Motivation.
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The issue wasn't even the policy. Players read what they wanted into it, not what was actually there.
There is nothing in Moloch's post that suggested TEH WIN.
Adventure and Intrigue guys, is what's there in all games. Yes, even your single player games.
What I'd really like to know, Eddie, is what do you think A&I actually represent?
Or, what do you think the server should be like without it? Perhaps I can clear some stuff up.
I definitely understand the interpretation of the policy, and not the policy, is the issue - which is why I think some official DM posts clarifying the interpretation would be helpful. In the current interpretation of the policy, I feel like A&I has come to mean, "If I make a list of goals and get a lot of people to answer my sendings, I will get to change the server however I want." Naturally, if that is the interpretation, people will get frustrated!
When a player plays a character on CoA, playing a character should be about telling stories with other players and their characters. Playing a character shouldn't be about checking off lists and counting heads on your way to remake the server in your own image!
I do not know how the misinterpretation came to be, but I cannot be the only one who sees it. I feel like the misinterpretation is a great source of frustration to players because it throws the priorities and expectations of players out of whack - it seems, to me, like everything is about changing the server more than telling the story now. Again, I feel like some official DM posts to clarify the interpretation would be helpful.
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I wasn’t allowed to do anything with the Rift because I was told the Mages Guild would get pissed, OOC, with the Sheriffs exploring the Rift (which was pretty laughable)
Plan - Completely ignore. Who cares if you piss off the Mages Guild? Rift is totally Sheriff responsibility.
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@21:
As DMs you see everything that goes on, everything that is said in the forums and what happens IG.
Joe Player doesn't, and that needs to be remembered. Things need to happen outside each faction, even spice on quests that give clues what’s going on to bring people into it. This needs to happen by both DMs and players, and it’s not at the moment.
This isn’t a RL war, it’s a computer game. Things should be done to get everyone involved, even to the determent of those involved sometimes. It’s not about the winning or end of the game, it’s the fun you have on the way there and at the moment for 80% of the server it’s just not a fun plot. If a plot has a feeling of dragging on with nothing happening and lots of players feel that way then maybe it is the case?
Warning: the following post is my PERSONAL PERSPECTIVE AND MY EXPERIENCE:
While I agree with the content and idea of what you're saying, i have to disagree to the extent that, from personal experience, any of the things I've done to get people involved have mostly been ignored. No response to the options that are there whatsoever.
Again, I'd reiterate that not only am have I attempted to get people involved, and also give them things to do, I've been pretty generous in giving out gold or other rewards to people who have gotten involved.
The problem is this - the oppurtunity is there and ALMOST NO ONE, takes it. Obviously, you with Bhast, are not the average player. For the few people who HAVE taken the oppurtunity I've presented I would think they've found it rather rewarding (Icly and oocly).
On that note, the one thing I think the DMs might consider doing is helping players out with being able to give rewards out for getting involved. I personally don't have much game time between school and now work, so I can't really pound out quests/gold/item farming to keep up with giving out worthwhile rewards to get people involved.
I don't necessarily think that, people should be getting involved FOR a reward, but because it promotes story, adventure, and intrigue, but I also think it's unreasonable that a player shouldn't get rewarded for getting involved and doing things.
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This isn't on topic but…
I wasn’t allowed to do anything with the Rift because I was told the Mages Guild would get pissed, OOC, with the Sheriffs exploring the Rift (which was pretty laughable)
Plan - Completely ignore. Who cares if you piss off the Mages Guild? Rift is totally Sheriff responsibility.
I have to completely disagree. The DMs are trying to make factions that are more clearly defined.
Sheriffs are about crime and criminals and the like.
MG is about magical and all that goes along with it.
IMO Rift falls into the magical catagory.
Now, I am not saying the sheriffs can't work on the rift too, its just the DMs want the factions more obvious in what they handle. Rift is magical, you will have to work with the MG or work against it and the others of the sheriff department, if you wish to follow that plot.
My two cents and I think I will leave it at that. I have no desire to get into an argument, I just wished my opinion known.
