response for this but I think that is against the spirit of this thread. But I will point out that you are under no obligation to "kindly ask the other player if that's agreeable".

    And most of all, don't think them talking is a bad thing. Like I said, that is what makes you a memorable villain: people talking about your misdeeds and gathering to hunt you down. Your'e doing something right.



  • Could someone with some experience comment on how a good character might accomplish something like this? For example: A character who has enemies to silence or intimidate, but isn't about to do any tongue-cutting or family-murdering?



  • Give some more examples; I can't really imagine why a good character would ever have to "silence" someone.

    Situation A): The good character did something horrible or evil and needs it not to spill. He can then resort to any of the methods we already came up with and slip further or he can come clean and admit his actions, thus seeming like the greater, more responsible man, facing the consequences.
    Situation B): The character you need silenced is actually spreading lies. In that case, your good moral character should promote people believing your side of the story far more than the made up one.
    Situation C): Someone is spreading information about some Critical Plot Point that your character doesn't want to fall into evil hands. In that case your "good" character may do either of these things: resort to above shady measures in the name of a greater good, find someone else who can do what is needed or simply accept that there are going to be spies and begin counter-measures to being spied upon: see invisibility, spot and listen ranks, talking behind closed doors. Or he could turn the situation to his advantage in other ways: feed the leak/mole false information, or hire him, or confront him and hand him over to the law if applicable.



  • Any of the examples Jasede posed would work fine, methinks.



  • @Jasede:

    @TricksyHobbit:

    A bit of both maybe? Threaten the life of a character close to theirs if they talk, and kindly ask the other player if that's agreeable. Might not be for everyone though.

    I had a long response for this but I think that is against the spirit of this thread. But I will point out that you are under no obligation to "kindly ask the other player if that's agreeable."

    To clarify, nobody was suggesting players had any obligation to do this. In my experience, it detracts from the excitement. Even so, some people are fond of their characters and might prefer something along these lines.

    I've had application characters of mine killed in pvp with little to no buildup without DM permission and it sucks, but it's part of the game. I've also had players PM me and tell me their characters are going to kill mine and that also sucks, because you lose any element of surprise and it affects the way you play.

    Just remember that death is a part of the game. At the end of the day, it's up to a player's discretion and the DMs' approval. But it's a player's responsibility to give his peers returns on their investment of time and energy. You don't have to wax all James Bond villain with it, but give me a better reason than you just think my cleric's amulet of wisdom +3 would look better hanging from your character's neck.

    Robbery, looting and loss are a pain for the victims involved – at least give someone a memorable story for his or her troubles.



  • @TricksyHobbit:

    I've had application characters of mine killed in pvp with little to no buildup without DM permission and it sucks, but it's part of the game.

    No it isn't.

    FD pvp with little to no buildup without DM knowledge is not acceptable, and you should contact a DM if such occurs. Application character or not.

    Also, stick to the topic of suggestions for more interesting means than straight up FD please.



  • @Zool:

    @TricksyHobbit:

    I've had application characters of mine killed in pvp with little to no buildup without DM permission and it sucks, but it's part of the game.

    No it isn't.

    FD pvp with little to no buildup without DM knowledge is not acceptable, and you should contact a DM if such occurs. Application character or not.

    Also, stick to the topic of suggestions for more interesting means than straight up FD please.

    OK. It happens, though, but less often now. And I, and the DMs who asked about it after the fact, have a great level of respect for the player responsible, so it was allowed at the time.

    As for it not being a part of the game, it is. Against the rules? Yes. But it does happen – DMs aren't always available, and not everyone playing the server has taken the time to familiarize themselves with the rules.

    Beyond the exhaustive list Jasede posted above, it's tough to devise anything that ensures a character's silence like certain death, or the threat of it.

    From what I understand, DMs are often chosen for their creativity and ability to involve other players, so how about some ideas or methods with which you guys have had success? I'm all ears.



  • I suppose a way that would involve others and not involve killing the character would be hiring an assassin(s) to make an impression on them. Have the assassin rough them up, knock 'em around, threaten everything they hold dear, take them to the very brink of death before letting them go with their life intact. Even then, that's simply violence.

    Looking at it from a more subtle standpoint, there's always the implied threat. A good example might be Petyr Baelish from ASOIAF. His exchanges with other characters almost always involve doublespeak and leave them guessing at his intentions. In the show Game of Thrones, this is depicted when he has what appears to be a sentimental moment with a whore at his brothel after she's been assaulted by a patron. All the while he's feigning sincerity and concern, he's implying that if she ceases to be a profitable asset, her fate may be worse than death.

    Bribery's never out of the question either. If your character is cunning, he might consider it an investment in his and his opponent's future to keep that particular character happy with a lavish gift or helpful piece of information here and there. And if he's particularly slick, he'll do so in a way that would convince the other character that they have the upper hand on him and not he on them.



  • There have been a fair few topics like this in the past, do a forum search, and I'm sure you'll find plenty of useful advice, from players and DM's.



  • viewtopic.php?t=145413 If this gets implemented in the future than I think it would be a great alternative to FD PvP


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