Motivation.



  • I know parts of this may sound neurotic but that's an unfortunate side effect my frustration. If something is said that seems offensive, please understand it wasn't meant that way. . . I'm just rather at my wits end (which might not be all that far to go but that's it own thing!)

    Lately I've had an absolutely crushing lack of interest in the server and its characters/general 'fun' factor and I'm kind of not sure why this is. . . But there've been a few things that just really kind of upset me, which may or may not be part of the issue. Firstly, getting people involved– great, sure, absolutely. Getting people involved is a good thing but how do I go beyond that and actually -get things done-? I've tried approaching the DM team a few times over various characters and for one reason or another nothing ever really comes of it. . . They're busy, I get that, not pointing finger of blame or any of that nonsense but I don't know what to -do- outside of say 'hey, I got this idea I'd like to pursue' and send it to them. The actual pursuing of it tends to rely on some form of interaction with a DM and then without a direction to go. . . I mean, I'm pretty well lost.

    My own motivation/ability to pursue things generally drops flat when it involves PvP because I'm a big pansy and I -despise- those PC's who's entire reason for existing is to cause strife, so I generally avoid them even if its not at all IC not to just put boot to head and be done with it but at the same time, getting people interested and /directed/ (this is a fault of my own, I have no illusions to the contrary.) towards a goal tends to be rather. . . I dunno. I just can't -get- it happening.

    So I guess the short version is that I need some help from -someone-, hell, anyone. . . What the hell am I doing wrong and how can I fix it? What change in mindset do I need to make here to enjoy playing my damn character and get something done?

    And please, spare me the 'reactive players are gonna react' diatribe, that kind of elitist bullcrap makes me want to choke someone with a dirty sock.



  • I was frustrated too until I have some of the more experienced players teaching me how to get stuff done. The trick, as I've seen it, is it set goals in steps. For example say you want uber-shiny-sword-of-Trom. (AKA the only quest I ever got done) I first came up with a plan in small steps; 1. Gather people for expeditions to dangerous locations looking for celestial sapphires. 2. Every once in awhile when a DM was one and I had a big group of players send a tell that I had a big group going sapphire hunting in 3. Eventually after involving enough players DM's granted my my sought items. Those were all just part of step one of a long plan. From what I learned from more experienced players than me who always seem to have massive DM loot and attention is that they come up with long and drawn out plans that involve others FIRST and then ask for DM help after they have earned it and made things interesting. What I was doing wrong in the past was just pming a DM with "I want shiny item plox" instead of showing them "Hey I've involved X groups and Y amount of players over the last few weeks on my own without any other support and we are looking for Z-item with a large group already prepared.

    Hell, Akdul, the most feared and despised single PC-villain on the sever once sent me a tell "I'd like to do something like that but it would take a few days of doing stuff to prove I deserve it". I have no frustration for DMs who don't want to run my plots anymore. I just take a step back and rethink how I can run it while involving more people or how I can tweak it to be more fun. Getting stuff done in Arabel requires patience and desire to involve others. Do you think Landon would have gotten shiny demon slaying sword of Trom (a piece of DM loot just for him) if he had not created a long and fun storyline for others first?



  • @Kathrine:

    that kind of elitist bullcrap makes me want to choke someone with a dirty sock.

    You may borrow mine if you like.

    Also.

    I have this same problem, except, I find factions boring and concepts too long winded to really put through the process. I tried it once. It took a little while, and then I decided the character I was playing was just a bit dull (for me), and quit it. Too much effort for a good chance of not being interested.

    Sometimes I'd like to y'know start on plot hooks, advance characters beyond basic RP, roleplaying speech defects, and emote my character taking a piss in the underdark, etc. But again I just think that it'd be a waste of time to bother a DM about characters and concepts and the like, because I may simply just lose interest or the idea will simply never kick off because there is too little interest at either end.

    But then I just revert back to making an evil character with 18 str, 12/13 dex, 14 con, 8 cha, 9/10 wis and 10 int, always human, always with some sort of anglo-norman name, and always armed with either a greataxe or greatsword. I'm just good at playing socially retarded minions with their biceps for sale, and a penchant for gold. Leaving that concept isn't too easy, and as I said above, I don't feel any point in bothering DMs if nothing is going to come of it anyway.

    This is also the reason I haven't been online recently.



  • It helps if your on IRC more if I'm honest, that way you can speak with the DMs and get advice right off.

    Let's say you know where the cutlass of cute cat girls is and younwant to recover it but you need a dm.

    You can ask the dms how it would be best to go about it in a way that makes it fun for others.

    You can also run your big ideas by them and get help into breaking them into small achievable pieces.



  • Try to find an enemy/rival for your character. If you don't have an enemy, you probably aren't having as much fun as you could be.

    This doesn't mean that you need to challenge him to a duel to the death, or assassinate him. It means you have a real, live PC to work against, by any means you find comfortable. Even if it's as simple as stealing his group members for your own group.

