Quantity of playtime pwns Quality of RP
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We had a brief debate about this in IRC and I wanted to get the rest of the playerbases thoughts on the subject.
Some plots have the chance of greatly affecting the server, a prime example being the East Way plot. The DM's involved placed the required relics throughout the server in persistent locations so that they could be pursued without constant DM oversight enabling the players to have something fun to go and do. The problem I see with this is that the players that are online in the few days following the plot are usually the ones that "win" said plot because they were around at the right times and had the larger amount of play time required to scour the server for them. The more casual player, with less play time or who might have just not been around that week, is left behind and the plot is usually out of their control by the time they hop in game.
I wonder if these plots that have a greater potential to affect the server should be solved slower and give those players that have less time to play a chance to really become involved, rather than just as a tag along on one or two hunts for for the relics if they're lucky.
So maybe we shouldn't use the "place plot items in persistent locations" plot structure for these sorts of stories but save it for smaller arcs that are still very fun, but not uberly important to the server as a whole.
What do you think?
Bear in mind that this isn't a whine about my inabilty to change the server. I'm no longer a player that is actively trying to affect the server in large ways. My time for that has past and I have too many RL responsibities to have the desire to do so. I raise questions like this every so often with the goal of debating, thus gathering the communities feelings on a subject and hopefully helping us all to improve our server. I'm also not discrediting the players that have happened to won the East Way plot. I merely used it as an example.
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First of all, your title is a bit misleading. But I understand what you mean.
The fact is, it's rather difficult to find a way to reward good rp, and it would require the DM team to constantly watch on all the players, to see who's deserving and who's not. And maybe they will miss someone who's just having a play session after three beers, or a night shift, and is feeling very tired. Bottom line is, how do we find good roleplay, and reward it instead of rewarding simple dedication?
The answer is not easy, if ever there is one. But what I used to believe, and what I still believe, is that the players are the ones who can better judge good roleplay and reward it, by simple presence. Those that shine, and are able to create a wonderful story, are usually surrounded by players that want to have some of that reflection. Great roleplayers end up creating groups, and a group is what you need to pursue these server changing plots. Without it, you really cannot partecipate, and the bigger your groups is, the higher your chances to matter.
But this leads us to the only advise I feel to give about this kind of plots, that is don't advertise it. As soon as such a plot is known, there are people who rush out, looking for these "places", an activity that feels like farming, only to return to nothingness, aka the market, once the plot is over. Concerning the East Way Plot there were wonderful touches, like the riddles in the crypts, or the fact you needed two matching keys, and intrigue/diplomacy was thus needed. But should another plot like this one happen, I would simply put the hiding places in the module, and drop an hint to those that are actively pursuing it. Informations do run among players, and in the end it would get known to everyone, but those adventuring on a daily basis would have an advantage on those that goes out only when there are such plots. And people with a lot of contacts would have the advantage on those that tend to create a clique, because they would have more chances to be informed. Just my two cents.
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These plots usually take about two or three weeks to resolve. Keep that in mind, they're not finished a "few days" later.
They also aren't finished by one person, but rather by a consistent group which has members who proactively work together to resolve the plot.
It helps to bear these things in mind if you're going to have a logical discussion about these things.
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From what I've seen despite their flaws DMless plots are still a large improvement on plots relying completely on DM overseen events, where the major factors stops being "who plays more" and shifts to "who is the first person who happens to be online at the same time as the DM".
With DMless plots everyone has a fair chance and can all actively persue the goal at once and when ever they want. Typically, yes, the characters who are playing the game in the several days following the introduction of one of these plots are the ones who would succeed in them, as it should be. If you're looking to succeed in a plot while logged out of the game you'll be sadly dissapointed.
There will always be other ways to effect the server, plots that aren't DMless and player driven events, for those of you who dislike DMless plots, but I've always found DMless plots (Dispite never having been on the winning end of a single one) to be the fairest and most realistic way to handle large plots.
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One possible "solution" to this "problem" would be for DMs to "announce" the plot (if they do it that way) up to a week before the "plot items" are put into the game, a random amount of time later. This can give those who are interested but don't play every day a bit of a chance to make the choice to temporarily increase how much they play, if it interests them.
Personally, I find dedication to be something that pays of in every other aspect of life, and to think it shouldn't pay off in online gaming is a bit … odd. If that bothers you, get it in with somebody who "plays too much" and put in your two bits here and there as part of a group.
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It's the way it is. The more time you have to spend IG, the more you're bound to do. The DMless item hunting plots will favor those groups which have very active players. Can't keep everyone happy.
I'm in pretty much the same boat as the OP, with maybe a couple of hours to spare in a day (if that much) for CoA. I tend not to involve myself in the item-hunting plots. There's still plenty of slower, the more 'traditional' types going on, with a chance for those will less time to play to pursue. Might not be server-changing, but it's still something.
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the knowledge of the server geography is a plus in these events too, so those that are out there regularly will benefit anyway.
