Sarah Palin not running for president?
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I love the fact that you lot decide to debate politics on CoA.
I can tell you american or UK right winged, what do you call it, conservatives? one thing. In Denmark, we are the happiest people in the world. So says most studies. And it is true, because we have a very high sense of personal freedom, and a very high sense of safety. These are the two prime needs in order for a human being to achieve happiness.
We pay just around 45% of our income in taxes. In return, I get a FREE education. Not only that, I get just over 1000 Euro's paid each month, so that I dont have to work insanely hard and can concentrate on my stuidies.
I dont pay for roads, hospitals, education, anything. If I am unemployed, there is a safety net. If I get sick, there is a safety net. No matter what happens, I wont end up on the streets unless I choose to do so myself.
You may think all your low taxes and LOADS of money is what makes you happy. But in all honesty… You are paying them one way or another.
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Omg, close this thread, it stopped being good after first post.
Haha this is why the conservative argument is always superior, because when conservatives back their arguments with facts and talk all so politely, socialists always try and shut down the argument because even they know deep down they can never win it. Lol.
Conservative for the win!
Why you so Bible?
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tl;dr
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@The:
The problem I have with this thread is Spartan's posts are just waaaaay to long! :lol:
I like to explain myself fully when I write.
In RL I write about politics and have a book out soon, I am to into the habit of justifying everything I say, which takes space.
Spartan
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We must see this book.
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@O'louth:
I love the fact that you lot decide to debate politics on CoA.
I can tell you american or UK right winged, what do you call it, conservatives? one thing. In Denmark, we are the happiest people in the world. So says most studies. And it is true, because we have a very high sense of personal freedom, and a very high sense of safety. These are the two prime needs in order for a human being to achieve happiness.
We pay just around 45% of our income in taxes. In return, I get a FREE education. Not only that, I get just over 1000 Euro's paid each month, so that I dont have to work insanely hard and can concentrate on my stuidies.
I dont pay for roads, hospitals, education, anything. If I am unemployed, there is a safety net. If I get sick, there is a safety net. No matter what happens, I wont end up on the streets unless I choose to do so myself.
You may think all your low taxes and LOADS of money is what makes you happy. But in all honesty… You are paying them one way or another.
There is no such thing as free and you do pay, and the way you pay is a great deal more expensive, than with a market method.
I don't get the sentiment that if you hand over half of your earnings to the state to do something for you, its free. It isn't free it is costing you half of your earnings of there abouts.
I think overall if I hand my hard earned cash over to market providers, on balance, I will pay out a lot less money overall, for better quality services, than I ever will if I pay the same money to the state.
As for the safety net part, I think that a functional market based model, needs to be combined with a decent welfarfe model, to help people when the cards are down.
As for freedom, after thirteen years of British Labour Party, most of our freedoms had been violated in one way or another.
We had:
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The most CCTV of any nation in the world, including communist China, making us the most watched people on the planet, the Labour Party also brought in laws that enabled agencies of the state, other than the police and intelligence services to tap calls and read emails. This amounts to a complete violation of privacy. Oh and despite all this we had rising violent crime.
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The Labour Party brought in trial without jury in some cases as it detention without trial. This violates the principles of justice, as all should be able to examine the reason of their imprisonment, as all should also be judged by their peers of the land and not the state.
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The state interfered greatly with freedom of expression, as Great Britain had super injunctions - which not only prevent people from saying something, but also prevent the press from talking about this prevention. Oh and lets not forget Labour bringing in draconian and purely arbitrary libel laws.
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Freedom of religious conscience represents, that everyone should be able to hold religious views, outside interference from the state. But in the UK, there has been instances of Christians being told to remove the holy cross or sacked if they offer prayer to people and such. This naturally is a result of Labour Party legislation.
I could do on….
Socialism = fascism in my view
Spartan
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@Deadlock:
We must see this book.
I will post something on the boards when its out! : D
Its taken me on and off three years to write.
Spartan
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This thread has had more attention than the Steve Jobs thread.
This makes me sad
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Who's Steve Jobs?
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Steve Jobs doesn't deserve the attention he's getting. He was mentioned in the news, as he should have been, being a billionaire businessman. People are harping on as if he really made a big difference in the world though. He didn't. He sold outlandishly high priced technology that was assembled in overseas by what amounts to slave labor. At best people could say he's responsible for the personal home computer, but that wouldn't be true.
Spartan you sound like you're able to back up your claim of being educated, but I can't help noticing that your argument isn't backed up by history or reality. A glance at Europe will tell an American that socialized capitalism is the best available answer. I don't know about UK politics so I won't even attempt it. I don't understand how you can justify calling some socialist policies fascist. You're right, nothing is free, and universal healthcare, among other things would cost every person. However it's pooled wealth, it's a burden shared by the entire nation, and it ensures that every person is cared for in the end. Shared concern and shared responsibility, instead of individual privilege.
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@AWESOMEMAN:
Steve Jobs doesn't deserve the attention he's getting. He was mentioned in the news, as he should have been, being a billionaire businessman. People are harping on as if he really made a big difference in the world though. He didn't. He sold outlandishly high priced technology that was assembled in overseas by what amounts to slave labor. At best people could say he's responsible for the personal home computer, but that wouldn't be true.