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@21:
It's more WoW than an RP server now
This is funny cause when I was "reintroducing (flirting)" KoKo back to the server a few days ago. She made that comment to me (in voice chat). I kinda lol'd.
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While factions may be more clearly defined, this is not true. There will never be the need to be part of a faction to pursue a certain plot. There are no exclusive rights .
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@angelfire - It's something we'll handle ICly.
My character thinks that it is her duty and her jurisdiction, and would defend those beliefs, but basically expects to be helping the Mage Guild anyway. She has high enough INT to realize that you guys know more than she does about the Rift.
My point was merely that I don't think anyone wants to see someone discouraged from participating in a plot for OOC reasons. If Bhast wanted to get involved with the Rift, he could have. Alexis is a Sheriff and she will.
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I can't comment on how things went for the last month or so up til the present, but my experience with the Eveningstar vs. Crag conflict was decidedly frustrating and not fun. I felt like my group tried to do a lot to force this into a violent head, but were simply ignored by NPCs on both sides. The players were responsive, but told not to do anything (this is the problem with a lawful faction that isn't run by PCs), and nothing ever happened.
So my experience actually is what Count describes as not being intended. It felt to me that non-members of the Hart and Legion were unable to do anything.
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types up a defense against the accusation of her claiming "faction only plots," but decides against it and just shakes her head and leaves
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@AWESOMEMAN:
I can't comment on how things went for the last month or so up til the present, but my experience with the Eveningstar vs. Crag conflict was decidedly frustrating and not fun. I felt like my group tried to do a lot to force this into a violent head, but were simply ignored by NPCs on both sides. The players were responsive, but told not to do anything (this is the problem with a lawful faction that isn't run by PCs), and nothing ever happened.
So my experience actually is what Count describes as not being intended. It felt to me that non-members of the Hart and Legion were unable to do anything.
Thats what I get to, though Minna is in the thick of it. Hence I am retiring because it's getting stale
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Well yeah, Merry was right along side you, and we were very proactive with intrigue, and I sure tried adventuring every single day, things just never happened ever. There was nothing I felt I could do with my PC, so I retired him.
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This isn't on topic but…
I wasn’t allowed to do anything with the Rift because I was told the Mages Guild would get pissed, OOC, with the Sheriffs exploring the Rift (which was pretty laughable)
Plan - Completely ignore. Who cares if you piss off the Mages Guild? Rift is totally Sheriff responsibility.
I have to completely disagree. The DMs are trying to make factions that are more clearly defined.
Sheriffs are about crime and criminals and the like.
MG is about magical and all that goes along with it.
IMO Rift falls into the magical catagory.
Now, I am not saying the sheriffs can't work on the rift too, its just the DMs want the factions more obvious in what they handle. Rift is magical, you will have to work with the MG or work against it and the others of the sheriff department, if you wish to follow that plot.
My two cents and I think I will leave it at that. I have no desire to get into an argument, I just wished my opinion known.
The Rift plot is getting close to like 3 years old now, and is decisively totally unrelated to the Mage's Guild. This plot was introduced to the module by Bhaliir when he destroyed the South, and it was made the single primary theme of the Custodians of Candlekeep. I don't know about the last few months, but I can't even think of a Mage Guilder that was involved in it back when I was, two years ago, and then a year and a half ago.
This is a huge meta plot in which a hundred different groups and factions are involved, of which I've never even heard of the Mage Guild being.
Onto your other points, I've never once in my life considered the Sheriffs as being focused on crime. The Sheriffs go after major villains, be they criminals or monsters or dragons. Rabbit was courting the (at the time) thieves guild with promises of cooperation in exchange for the Rift Machine. Of course it never happened because Caek abandoned the plot as soon as it got good. :P
Plots don't exist as you seem to believe they do.
There are major meta-plots like the Rift, and the Githyanki Invasion and Clar Banda's ascension that envelope every single group. Some can choose not to get involved, but the story is out there, and the adventure hooks are available to anyone who goes after them. Certain factions are more inclined to, or may make it a major goal to accomplish something involved in the ongoing plot, but they are in no way the group for which the plot was made (except Custodians tbh).
