Change the HP for Fighters/Rangers from 7 to 8?

I understand that this is before kits, and what have you - but the HP base for fighters seem way too low for a pure martial class. The base for the d8 classes, like cleric and druid is 6, where d10 classes like fighter or ranger is only 7.

That's sort of rough, given the fact a lot of those classes are meant to be frontline, getting crit and lacking all the extra goodies of the casting classes, obviously this is early balance, and I don't know if the balance is to make crits 'scary' but I find it frustrating and kind of just disheartening when there was nothing I could do about the death I got other than suck it up and just go questing again. An extra point of hp per level to emphasises they're martials? AC is king more than ever, and its kind of rough for the barbs and 2h of the world ^^'

Dire Rabbit

Going to echo this. A little bit of a tweak to make up for the plethora of powers that casters get to offset that lower HP would be great for fighters until kits come into it.

Voss_

If you do max HP then do it for all classes. But it's been said before by DMs that the system is being tested out.

Not asking for max. Literally one point extra, 8 instead of current 7.

Prof. Misclick

Let me check something and get back to you on this.

Gumba

Makes a whole lot of difference one extra point of HP to certain classes, don't do it. Right now investing in CON and toughness is valuable.

I'd say the changes of HP should be to the following:

First level full dices. Second levels and above the following:
Barbarian: 7 HP/Level.
Fighter, Paladin and Ranger: 6 HP/level.
Bard, Cleric, Druid, Monk, Rogue: 5 HP/level.
Sorcerer and Wizard: 4 HP/level.

CON modifier added in all cases. Any increase of Hitpoints messes with mechanics. This is known and has been adjusted by game masters before in the 5th edition for this reason.

@Gumba said in Max HP for Fighters/Rangers (1d10s):

Right now investing in CON and toughness is valuable.

I have 14 constitution, on a fighter - and I have the same hitpoint max as a cleric of the same level, same con, but with toughness. Toughness isn't 'valuable' its invaluable, you HAVE to take it, and thats kinda not fun?

One hitpoint extra, given the weakness of normal martial classes compared to others right now isn't a fix but its at least something to those wanting to actually play something that isn't another fighter/cleric, to grab magic vestment, shield of faith and stack AC so it doesn't matter. It makes frontlining even more dangerous and unrewarding when people at the backline can still just be invisible, because they're not the ones who are going to get crit for 40 after a hit from another creature and Fugue'd.

Chips

@Vagabond3103 said in Max HP for Fighters/Rangers (1d10s):

The golden rule of tanking hp vs flanking hp that I've followed (and most people I know of follow).

Flanking hp = Enough hp to take one crit, and then another regular hit afterwards (that you'd take from the aoo caused by drinking a potion) This is because a flanker shouldn't be holding aggro for more than 1 or 2 enemies at a time on average.
Tanking hp = Enough hp to take a crit and two hits, because if you're tanking, you've got more than one person aggro'd on your ass, so more than one person is likely to get an attack of opportunity on you when you're drinking healing potions to recover from that crit damage. The fabled doublecrit is also four regular hits worth of damage on average, so if you can take four hits worth of damage in a round and survive you're pretty well set to be tanking fulltime.

If the average damage per hit from endgame mobs is 20. You need about 60 to 80 hp at level 10 to be a flanker, and 80-100 hp to be a tank.

A flanking fighter with 10 constitution and toughness will have 8 hp per level, and therefore 64 hp at level 8 and 80 hp at level 10 (enough to meet the flanking hp requirement for endgame mobs by the time you reach the level to do endgame content)
A tanking fighter with 14 constitution and toughness will have 10 hp per level, and therefore 80 hp at level 8 and 100 at level 10 (enough hp to meet the tanking hp requirement for endgame mobs by the time you reach the level to do endgame content)

So in short, without any buffs, fighters will typically have enough hp to take on the kind of threats they aught to be taking on at their respective levels, with their respective builds. If they want easy/safe mode, they can spend a bit extra gold and use expensive potions for easymode stats.

Max hp isn't needed unless your goal is to have enough hp that you can tab out and put on youtube videos, then tab back in and still be fine even after shit crit you a few times. (Can confirm, did that a few times on my tank pc's with max hp implemented)

Also keep in mind, fighters aren't exclusively a tank class. Feeling that taking tanking feats (like toughness) is mandatory in order to tank is normal (And it's not that big an issue on a class that gets three times more feats than any other class either). Bards need to invest a third of their skillpoints if they want to be stealthy, wizards need to invest half their feats if they want to be good at casting a specific school of spell.

You shouldn't be able to build a fighter for flanking and then expect to be tanking the entire room by yourself every time. If you've got 2-3 flankers in a party, they should each try to hold a bit of aggro, not just leaving one person to hold it all.

Puffy

I'm less interested in introducing max HP (part or full), and more interested in ensuring our spawns are balanced enough to be a challenge but not a party wipe effect. :) Also, Apple's arguement is very sound, we survived a very long time without max HP and things were a lot more exciting then!

I'm not asking for MAX hp, AGAIN. Just one point extra, because I feel like the difference between fighter/ranger and d8 classes is far too little. Currently, most clerics do everything a fighter does, and better, AND only lose the one hitpoint base for their trouble. That's the imbalance, ontop of which, Fighters don't get the AC these clerics can pump out with Shield of Faith and Vestment, and fall prey to the mobs that swing for over +10 AB.

I'm not saying I want to tank everything all by myself as a 2h fighter, I'm saying that right now I'm made of wet paper, and I need buffs to be able to survive encounters, endurance needs to be on, bark and shield and I need to be stacking AC because if I get crit, I'm most likely going to die without anything I can seriously do about it. While that might be 'a part of the game' it isn't fun.

I just want their BASE HP to go from the d7 it is EVERY LEVEL to a d8, to emphasis that they are a martial class, and are meant to be at the front, and to give them some perks extra compared to their preachy/fighty counterparts.

Puffy

I have moved this discussion to the balance team to take a look at, thanks for clarifying Vagabond :)

Prof. Misclick

Locking this for now. We’ll get back to you if/when changes are warranted.

Prof. Misclick

Next reset Fighters and Paladins should be at 8hp per level. 75% rounded up.

Happy Gaming.

Prof. Misclick

@Puffy said in Change the HP for Fighters/Rangers from 7 to 8?:

I'm less interested in introducing max HP (part or full), and more interested in ensuring our spawns are balanced enough to be a challenge but not a party wipe effect. :) Also, Apple's arguement is very sound, we survived a very long time without max HP and things were a lot more exciting then!

And this is a work in progress so thanks in advance for your patience.