Ranger Saves

  • Rangers are currently only receiving Fortitude saves. I suggest adding Reflex saves, since Fi/Ro is superior.

  • Fighter/rogue will still be superior with proposed changes. But yeah, ranger is definitely outpaced by every other martial class.

  • Storyteller [DM]

    It's way more flexible than any other martial class, capable of stealthing, using divine wands, etc...

    It's fine.

  • Yeah, if the summon companion mechanic still works, this class is really good, if Ranger is weaker, just make more and better pets available in my opinion

  • @JoeKickAss Yeah, but 2H Fi is going to be stronger due to Wep Spec. 2H ranger right now requires leathers, not medium armor.

  • Admin [DM]

    Are Rangers now with d8, 6 skillpoints and the bonuses to make tumble a class skill?

  • @CrystalRL I thought the general view was that the dual wield Ranger meta was quite strong ((double-handed sword, axe, or mace)) - you would be taking a fair number of Ranger levels. I also thought this build was rather strong. You would very much struggle to make that with fighter and rogue levels.

    You could do a fighter version. At this level range, you'd be primarily using the bonus feats for two handed weapon skills. So for weapon spec, you'd lose tumble, a companion, and all these other skills Ranger have (tracking, hide/MS, traps, etc)). I don't think a two handed weapon build is really possible with fighter-rogue (I suppose it probably is actually possible when I think about it - and you would be using all your feats on weapon spec and two weapon fighting).

  • @JoeKickAss A Fi/Ro would get tumble as well as UMD (though would need to counter DEX armor penalty with item bonuses), plus better flanking damage, all for the loss of 1-2 BAB and a few HP per level. They would also be able to wear full plate, and thus put less investment into DEX (Ra dual wield requires light armor) - meaning they could put those points into CON, correcting the lower HP. Fighters get 3 bonus feats in the first 4 levels, while Rogues get Evasion from the first 3.

  • Storyteller [DM]

    Rangers are a full BAB stealth class with animal companion capability. They can disarm and set traps. They have tumble that benefits their AC incredibly (+1 ac at 2, +2 at 7) and can use divine wands. They were given more skill points as well to make up for the fact they have more skills now.

    If you want reflex, take lightning reflexes or multi-class into rogue.

  • @CrystalRL said in Ranger Saves:

    Fighters get 3 bonus feats in the first 4 levels, while Rogues get Evasion from the first 3.

    We are talking about a strength based fighter. The fighter feats would be something like ambi, two weapon fighting, weapon prof, and maybe weapon spec. They would also need exotic weapon if strength based. So that would give 5 feats you are using.

    Ranger gets two Favoured Enemy and all two weapon fighting feats for free. Provided you are evil, or non-human, you would normally take human as an FE (giving you a +2 AB and damage - you might then take dwarf if an elf or elf if a dwarf). The main advantage is UMD and stealth attack, but it is used for two handed weapons. Two weapon fighters are probably still better going rangers. Damage output/round will be surprisingly close, particularly if you reach 9, and get improved two weapon fighting, where you can get something like four or five attacks per round, which is incredible if you are using a double axe or double sword.

    You don't even need that much CHA for a decent companion.

    You might argue that rangers should have their HP in line with fighters, this used to be the case before the higher level cap in v5.

  • @SpiffyMeister said in Ranger Saves:

    It's way more flexible than any other martial class, capable of stealthing, using divine wands, etc...

    It's fine.

    It is fine. Utility in it's own way is very strong.

    I should rephrase my original point. Ranger is outpaced by every other martial class in straight up melee. That isn't typically why you play a ranger though, and if you do the ambidex build is a deadly flanker.

    But the divine wands is kind of moot when every healing wand available is usable by any and there isn't wand crafting in game (yet?)

  • Divine wands were useful in v5 since they had some shops, no one crafts divine wands though.

    Just switch the HP back to d10, which will give pureclass rangers much more HP than any fighter/rogue.

  • Admin [DM]

    @JoeKickAss said in Ranger Saves:

    no one crafts divine wands though.

    Crafting is to be implemented, just takes time to make.

  • Admin [DM]

    In regards of rangers, they are fine. We're making more animals available for taming as well, such as Bisons and Buffalos which were added just a few days ago.

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