DM censoring on the forums



  • From what I understand this forum is an open and democratic place that allows people to air their opinions and critizisms freely. Although I am not able to read deleted posts, I have had a chance to see some of them beforehand and found that some were critical but not insulting or negative. Thus, I must ask.. is it the policy of the DM team to delete any comments that complain even if they are not negative or demeaning?

    I will post a poll as well to see what others think



  • When those comments are made to purposefully bring down motivation and spread untrue rumors about the server; yes. We will remove them. We're also always going to be honest and up front about that.

    Not sure what you're trying to do here--right now--I'm trying to trust that you are being positive and trying to start a healthy conversation. However, we have some folks actively causing trouble and, for the health of the community, we've chosen to do two things.

    1). Not explain openly exactly what was done because its not our desire to shame or humiliate people publicly.
    2). Not allow people who we are trying to allow leave the community gracefully spread rumors, negativity, or bring things down for everyone else.

    At the end of the day, Arabel is kind of our house. We all live here, we all have fun here, its a good place. But if you start screaming at the top of your lungs and making a mess, yes, the DM team here is the group of people who have to ultimately make tough decisions about when you are being disruptive and, even unfortunately, when you are no longer welcome.

    Ultimately, I'd hope they all calm down and realize they're still welcome playing here right now, but if they become toxic that would have to change so they can't interfere with other people who come here to enjoy themselves.

    We have never tried to hide decisions, but we've always tried not to shame and embarrass people. If people want to talk privately and ask questions, we'll answer them honestly though.



  • @mr-moloch that has pretty much answered my concerns, perhaps you could make an announcement so that everyone knows. I did not make this post to be negative, but to simply inquire as to what was going on



  • I know from experience, unfortunately, my own experience.... that when you're raging and being a dick, in VAST majority of cases ( least in the last 8+ years!) there's a -lot- more than one side to the history and your mistreatment may not be as one sided as you present it and the DM team could usually humiliate you with logs, but choose not to. I'd like it to stay that way, makes it easier to calm down, grow up and return later. This was my case, not sure if i'd returned at the time due to embarassment if i had been exposed as the raging dick i was for a time in my early days here >.>

    Better to delete than start the shitstorm



  • I've been a moderator. When people are angry, it's often better to just remove the questionable posts.



  • No worries, I'm glad to hear that Ethika. I was pretty sure we'd already made it clear a long time ago what the policy was for using the forums--and that if people ever have any questions at all--they can always ask the DM team. I'm happy to discuss anything at all with anyone.

    One of the worst days for me on CoA as a DM happened about 8 or 9 years ago probably when a guy I really loved playing with heard a stupid rumor he was blacklisted from ever being a DM. It led to all kinds of hurt feelings, and eventually even the banning of several players I had a ton of fun with on CoA - but never would have happened at all if they'd just talked to us first and found out the rumor wasn't true.

    Upset, angry people, they tell lies-they tell "the truth" as they see it, but its often one-sided and born out of a bad situation. Often, a week or a few weeks later, hopefully, they calm down enough to hear other points of view and people and move on and let bygones by bygones.



  • I DMed for years on a very large server and yes, sometimes there's no choice but to remove some of it.

    With this forum though it leaves a trace, it says 'Post removed'. It should simply be removed, as it raises less questions imho. But that's my personal preferance.



  • I've voiced my thoughts on this to the team before. I think if people are going to be asshats, let them be judged as such - and work at regaining trust. Just my bitter ol' man thoughts however.



  • @terris I know, I probably agree with you personally. I'd just post up all the complaints and rules violations and reasons for bans and make them publicly known. The western world's entire justice system works on an open system like that.

    Some people though want to avoid shaming people who, in my opinion, probably should have some shame. But for now, we're being all gentlemanly about it and letting folks leave gracefully if they want to go, calm down if they can, and leaving the door open if they want to come back or not.



  • @mind-over-body said in DM censoring on the forums:

    I DMed for years on a very large server and yes, sometimes there's no choice but to remove some of it.

