A Talk on Plots and Goals
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Some players, I have noticed are incredibly frustrated at their inability to push their plots, or otherwise win their plots. If I may, the below example is how I observe many player's behavior, but not necessarily their attitude.
Dungeon Master
Player 1
Player 2
Player 3You're walking along a cobble road. The road is at the bottom of an exceptionally steep valley, on either side of you is a nearly vertical cliff face, with loose rocks to make scaling even more difficult, perhaps impossible, though the occasional brush root can be seen. As you round a bend, you see a massive boulder blocking the road. It must have tumbled down some time ago and gotten itself wedged. The boulder is absolutely enormous, the size of a palace, you speculate that it may have been the result of some magical spell. Regardless of its origin, there it is, far too big to push, and blocking your path. In your wagon are ropes, grease, pick axes, shovels, food, bedrolls, a few magical reagents and other various equipment, and this wagon is pulled by two hardy ponies.
I'm going to try pushing the rock.
It doesn't move.
I'll keep pushing until it does.
It doesn't move, even when all three of you push, it's far too big for brute force.
I'm going to dig through our supplies to find that rope and a pickaxe. Since I'm an elf ranger, I'm pretty strong and pretty agile, I'm going to try to use the pickaxe and the rope to help me scale up the cliff and try to see up the road ahead.
After a number of stumbles, you pull it off a few hours later, and can see that the valley continues on as it has for some time, there's no way to get around it with the wagon and the ponies.
I climb back down and tell the others.
I keep pushing on the rock.
Well, we don't have much choice, it looks like we're going to be stuck here for a while. I get our digging equipment and get to work with the pickaxe into the boulder.
I join in.
I'm just going to keep pushing, but this is getting stupid.
Once we make some headway with the boulder, I'm going to switch to a shovel and start to dig into the low parts of the cliff, on the sides of the boulder, to unwedge it a bit.
After a few days both tasks have made a lot of progress.
It's been two days, I'm still pushing on the boulder, has anything happened?
No, you can't just push a bolder, I told you how big it is, you're just a human, you can't possibly muscle something like that.
Well I'm not stopping, I'm determined to accomplish this! I'm going to do it!
Push all you want, but there's things you could be doing that will have an actual impact instead. Anyway, you other two, after one more day, cracked the boulder with the pickaxes, and it is split into two massive halves.
Alright! Sometime earlier in the day we had maneuvered the wagon back a ways, and pushed it off to the side, now we're going to spread grease all along the ground by the wedge, and bind the two pieces with the rope, and use our ponies to pull it back behind us, back behind the wagon.
Good plan! After a number of grueling hours, and tight squeezes, you have successfully pulled the massive obstruction out of the way and gotten your wagon in front of it. You can now continue on your way.
This is bullshit. I worked myself to the bone trying to push that, and nothing happens. But as soon as the other two try something, everything works out. This is unfair and clearly favoritism.
The boulder and the road represent a major goal that the players wish to pursue. The equipment in the wagon represents various smaller plots and leads, around the module, such as giant monsters, missing magic artifacts, terrorized villages, and so on. The act of climbing the mountain, digging into the boulder and finally, pulling it all behind the wagon represent following those plot leads.
On this server, to accomplish a major goal, you have to build up to it. Every lesser plot you pursue, even if seemingly unrelated, can be used as leverage in your bigger goals. You can't do it alone, you have to get help from others, as well as help them with their own plans, much like Player 2 and 3 did. Player 1 just wanted to win the prize without playing the game to do it.
Imagine a has a very big app character; Azoun V. Who knows why he's in Arabel, let's say the Steel Regent is killed off and an evil wizard takes over, and wants to get Azoun V as well, so he goes into hiding in Arabel. Now obviously, his major goal is to avenge his sister and reclaim the throne of Cormyr. Arguably, he could just go into the streets and declare who he was, right? And build support from the commoners and soldiers who love him, then storm the palace!
Well, maybe. But that tells a very short, boring story, and it doesn't even seem realistic. What would make more sense, would be for young Azoun V to quietly stay incognito adventuring for a few years, building a reputation as a hero, quietly gaining the support of various nobles and temples by taking on daring quests on their behalf, and getting information on the evil wizard, finding weaknesses and weapons against him, until he's finally ready to make his big reveal, that he's the heir of the throne of Cormyr, and he already has followers! Whatever happens next, you know it's going to be climactic and very awesome. This is good story telling. It takes time, patience and persistence (and importantly, the inclusion of other players).
- golw
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I plant dynimate under boulder, problem solved! :)
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CG, you should take this to heart.
Grease solves all of our problems.
That is why I carry 5 mystical jars of grease at -all- times.
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Grease solves all of our problems.
DM'd a PnP campaign once where this one player played a sorcerer who literally tried to use grease to win every battle and complete every task. It is a hilarious spell in PnP.
On a more serious note, thanks for the advice golw. I'm going to try to follow this when I do my plots from now on.
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Grease and fire end all threats, but then you have the threat of a grease-fire.
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@AWESOMEMAN:
Grease and fire end all threats, but then you have the threat of a grease-fire.
does it matter if it's rendered el-rat grease, or do other creatures work also?