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CoA definitely does feel more like WoW than an RP server anymore. Perhaps another reason people don't want to get involved because the two factions are boring. I think letting PC's have a hand in how the city is run instead of being pawns would give players an incentive to get involved more.
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this is… like.... off topic..... I like...... think?
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I think letting PC's have a hand in how the city is run instead of being pawns would give players an incentive to get involved more.
Have you ever played this server? Have you ever heard of Lizardclaw, Rabbit or Xzavien?
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The players behind those characters have a long history with CoA and know quite abit more than your average weekender.
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@AWESOMEMAN:
I can't comment on how things went for the last month or so up til the present, but my experience with the Eveningstar vs. Crag conflict was decidedly frustrating and not fun. I felt like my group tried to do a lot to force this into a violent head, but were simply ignored by NPCs on both sides. The players were responsive, but told not to do anything (this is the problem with a lawful faction that isn't run by PCs), and nothing ever happened.
So my experience actually is what Count describes as not being intended. It felt to me that non-members of the Hart and Legion were unable to do anything.
Very untrue.
I know for a fact that both factions have sought outside help from people of other factions or individuals. Some of these people earned that trust by offering their aid on trivial things to said faction, slowly and gradually delving into more complex affairs.I play an individual, that isnt in -any- DM faction. Through hard work, dedication and simply showing up and trying to bring something to the table - I can be part of greater plots.
If you think that said factions are simply hogging all the fun to themselves - You are sorely mistaken. They reach out to others, yearning for more support. Because in the end? The best support, the best piece of intel and the best twist to the story will come from a PC. Not NPC. PC.
The players of these factions know that and the DM team plays on it.On the subject of gain - Every character has something to gain from this war, even if indirectly. Every character has goals they are trying to pursue… Their players only need to get creative and see how each side can help them accomplish that in return for their aid.
I will sum up my piece with these few words, not even in sentence form: Dedication, Creativity, Interaction, Will, Intrigue. -
@AWESOMEMAN:
I think letting PC's have a hand in how the city is run instead of being pawns would give players an incentive to get involved more.
Have you ever played this server? Have you ever heard of Lizardclaw, Rabbit or Xzavien?
Yes I am familiar with all these characters. While they certainly gained high positions of power and had some influence the fact is to my knowledge none of them actually had the same power as an NPC. Personally I think given I know of Rabbit I think he should have been the one to run the Sheriffs and not Vaughan heck maybe even the city itself. I mean actually declared the new leader of the Sheriffs or be allowed to challenge Cassiel for actual rule of the city and become the new defacto head if he won. Lizardclaw became pretty close to the head of the legion but he still served under Gondegal. You can become the highest general but you can never be the president.
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That's the point I'm trying to make. As a player, Lizardclaw was the leader of the Phoenix Legion. As a player, Xzavien was the leader of the Sheriffs - he didn't have a superior, he took Cassiel's vacant spot. And if you're arguing that he still wasn't in charge.. Xzavien then came to rule the city. I mean, he flat out rules Arabel.
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for some folks saying that plots have stalled because of lack of intrigue, havent been paying much attention of late
there has been more espionage and double agents in the last couple months that have been shaping how the factions are moving with the plot info they have to work with
some is about the war, some is about what this group knows, some is about what this other group knows
too many people look for the instant oh they declared war lets have a knockdown drag out mega battle
now they say that we have turned more into wow, last i checked wow has no spying or intrigue or anything beyond everyone rushing to the next level limit and then wait for the next expansion
i call bs, as we have fleshed out characters for the most part, sure we have some who love to just go kill and level, but the majority are the best roleplayers around
hell some of us have been here off and on for almost 9 years if not longer, so this is hardly wow.
if you run into a wall, back up and take another jump or go outside and take a break from the game
come back with fresh eyes and less sarcasm and do what you do when we play this game, the bottom line is we are having fun, so keep doing so