    With this forum though it leaves a trace, it says 'Post removed'. It should simply be removed, as it raises less questions imho. But that's my personal preferance.

    That's how it used to be (our old forums did not support soft deletes) - I prefer this one, because people know something was removed; As Moloch says, it's not our intention to pretend that something never happened, but to address it and move on.



  • You can remove the message entirely by hitting "Purge posts" via the tools at the bottom of the screen (near "Mark unread" etc.)

    i.e. always have to first delete, then purge, a bit like emails.



  • We know. 😉 We just don't do it for the reasons stated above.



  • Yes, we don't want to hide things or sweep them under the rug. We prefer to let silliness blow over without making a huge deal about it. We will address things though if people ask honestly.



  • But lets really be honest here, the comments that you have been deleting guys are painting the server in a bad light and are in fact not being made to come across as toxic or hostile but more to the fact they are being done because of the way the DM's have conducted themselves and how you went about a stealth attack and deleted a former DM in the dead of the night when he was sleeping. He should have been given a chance to post a response to the announcement you have made especially if it refrained from personal attacks.



  • Maybe Tink. I'd like to think he'd give it a few days. Since the claims and his perceptions are very clearly influenced by how hard the whole situation was for him. However, as the story spreads and more and more people are spreading rumors and very strange tales that grow in the telling, its pretty clear his story is getting out and causing trouble and more hard feelings. Even claims of a "stealth attack" are a bit biased, as there have been several efforts to handle the situation before it came to what happened, stretching back to before you chose to leave the team as well. So while I understand how hard it must have been, the idea it came out of no where that 8 different individuals around the world simultaneously and for no reason 'attacked' someone is probably not an entirely accurate picture to paint--and with time and a little distance from immediacy be seen as part of a bigger picture.

    If, after calming down, someone wants to talk -have that talk privately or publicly if that's really his choice- then we could. But when things are riled up and people are frustrated, that's not the time to go posting. We need a time out, and then maybe, everyone can chat and have a relaxed talk so we can all feel like friends who had a spat or agree we all are moving on or whatever. And we as a team, are always going to be willing to talk about things with anyone who wants to talk, we just prefer to talk privately when we can.

    That said, what's happening here with angry posts, claims about how toxic things are--that's just not the case. Things are really positive, the DM team is at its best and most productive I've probably ever seen it in 15 years! So yes, I'm not keen on people making accusations or anything that makes the environment feel strained or unfriendly; and yes, that will occasionally mean deleting a post that isn't actually productive at this moment.



  • @joekickass said in DM censoring on the forums:

    I just think it is a bit odd a guy who has had no problems afaik and was volunteering to help run the server was suddenly kicked out and nothing said so far has really answered why that could not have been resolved through a private message or that it was handled very well, if I am being honest.

    I agree wholeheartedly. While I understand the "Oh if you want to talk about it - PM a member of the team" - that leads to telephone game style rumors, prevents people from defending themselves, and so on.



  • @terris Because we don't want a big public trial that leads to more conflict. People come here to play a game, not to watch Judge Judy. But there's nothing to hide, so if people really want to know, we'll talk it out. Bottom line, someone broke our trust. They say they didn't and were unfairly attacked. That's about it.



  • I should add, I don't see the point of the poll. Yes, the DMs here do censor things. The reasons are explained in my original response.

    shrug We feel its necessary for the health of the server, we don't hide it. We won't even hide why or what, but we do try to keep some things from going public unless someone tells us that they'd really prefer to have their entire situation made public for some reason.



  • Sorry, you guys are going about this the wrong way. This is in no way portrayed as an amicable parting of ways. This feels more like a very bad separation with many hurt feelings.

    Using words like "someone broke our trust" is fighting language, and then deleting any comments of their reply to this stinks like a regime.


  • Admin [DM]

    The dm team removes toxic, unproductive, and unhelpful commentary that can only serve to damage the community we maintain and hope to grow.

    We also remove porn.

    So I guess we do censor? I mean, if we didn't, Raticide would be all over the place with his gay collection of bear on bear stuff wolol.


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