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Interesting story, Golw. Pitty about all the crap after it.
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keeps on pushing
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Cool and all.
Or you could just link to the player resources forum.
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oh….. dear.
I'm really not sure what you hope to achieve with comments like that. Except to annoy the DM team on the server you play on.
I'd simply advise you try being less negative.
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Well some people and others just don't know any other way on how to achieve a plot, expect for one or two ways.
For example i play a cleric of Immater(and i will not draw a blade or attack anything) . I heard this Demon is trying to destory the land and try to gather people to my aid with flyers, offering help to those who in need. etc and try to help with little things where he can but cannot get support or help to get him to kill this demon.
So what would you do? at this point i be hitting my head against the wall.
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Fliers are only part of it. Fliers are forgettable without IG follow up.
Taking your tale of an Ilmater Priest, the next step would be to rally people IG. Not just offering to help them, but talking up your cause. See who you can get to agree with you, join you, and fight with you. Make sendings to gather people IG. Arrange a quest, the sell your idea to people who show up.
Meeting your character and rping with them encourages people more than fliers, and word of mouth is powerful. If you gain notoriety the DMs may notice. In -addition- and not in place of this, you can contact a DM and follow the links posted by Gimpatronic.
It is a slow process, things need to build up slowly, or they will seem artificial.
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Fliers are only less inconsequential than bulletin board announcements.
If you hear a demon is trying to destroy the lands, you might decide that the time has come for the Ilmaterii to take up arms. Donning a suit of plate and a rusty mace you could embark on a crusade, sworn only to harm demons and their ilk and no other, in order to seek Ilmater's sponsership (ie. a DM taking notice and giving you a plot hook to pursue to fight Tataka). The more people who get involved in your controversy the better. Some Ilmaterii might consider you a violent radical, others you might be able to win over by showing them that Ilmater favours you. You could go and scale a mountainside in a loincloth on a pilgrimage, failing hard on every climb check until you're near dead, to show Ilmater and Arabel how far you are willing to go in order to beg the Broken God to intervene.
That kind of stuff gets talked about IG, not just OOCly ("Did you hear about the Ilmaterii cleric who's taken up arms and tried to climb the Stormhorns without so much as a rope? He was a bloody and broken mess and never even reached the top; they had to drag him off the mountain and to Eveningstar before he killed himself") and when that's happening, you are doing something right.
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There you go, some sweet ideas right there.
You could also simply heal the people that fight with/for you if you really didnt want to fight anything. But you'd also have to be prepared to throw yourself in front of monsters in self sacrifice to stop someone else getting killed if you couldnt help them with spells.
Everything in the adventure and intrigue post can be done with any concept, you just have to think outside the box.
If posters and fliers dont work, then accept that, and try something else. Grab people off the streets, shout in the streets, call out with sendings. If no one turns up, go to one of the factions and DEMAND they come NOW to help you. If they wont, tell the people and adventurers of thier cowardice and folly. then invite anyone to come with you one more time. etc etc.
Then go and DO IT.
Just dont give up, is the main thing.
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That's sort of what I was getting at. Say there is a DM faction of infernalists and demons, they aren't protected by the law, but they are powerful enough to keep the Red Hart and other good groups nervous.
Simply going from faction to faction and telling them its time to kill them all is pushing against the boulder. It won't get results from any of the factions, and won't be successful in the long run.
Making bulletin posts about it on the other hand, is just getting a megaphone and saying "I am going to push against this boulder now. Watch, it'll move this time."
The Bulletin Board is a way of sharing information, not a way of causing things to happen.
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RP your puppet, give him/her general goals, some will be generated on the run. Fit your character with some personal traits and a broad personal scope.
Talk to DMs but do not rely ONLY on DMs help to succeed.
Rely on other players.
Rely on RPing consistently (and yes, use sub-optimal gear, or "flavored" gear) accept non-optimal rewards that are fitting. End your character when his/her end is fitting, even if it was a surprise end. Retire your char when it becomes old and start a new concept.Live as your character would live. Do things as he/she would do.
Then you don't need plot, you don't need "winning", you won't need enemies or friends, no faction "A" against faction "B".
You will only need to play.
Because playing is winning. -
RP your puppet, give him/her general goals, some will be generated on the run. Fit your character with some personal traits and a broad personal scope.
Talk to DMs but do not rely ONLY on DMs help to succeed.
Rely on other players.
Rely on RPing consistently (and yes, use sub-optimal gear, or "flavored" gear) accept non-optimal rewards that are fitting. End your character when his/her end is fitting, even if it was a surprise end. Retire your char when it becomes old and start a new concept.Live as your character would live. Do things as he/she would do.
Then you don't need plot, you don't need "winning", you won't need enemies or friends, no faction "A" against faction "B".
You will only need to play.
Because playing is winning.Yes I don't worry about winning, because like the mythbusters failure is always an option!. Sometimes the more fun option!
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Yes I don't worry about winning, because like the mythbusters failure is always an option!. Sometimes the more fun option!
You know it ! it might be a gonna crash n burn, but it'll be a wild ride !