Respawning PC's
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I have a question on respawning PC's. Moloch has told me before that this is a story telling server, not an action server. That is good, because I much prefer story telling. However, when I see PC's coming back from PvP death from weeks or even months ago, PC's that were killed to progress other player's stories and that other PC's died to kill, how is that at all fair? Does that mean said players whom died can have their PC's back? Or is this a one sided thing where if people cry enough to a DM about a legitimate IC death, the DM's will get annoyed enough to allow their PC to come back? I mean, from my perspective, there are tons of PC's who have been killed recently but have not respawned because they respect the order of PvP. So what if they want their PC's back? Do they get them? And then what happens to the IC actions when they were literally incinerated to ashes? I feel like the whole topic is very hazy and should really be clarified for all players, so we know how to treat a PvP death, especially one that -SHOULD- for IC reasons, be the end of said PC's story. Also, if players keep coming back this way OOCly, why can't I or anyone else have any of my/their old PC's back that were killed and or died in some way and were pushed into retirement as a result? Does anyone get their PC's back? If so, doesn't it defeat not only the purpose of PvP where people spend all their PC's resources to finally defeat an enemy and further their story, only to have said PC come back within a few weeks, alive and healthy?
I'm all for legitimate stories and I hate unfair or premature PvP, especially when players are FDed when it isn't warranted. To be honest, a lot of FD has gone on recently that wasn't really deserved vis a vis the PvP guidelines. That being said, why are characters returning from legitimate, character ending PvP?
I don't think I'm the only one that thinks this is lame, not only for the player's who's stories were furthered by this PvP and lengthy dispute with any particular PC, but more so even for the player's who died in the process and don't have their PC's still, due to these actions.
Just to clarify, I'm not talking about something like getting killed in PvP and having your body recovered and being raised. This post is about legitimate PvP deaths, being undone.
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It was always the case that unless the PvP conflict was escalated so much and drove important plots forward, to the point where DMs explicitly stated a certain event will be a permadeath one, people had the choice of respawning even after being killed in meaningful PvP. Of course most times players prefered not taking that route. I suppose there is always the case that while the winner of said PvP feels his enemy should stay dead, the loser feels his character has more to do and possibly other plots and goals that weren't related to being killed by the winner. Or maybe the losing player enjoyed his character so much he wasn't ready of letting go.
In either case I 'd at least expect leaving the winner alone and not involve against his plots, maybe even actively RPing fear him and his bussiness. Harder to do with the decreased (but steady none the less!) number of players the last few years.
Then there are creative ways like bringing the loser back as a cohort through some devilish ceremony to skip the above problems if losing player is into it, as an option to continue his character's story.
If the point of respawning is to get revenge and gang the winner it's kind of meh… It is discouraged... But I don't think it's forbidden.
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The two relevant points are
1. We play in a setting were death is very rarely final
2. We play on a server that has chosen not to enforce permadeath.Anything beyond this is subjective oppinion, and regardless of what we feel or think about people doing this, they're not doing anything wrong per se.
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Up to the individual, I guess. you have to wait four days in a PVP death to respawn.
Ive only had one Char die in PvP…Id not have considered respawning, and the little smart moutche dSOB might have deserved it. -
Respawning after pvp death is allowed, but if the death was 100% legit, had a great conflict leading up to it and a huge tone of finality that all parties agreed on and the victim respawns anyways, it's lame, allowed but lame.
The drawback to doing this is that it's somewhat of a social suicide amongst rpers, so I would assume few people ever do it.That being said, I much prefer the idea of a non perma pvp system that very rarely gets abused then the idea of a perma FD system that gets abused a lot.
It goes without saying that COA by far has more incidents of people being too quick to fd than it does have issues of people respawning after legitimate deaths, and being able to respawn after an fd is mostly a counter to the former issue.
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While we as dms always ask players to consider if death on a big dm event, or after a pvp conflict is a place to end their characters story, we are very hesitant to force any players to stay dead, if they feel their characters story is not done.
And from an IC point of view, one has to keep in mind that the forgotten realms is a high magic setting, where death is not always the end, especially for adventurers, and simply killing an enemy is no guarantee of ending the threat he poses.
That said, if there are specific situations where players feel that respawning is being abused, or otherwise questionable stuff is taking place, a dm can, and should be contacted to discuss it.
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PCs executed by the city with the Big Red Axe Susie used to be bound by scripts so they could not respawn. Outside of a DM ruling, this used to be the only way to "end" a PC.
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I personally feel its bad form to respawn after a legit PvP death or major DM event. End the character's story, be done with it, move on and allow the story to progress with the repercussions of your PC's death.
Mourn, cry, grieve, eat large quantities of chocolate, whatever you have to do. It's -over-! Roll new PC.
As Cheshire said above, its lame but allowed, and personally frustrates people…but what do you do? It's a game after all.
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I've had characters I really enjoy who I bring back after a PvP death and enjoy playing. I typically wait until the guys who killed me are gone/retired or whatever reason they had for killing me (plot related) is wrapped up. People get to play their character.
Who are YOU to say that just because you switched subdual modes and proved mechanically better in a single fight to determine they NEVER get to play their PC again?
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Well if that's the case Moloch, Anyone involved in said PvP who had to deal with the repercussions and having their own characters killed off should have them back. In that case, anyone should be able to bring any character back, really. It wasn't just about mechanics and it wasn't as simple as flicking to Full damage. I'm not going to try and argue with you, but I think if this is common law that any character that wishes to be restored from any particular PvP event as such, should be allowed to do so.