    Adventure is great, plots are great, DM quests are great. But ultimately, they are all situational. Short-term for the most part, compared your character's lifespan. The only way to be constantly energized (at least in my experience) is to have something to do, something your character always can be doing IG with or without a DM. This is the "role" in roleplay.

    I'm not suggesting you find conflict for the sake of it. But frankly, in as diverse a playerbase as CoA's, if you stand up for something- REALLY stand up for something (it could be anything. Law, chaos, lipstick color) you'll get people opposing you.

    A lot of people misunderstand what we mean by "involving" people. It doesn't just mean take some random dudes with you on a DM quest, or to the underdark and then forget about them. It's about having other people /react/ to you, even as you react to their PCs. This makes for a self-sustaining cycle. If you have people working to stop you, you're involving them. If you then involve people to stop him from stopping you, you're again involving more people. The other guy, in turn, is involving you because you're reacting to his actions, and he's reacting to yours.

    There's nothing wrong with being reactive. If everyone was proactive without being reactive, there'd be no one to involve! The trick is to be reactive to other people, while also being proactive by making them reactive to you.

    This is what gets DMs excited as well. This is also the kind of stuff you can do without any DM.

    This is just one example. The root of it all is pretty simple, but can be hard; Try to find something you really, really enjoy. Something abstract, like a principle, a God's dogma, a philosophy and stick with it.

    If a mellow, happy-go-lucky adventurer who's okay with anything and everything and is neutral about everything isn't working out, try playing a dogmatic or extremist character instead. Try playing something you never ever thought you'd play. The "new" spark always helped me get interested when I got burned out on concepts.



  • I used to feel this way, and watch other players do so much and generally feel frustrated. What changed it all for me was an idea borne out of that frustration: Forget the DMs. I'll do something awesome without them and they'll be forced to take notice. It almost worked, right up until I realised that for at least a few DMs, this was exactly what they wanted.

    So, the one thing I cannot suggest, underline, highlight and engrave deep enough into anyone who has ever asked me for advice on "achieving something in CoA", it's Do It Yourself.

    Give yourself a direction and then keep breaking down your goals until you've got something that you can do without ANYONE but whoever happens to be on the server at the time, and is certainly not reliant on a DM to go ahead. Something like:

    Cleric of Bane

    Options

    Need DM

    Doesn't need DM

    You should not rely on DMs, or even on other players unless you know them very well to play at the same times as you and share your interest. Whatever you do, there should only be one person stopping you from moving forwards: you. If that's not the case then you either need to re-asses your strategy or be prepared for some frustration as you try and cater to everyone who you need to be actively involved before it can go ahead.

    If you build it, they will come.



  • @Polaris:

    A lot of people misunderstand what we mean by "involving" people. It doesn't just mean take some random dudes with you on a DM quest, or to the underdark and then forget about them. It's about having other people /react/ to you, even as you react to their PCs. This makes for a self-sustaining cycle. If you have people working to stop you, you're involving them. If you then involve people to stop him from stopping you, you're again involving more people. The other guy, in turn, is involving you because you're reacting to his actions, and he's reacting to yours.

    One hundred times this.



  • Listen to lizard-man, this is the wisdom of the Gods.

    Also, I'll be deleting any off-topic posts trolling this thread. This thread is going to lead to some good points that every player will benefit from.



  • I apologize for ditching Jhlessia and the plot you involved her in. My new character would be willing to help you in it, though, if you approached her ICly about it.

    Getting things done is about setting times to do them. We had a plan for our plot, but I never could get a time where everyone we wanted to have was ready. Let's just time it better this time.

    Also, we can be the non-PvP team! I hate PvP also…I -always- get owned. Except once when I was getting owned and my team came to my rescue with IGMS...but that was on another server. Anyway...I don't like it either, its not necessary to PvP to have conflict, right?



  • That's a good question, can you accomplish goals while avoiding PvP? People will point out Kreswell but he too engaged in PvP when the circumstances needed him to.

    Another thing, I would think the Sheriffs are the most PvP oriented dm faction in the server.



  • You really can't avoid PvP if you are serious about your goals. Unless your goal is to wipe out NPC monsters, so who is really going to oppose you killing trolls or driders?



  • @Polaris:

    Listen to lizard-man, this is the wisdom of the Gods.

    I second this. The idea that lizard-man brought forth, this Do it Yourself mentality, is exactly what makes the server fun and interesting for others.

    Adopting this attitude a ways back has helped me develop into a more influential player on the server (albeit nowhere near to the extent of such big names as golw and lavishfeast), but I definitely feel like I'm making a much larger impact these days. My most recent foray with a group of 12 PCs who came just because I said it would be fun is a testament to this.

    Disregard DM reliance, acquire massive power.



  • Exactly what is so frightening about PvP?