I actually held 4 keys quite quickly, but was fairly unable to capitalise on it as he was waiting for faction players to become availible to help him rather than just jumping into bed with 'allies'.
the plot carries on but having been part of the inital flurry, i was quickly removed from any influence in it despite the desire to do be involved.
Likely my own fault in my approach to the thing but somewhat frustrating!
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I like the DMless plots. They enable us to get on and change the world without the oversite of all the DMs. Those who play more affect the server more. However, there are still DM plots that can affect the server. These plots can be run with players who demonstrate RP and benefit the server.
Yes, I'd like more IG time to affect these more, butpre-announcing stuff is probably a bad way to go. One thing that might work is for these "Hunt the Thimble" type plots to have the items added into the game, bit by bit, over a period of weeks, rather than all in one go. This would have the effect of drawing out the play giving a more even chance of getting involved.
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One thing that might work is for these "Hunt the Thimble" type plots to have the items added into the game, bit by bit, over a period of weeks, rather than all in one go. This would have the effect of drawing out the play giving a more even chance of getting involved.
I've got to say that sounds like a very cool idea as it also gives people the time to organise attempts to arrange everything that needs to be done to steal said items between new ones popping up.
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But, this is with any and every game.
The more time spent not living life equals a greater gaming experience…and vice versa.
Just how it is...
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I guess I'd agree with Lamancha's suggestion about staggering out the introduction of plot items into the server, so the playerbase as a whole has a chance to make some RL preparation if they'd truly like to be involved in such item hunts.
Some groups and players do have an advantage in terms of more time to play, and thus, are much more likely to succeed in finding the items. Staggering it out would it least give a fair opportunity for others who don't have as much time, but want to be involved as much as they can.
There's certainly something to be said about people who take the time and effort to go out and find DMless plot items, but at the same time a precedent like "I am able to play a lot and that always equals more success for me" should not be set amongst the community. People come here to have fun when they are able to, not to be shafted merely for having a life outside the server.
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The more time you put into something the more you will receive out of it.
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The thing with that sentiment is that those who wish to invest in RL, gain in RL and those who invest in CoA gain in CoA.
Fairness is not the focus. Those who invest time whould be rewarded, but the trouble with always rewarding those who invest the time is that those who cannot invest the time end up getting totally disillusioned with their lack of success and look elsewhere
Some kind of balance, rewarding those who invest and also those who can only afford a few hours a week needs to be found, or will will alienate some great players who cannot be on 24x7.
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The time point is almost absurd really.
It use to be, if you were logged on at the exact same time as a DM, you got involved in a DM plot. Provided that DM wanted to include you, had time to include you, and the players on the quest chose to include you.
Now, a DM can set up a plot, and you can get involved at any time whether that DM is online or not.
How on earth could that in any way be construed as worse or making it harder for people with less flexible/available play time?
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How I see this is there are ways for people who don't play alot to find these items, its called allies. I am under the firm belief that if time is taken to secure alliances with people outside your group, involve many more people other then a selected few you travel with you are more likely to find these said items.
From my understanding these plots are not for one person to "Win" but to cause conflict when multiple groups find these items.I personally enjoy the DMless plots, I think its a great way for those who don't play in a TZ with many active DM's to get involved, but this is just my opinion.
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How on earth could that in any way be construed as worse or making it harder for people with less flexible/available play time?
What the main man said.
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I personally like the idea of staggering the item drops. I think it would be worth it for the DMs to try and see if having a little time to prepare in advance would let different groups/players to get involved. It couldn't hurt to try it, at least.
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The time point is almost absurd really.
Is it?
I may be wrong, and I do not wish for these DM-less plots to vanish as I think they are a vast improvement. Having said that, as Moloch stated, time was when you only got involved with DM plots if you happened to be online when a DM was and yada yada. This was not a good thing. However, now, if you are on line a lot, and some people are on a hell of alot, you surely must have a much greater chance of success on DM-less plots than those who choose to only commit a few hours a week.
Now, how can that be denied? Surely, if Joe is on for ten times longer a week than Fred, Joe must have a greater opportunity for success. It's been said that you can increase your chance of success with allies, sure you can, and you should. This is, after all, a server that encourages colaboration in the venture.
Having tried a new model with DMless plots, have we achieved a significant improvement on what went before? Undoubtably! Have we achieved Nervana for all? I very much doubt it. Is it worth developing and adapting this new model and experimenting in the interest of greater fun for more players? I think so.
@Jared:It couldn't hurt to try it, at least.
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Wow. I'm honestly kind of stunned that this is even under discussion.
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Moloch:
It use to be, if you were logged on at the exact same time as a DM, you got involved in a DM plot. Provided that DM wanted to include you, had time to include you, and the players on the quest chose to include you.
Moloch, you are thinking "You no longer have to go through bothersome procedure X". Some others are thinking "I can no longer use method X."
