The 2018 roleplaying your "stats" discussion
All I could find in terms on "RPing your stats" from the dm team was this link:
But, since I am a dumb ass who gimps himself (unwillingly) whenever possible, I am hoping this discussion can serve as a "How to" in terms of roleplaying your stats, and help me and others concept our "builds" properly.
My questions to the community will then be:
- What kind of stats / social skills do we expect from a leader type figure?
- What is the real difference between having 8, 10, 12, 14 16+ charisma, in terms of RPing in social situations?
- How do wisdom & intelligence to a greater degree, and the three combat oriented stats to a lesser degree, influence the "Take charge on quests / being in front in social aspects on dm quests" parts of the game?
- How should we as a community handle those who have the stats / those who lack them?
I ask, because we often state that "mechanics are part of the game." But does that mean, from our community stand point, that we would rather have quest and faction leaders who excel in combat, and that whether the faction leader has 8 or 16 charisma means little?
Mortui last edited by
Personally if I dont have at least 14 cha I try to shy away from leadership positions. That's not to say these characters can't lead in the middle of combat, more of just an aversion to structured leadership.
I generally roleplay low wisdom as being very unaware of how the world works or having little initiative, making for good subservient minions or being blindly trusting.
SmilingDog last edited by SmilingDog
I go in for 12 charisma minimum if I am going to be making my PC to be a leader.
Low Int and Low Wis aren't important for a leader, they can just make really bad decisions portraying that stat but its important if you have 8 int or 8 wisdom (or less) that you really make a big mistake every once in a while.
If I have no Lore, I act like I dont know what things are unless I have seen them in the flesh and people have explained them to me. Bernard still thinks grey renders are demons from hell for example, no one cleared that up. RPing skills is also important.
solarfall last edited by solarfall
Yeah, 12 CHA at least for a leader and have any of the “social stats” (INT and WIS) in double figures.
I wholeheartedly agree dog regarding the skills. For instance, I often ponder (but cannot know) just how high spellcraft and lore everyone has, in regards to knowing the precise names and effects of magic, as it is rare that I see people pondering or or being mystified by the magic thrown around.
The reason I asked all of this, was also to see if the coa community are less interested in the stats, and more in the mechanical prowess of individuals. As in, are we good enough to offer respect to the militia sergeant or Kantheas apprentice, unless we know OOCly they can kick our ass from here to sunday?
A good thing to remember is that the general Baseline average for a stat in a "Normal person" in the realms is 10.
a 16+ charisma is cult leader levels of force of personality compared to a normal person. I'd say a 12 Minimum would be needed for people to actually take you seriously when your trying to take charge and a 14 would be where people start deferring to you.
As for Wisdom and Intelligence. I always see it as Reason and Logic at it's core. Your high Int character would likely be able to come up with a great plan for beating whatever quest or situation you're dealing with, But if they have a low wisdom then when that plan inevitably falls apart they'd suck at thinking on the fly and improvising. They'd generally just go with whoever seems to know what they're doing.
Conversely, your High wisdom character would be intuitive and cunning, figuring things out on the fly. They'd be the one to realize that the canyon you're about to go through would be the perfect place for your enemies to ambush you. However, while they'd know going through was a bad idea, they'd likely lack the forethought and Planning skills to figure out a way to prevent that danger, instead having to figure out some way to circumvent it.
In short, High Int helps you figure out the right way, High Wis makes you aware of the wrong ways.
As for the Combat stats, it's much more what you see is what you get. If Both the Big strong fighter and the scrawny little rogue both have a plan to slaughter some orcs but both have 10 charisma, you're going to go with whichever you respect more personally. Want it loud and bloody, strong guy. Want it quick and quiet, sneaky guy.
Not sure where to start with 4 though. No real way to Know who has the stats and who doesn't without them rolling it, and we can't force players to adhere to rolls really.
In regards to 4, To me it has always been "leap of faith". I expect those who ALWAYS take charge at the beginning of a quest, who are always pushing others away to be infront of the NPC, always demands first pick for loot etc, to have the skills and stats to back it up, and that the dms will sort it out if not.
However, I also see a high focus on optimizing, making the best possible build, "dont shoot yourself in the foot" etc when it comes to creating PCs. So, I figured it was good to discuss it openly, of whether people just dont care for the charisma of their counter parts, as long as they can contribute mechanically on quests etc.
I agree, Seeing as how Socials are only usable really in a few quest dialogs and DM events, Anyone Prioritizing them With things like skill focuses becomes seen as far less useful. If you've only got one spot left on your quest, who are you going to take? The rogue with 58 billion bluff but 14 dex, or the 26 strength unbuffed Barbarian.
If I'm honest I almost never roleplay my stats properly - even when I'm trying to, though I pretty much always go 10 cha or above because I personally enjoy most of my characters having some form of social skills.
I mostly try to emphasize character flaws and strengths to a point that I feel makes it so they aren't some sort of Mary Sue and call it a day.
From what i've gathered, RPing your stats is important to a degree but not necessarily heavily enforced. What I mean by that is that usually, skill rolls or ability checks are not enforced between players and is between said players if they want to use it. Generally a good rule of thumb is to not let your fun RP get bogged down with number limitations.
BUT! Good RP also encompasses weaknesses as well. DMs won't care most of the time from what i've seen, but if you attempt to RP something ridiculous, such as juggling chainsaws with an 8 DEX mod, don't be surprised if you suddenly get a forced emote of your character fumbling them and taking some damage.