    1. If the guy full loots you after 1 interaction, you can legitimately complain.

    2. If the guy kills you after 1 interaction, you can legitimately complain.

    The only time FD is even acceptable is if the conflict has risen to such heights that FD is the sole option that makes any sense.

    So what exactly is it? You're not good at it? No one is to begin with. You don't get better unless you actually do it.

    Guys, conflict is what's kept CoA alive for 10 years. It's because it's the only sustainable model. If PCs are always opposing NPCs, then it will always, always need DMs. We cannot provide character-specific NPC enemies to each and every player. Nor can we always be available to every player all the time.

    DM-led adventures are dependent on of course, a DM. Static and scripted stuff get old because they are predictable. Only stuff involving other players can be sustained indefinitely, and still be interesting. Befriend some, oppose some.

    Basically:-

    1. DMs make things unpredictable. DMs are fun.

    2. Players also make things unpredictable. Players are fun.

    You can guess which of the above you'll be seeing more. Try not to rely on DMs for your fun, because that is the quickest road to frustration. We're hard at work to give our time to the playerbase, it's inevitable that we can't be there for everyone all the time.

    I'm not suggesting you go out and start making up flimsy excuses for PvP, but seriously, some of these myths need to go.

    PvP =/= FD.
    PvP =/= even physically fighting.

    PvP/Conflict = opposing another PC character instead of an NPC villian that needs a DM. This may or may not even involve combat. A verbal debate between a priest of Trom and Bale is also conflict. They obviously can't fight physically due to the laws; But they are trying to sway the flock to their side. This is also PvP.

    That's all it is. Not so scary, is it?



  • @Khamal:

    You really can't avoid PvP if you are serious about your goals. Unless your goal is to wipe out NPC monsters, so who is really going to oppose you killing trolls or driders?

    The only real problem with this is that Player versus Monster is much more harsh than Player versus Player. PvM implies a major plot and/or epic-like creature, in which the DMs will try, and succeed in killing (likely permanently) many players. PvP typically only results in FD for the villains, because they're usually on subdual, while the good guys will drag them back to their NPCs, who will execute them. Since you play good guys, PvP should be easier for you, but it isn't for everyone and I get that.

    Setting goals, like lizard-man suggests helps, but it doesn't need to be done out of the gate. Goals should develop along with your PC. However, don't make a PC with goals if you can't accept failure.



  • The problem alot of people have with PvP currently is alot of people are skipping to FD now and ignoring everything in between



  • @Zyla:

    The problem alot of people have with PvP currently is alot of people are skipping to FD now and ignoring everything in between

    I've noticed.



  • @Deadlock:

    If people start FDing others without [some form of story], there'll some bans, and the problem will be solved. FD kills should be the result of a long running story or conflict.

    Document any examples and PM them to the DMs. This is quite easy to halt.



  • Beat in safe environment (guildhall duel)
    Taunt in public (dont use sendings too much…bleh...)
    Take down in non NPC populated area, threaten.
    Take down in non NPC populated area, take some gold, Threaten.
    Take down in non NPC populated area, take something of importance to character. Blackmail, force to do something for you.
    Take down an ally, capture, ransom.
    Take down in NPC populated area WITH DM, threaten, take item (blood for ritual? mark of being in certain gang so they now cant get perk etc?)

    Plant spies into their organisation.
    Find out their goals, get there first, thwart their plans using some means.
    Hire mercanaries to beat up their allies.
    Annex an area the faction wishes to enter on regular basis for plot X. Hire mercenaries to protect area from them, and oust them.
    Find out who supplies them with magic goods, use intimidation (legal, illegal?) to stop them gaining this service anymore.
    Turn another faction against them (with information from spies? with lies?)

    Big fat fight, FD.

    If you havent done at least three of those things above before the FD, your probably not telling a great story, or involving many people.



  • I would like to let you know your character brought a lot to this game. Not sure if anyone is going to say it but at least for my character. She was new and looked up to your character. I'm not sure if it is a mind set but why not have your character work toward her ultimate goal? My character and I know a few others have waited for your return.

    If it gives you any motivation just know that your character has influence on others. I hope you find a reason to play your character and hopefully have fun again. If you want to work out a story with me or something let me know. Good luck and hope to see you soon!



  • My main reason for avoiding PvP is, every time I PvP'ed in the past, I was pwned. Being pwned wasn't the bad part, though. I wasn't even FD'ed. However, although I was not FD'ed, I was stuck having to play out these gruesome torture scenes. My character would either be beaten to a pulp or would have limbs chopped off or whatever. I feel like a lot of players have a boner for blood and guts, and I don't. I don't want to play out those scenes anymore, so I avoid PvP. I also don't want to have my character killed, nor do I want to kill someone else's character, so I avoid PvP.

    I would welcome PvP that was more like friendly rivalry - something that ends with fists shaking and "I'll get you next time, Gadget!" - but I feel like a lot of players are looking for something more extreme than that, so I avoid it.

    This has nothing to do with the original post, but since PvP was brought up…


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