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I have never died in PVP before, but i hold a three strikes and your out rule with my chars, unless they are divine zealots or i REALLY like them. If i were to die in PVP, i would treat circumstantial, what is the benefits of my character dieing? Will their death rally their allies and cause them to unite to fight the evil/good that killed them? I see it as the more significant a character i have, the more significant their death will be. If Jarna were to die in PVP in the current plot, i would probably make it stick, as that would cause an amazing plot out of it itself, even though i REALLY don't want Jarna to die. I think each circumstance has to be judged separately, as no two deaths would be the same, and would have different repercussions.
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Well if that's the case Moloch, Anyone involved in said PvP who had to deal with the repercussions and having their own characters killed off should have them back. In that case, anyone should be able to bring any character back, really. It wasn't just about mechanics and it wasn't as simple as flicking to Full damage. I'm not going to try and argue with you, but I think if this is common law that any character that wishes to be restored from any particular PvP event as such, should be allowed to do so.
They are.
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I've had characters I really enjoy who I bring back after a PvP death and enjoy playing. I typically wait until the guys who killed me are gone/retired or whatever reason they had for killing me (plot related) is wrapped up. People get to play their character.
Who are YOU to say that just because you switched subdual modes and proved mechanically better in a single fight to determine they NEVER get to play their PC again?
^ This, however in my opninion if you got publicly murdered/executed/assasinated i.e. having your head removed your body burned ect and your PC is known to be dead, it'd be weird for you to come back.
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I've had characters I really enjoy who I bring back after a PvP death and enjoy playing. I typically wait until the guys who killed me are gone/retired or whatever reason they had for killing me (plot related) is wrapped up. People get to play their character.
Who are YOU to say that just because you switched subdual modes and proved mechanically better in a single fight to determine they NEVER get to play their PC again?
^ This, however in my opninion if you got publicly murdered/executed/assasinated i.e. having your head removed your body burned ect and your PC is known to be dead, it'd be weird for you to come back.
RAISE DEAD WORLD OF MAGIC….
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Finally, let me explain something because there is a lot of silly to all this complaining about how OTHER people choose to play their characters.
Point one: we have PvP rules.
viewtopic.php?t=110313Point two: we have policies about what we do to characters whose stories are 'done' be they high level, or people the DM team feels had a good ending at the end of an event.
viewtopic.php?p=893506Play your own characters, have your own fun. Let other people play their characters and have their own fun.
The DMs will reward people who create interesting stories and know when to let go, but welcome people to enjoy themselves here. I wish our players could be as welcoming and tolerant.
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Play your own characters, have your own fun. Let other people play their characters and have their own fun.
The DMs will reward people who create interesting stories and know when to let go, but welcome people to enjoy themselves here. I wish our players could be as welcoming and tolerant.
^ +2
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I've been thinking about this all day and it really annoys me. Three characters were ICly killed for the actions after a DM said that if they were not raised they could NOT respawn. Why should we be punished IG if these people just say "LOL NVM gonna respawn in a few weeks later". My character was executed for it and I was perfectly fine with it because the IC actions resulted in that response. Had I known that in a few weeks that was going to happen I wouldn't have done it.
If you do something like this you shouldn't be creating conflict with other people because TBH it isn't fair.
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gDarDog…
What part of "you can respawn" did you not get?
Seriously...I don't know what the situation you reference was--but here's the rule:
1). You can respawn from PvP.
2). You can get raised from PvP.
3). Permadeath only occurs when YOU the player choose it-or a DM works out with you in advance of a situation that permadeath will occur (ie we announce a plot/event is a permadeath event or we have arranged a retirement scene with you).If your PC is executed, you can not respawn for 2 weeks. You can be raised at any time, but will be executed again if caught within those two weeks.
That's the policy. What you're talking about makes no sense. No DM can say to you "you can't respawn" because that's not the rule here.
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gDarDog…
What part of "you can respawn" did you not get?
Seriously...I don't know what the situation you reference was--but here's the rule:
That's the policy. What you're talking about makes no sense. No DM can say to you "you can't respawn" because that's not the rule here.
Well then you have a lot of confusion going on with the DM team.
To sum things up:
Vicho(Falonthas) was on trial. Coster(Golw) and Deryk(King-Dobby) killed him.They were both killed. I took the body and stopped him from being raised and refused to give it up to the council so I was killed. The DM in charge of the event told everyone there that no one was allowed to respawn and they needed to be raised. 3 very active PCs were killed and retired as a result of this event and it is a slap in the face to each and every one of us. Speaking for myself I would have never committed IG suicide and I doubt Dobby or Golw would have either if they had known that this would happen. -
Right…no one seems confused there.
No one could respawn - FOR TWO WEEKS - because they'd been executed.
They all could have gotten raised.
However, I'll tell everyone the same thing:
We are not a permadeath server. You decide when your PC is done. No one else gets to except DMs (and only then in very specific cases).
If you only feel you accomplish something when your able to force another player to give up a character they don't want to give up, then you're here for the wrong reasons. If you're upset you didn't give up your character you were enjoying to stop someone else from continuing to play a character they enjoy; I worry you have too much of a 'win' and not enough of a 'story' mentality.
So relax. Let people play their character, you play your character. Its a game. We're suppose to have fun, not worry about who killed whom at whose wedding.