Okay, let one of your favorite music artists die, I dunno a Micheal Jackson…
Why everytime someone die people turn into "well he did/didn't do this and that. When most of these people...don't do shit with their own lives?
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Glow actually has a valid point.
Spartan, while you undoubtly have some knowledge on the subject, you need to understand the vast difference between theory and reality.
In Denmark, we have many small parties, rather than a few large ones. Hells, our newly formed government is a coaliting of three parties.
That said, when all comes to show, the difference in how they want to run the country is insanely small.
It isnt based upon various political view points, but on one very basic princple;
How more important are your personal needs, than those of the entire population?
I am not a communist. I believe if I take a higher education, and work 60 hours a week, I want something to show for it. And I dont want the precise same pay as the ladies in the supermarket who packs my buyings.
That being said. No, private health care isnt always better. Because while the supply/demand capitalistic wordings might be true in theory, in reality it means:
I want more money. So, instead of running the most effective, I take short cuts. I run the ER with 3 people less, to cut costs. I buy the second best medicine, because I will earn more money.
Sure, your theory states that eventually, someone else will come along, and offer a better alternative. Yet, you ignore things like greed, apathy towards other human beings, deceit, corruption and a whole bunch of other stuff, all stuff that costs lives, because in this world, are are still too many people who do not give a shit about others.
I can supply you with the first 3 thesis' backing up such. I have so far studied Economic and Social studies with a major in American and British culture, and the utopia you speak of, will never exist.
Capitalism already more or less rules the world. And people die in Africa like never before. The EU have embargos that starve farmers across the clobe, because the EU buy up their wares at a shitty price, to then have it rot in huge storage facilities, so that the European farmers can survive our constant inflation.
Hells, Denmark is so frightened of everyone who doesnt have blue eyes and blond hair, that we seek to build huge walls around our own little sanctuary, and watch while the rest of the world starve to death.
But thats just me.
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In Denmark, we are the happiest people in the world.
Wouldn't have anything to do with your drinking? :wink:
Denmark, 30 June 2010 $101,084 per capita debt. 180% of GDP
A glance at Europe will tell an American that socialized capitalism is the best available answer.
You mean the Europe that's on the verg of collapse? Yes American's were so inspired by this example they voted down Obama's 2012 Buget 97 to Doh!
They are so inspired by the Tax and Spend model that Obama's "Job's Bill". The one they need to Vote on Right Now! Is being blocked in the Senate by House Leader Harry Reid? :shock: Awkward!
In my humble opinion Canada has struck a reasonable course.
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You mean the Europe that's on the verge of collapse?
No… probably, she means the actually existing Europe. Unlike, for example, the US in the summer of this year, it's not on the verge of anything.
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The actually exising Europe? Not on the verge of anything? Greece anybody?
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The actually exising Europe? Not on the verge of anything? Greece anybody?
Greece is one country.
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There is no less than 44 COUNTRIES in Europe.
Greece is one.
Secondly, the foreign debt of Denmark is TINY.
I hate my country. I dislike what we call Socialists in Denmark. I am one huge capitalistic and conservative bastard by danish standards.
Yet, at the end of the day, the reason i can feel like so, is because I have enough security that I can bitch about it.
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US Capitalism as it stands rewards the rich with more money and kicks the working people in the nuts.
You dont lower Taxes and fight 2 wars, that is apart of what cause the economic collapse. The reason the right wing is against raising taxes is because they will not get re-elected if they do. There is no proof lowerinig Taxes creates jobs, it did not work for the past 8 years of the Bush administration.
Wallstreet investors taking people's money and playing "big casino" is what help lead to the collapse.
The privatie Healthcare system determines who lives and who dies by a corporate "Death Panel", they can choose anytime they want to deny coverage if it gets too expensive for them to make a profit (The reason why you only get coverage on approved procedures)
The reason the USA private Healthcare system "appears to work so well" is because half the people that stand in line get thrown out due to no insurance, which lowers waiting time. The people who can afford the average $70,000 medical bill say it works great, because they can afford it.
US style capitalism is based on the Theory if the prosperous do well, the wealth they have will eventually trickle down to those benieth them, called Trickle down economics. In reality the rich get thier money, and spit on the people making them the money, while finding ways to give the working people less money and benefits. Capitalism works when it is done as it is supposed to be, but such a thing does not exhist.
It was known by alot of people all along Sara Palin was not going to run, if she did run for president she would make drastically less money. The fact she quit an elected term half way through in order to make millions should have been a first sign.
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Wallstreet investors taking people's money and playing "big casino" is what help lead to the collapse. And. "Capitalism works when it is done as it is supposed to be, but such a thing does not exhist."
Your right Capitalism is non existent. It's better described as "Corporatisim".
http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/ ... RTA0001939 -
There is no less than 44 COUNTRIES in Europe.
Yes true. But the 17 member EU, which Greece is a part of are all tied together economically. A Greek default could have dire repercussions on a global scale. "A Greek default would be bigger than the ones of Argentina and Russia and risk a "vicious circle" of contagion in Europe, according to Jim Reid of Deutsche Bank, Bloomberg reports." http://english.capital.gr/news.asp?id=889719