Curious sidenote, has a DM ever force emoted for someone because they were under playing an attribute? o.O
My current character falls within the lower end range of the ‘leadership’ range, and I try to play that up; she’s not comfortable leading anything more than a small team despite being very intelligent (15) and wise (16). Life has taught her that it’s simply not one of her strengths- probably when she got someone killed or something.
None the less, she’s very loyal and will go out of her way to ensure people come home alive (relating to her reluctance, she takes responsibility for teams she’s in) and consequently draws people into her orbit. She also puts on the charm and professionalism when it’s called for and works well in a variety of social situations.
This is how I roleplay her 12-13 charisma.
Perfectly capable, just not confident enough in her ability that she’ll make a good leader.
The other stuff, her strength is a byproduct of a martial lifestyle, her constitution is the result of her screwing around with alchemy so much, dexterity just taken from her human parent more than her elven one and the mental attributes probably a good mix of both since she’s a sun-elf halfbreed.
I think I do okay, all told, and I’ve had people tell me they feel my roleplay represents what’s on the sheet (without them knowing what was on it).
This conversation happens every few months.
Build for what you want to do and have fun doing it.
Spiffy, could you elaborate a bit on it?
I mean, if the DM Team does not really care about whether someone has 12 or 14 charisma, I think that is fine. And if the mechanical aspect is more important than "making sure the build fits the concept", it would honestly be nice to know from a player perspective.
If it does not matter whether you have 5 or 10 bluff for your Cyric cleric pretending to be Ilmatery, and if being able to take the front and surviving matters more to a "proper leader" than having 14 charisma and skill focus persuade, knowing it will mean alot to how people concept in the future (at least it will for me).
@joekickass An orcish leader is one who is strong AND more charismatic than your average orc.
a 6 cha orc should have no force of personality, He'd be respected, but he'd have a hard time acctually getting anyone to LISTEN to him unless he beat them down first.
What matters is the investment made. Some people are gonna be able to get 25 intimidate even on a fighter. Some people can barely reach 20 intimidate on a barbarian.
When I look at attribute/skills, I look at investment. Did they cross-class? Did they take a feat skill focus intimidate? Does their roleplay reflect it?
I mean, someone who has 30 persuade but says "You should walk onto that trap instead of me." and fails to provide any context to their persuade check probably won't be as well received as someone with 7 cross-classed persuade on a barbarian going, "You should walk on that trap instead of me, it's only a minor spike trap but that is fewer healing potions I need to use for the boss." Will probably convince the NPC to do it because they used a valid argument.
Really though, if you put in the investment, DMs tend to respond...if you put in the roleplay investment as well.
SmilingDog last edited by SmilingDog
Most chaotic concepts really follow the strongest, CG not so much but for CE and CN, you don't respect authority you respect strength. Whether that be strength of personality, strength of arms, connections, wealth whatever.
I tend to not care about being the guy in front of the NPC myself unless I am running the show, as long as I get my cut I don't care; I guess I have years of not being important on EFU that has lead me to having this mentality.
As Spiffy so eloquently put, build for what you want to play don't play just for what you want to build as one is much more entertaining for all.
Bowser last edited by Bowser
Anything above 14 in a stat that your class does not exclusively make use of it is unnecessary. If you are a leader type and not a sorc, any points in over 14 cha are basically wasted. I'm not going to look at you and see 16 cha on your fighter or 14 cha and see ANY difference in the way you should be roleplaying these things, really.. They're already exceptionally high and at that point you become the fun police.
Racials have exceptions too. For example, most dwarves don't even have 10 CHA, so 8 is oft the standard for them.
As far as skills go, they can be limited based on class. When I see something like a skill focus, even if your skill is only at 10, I will be far more likely to let you use said skill appropriately.
Ultimately, you can fill out your character sheet however you like as long as you are ROLEPLAYING these stats appropriately. But putting 16 CHA over 14 or even 12 on that leader PC is going to do nothing extra for you from our perspective.
I can't see other character's sheets. And its a whole lot of personal interpretation. For me, its not just stats or skills. If you're a cleric with 1 level of ranger, you're no Bear Grylls. If you're a fighter/rogue, you're not a real soldier. But that's just me. I saw in this thread people say charisma above 14 makes no difference, to me it does. If you're a fighter with 18 charisma, you're Napoleon. If you're a fighter with 12 charisma, you're Animal Mother in Full Metal Jacket, or maybe that big guy only had 10?
It's hard to say. But yes, a guy rolled a high appraise check one day and I allowed him to essentially scam one of my low wisdom character. And I tend to play each and everyone of my characters with weakness. I'd like to see more people do it, its enjoyable to me.
But its hard to enforce, and yes, some classes are directly thrown in certain direction. I'd like to play an ugly as fuck, nerdy sorcerers, but you know how it is. I want to play a super wise rogue, or a super intelligent barbarian... You know, this edition simply suck.
I feel like most of this stuff is what you feel comfortable with as a player, and should be limited to how you feel about the game. I think players shouldn't be worried about other peoples stats at all, because it only leads to needless aggravation. If the dms see some one acting charismatic with an 8 charisma we probably will talk to that player, but the difference between 12/14/16 charisma is so low priority it doesn't really matter.
What is important is having fun while playing the game. Gimping yourself to the point that you have a 14-16 charisma on a build that has no use for said charisma save to say how leet your rp is seems silly to me, but if it makes the game better for you that's great. Where the problem comes in is when you start to think that the 10 charisma character that has a bunch of people following him kicks your ass because of a better build is somehow a worse player then you. It's simply not true.