Bring back more "badass-ery" to CoA
-
Not true.
-
BrokenGunBlade has a point; Efu is a harder server to survive on but it seems to be going fairly strong despite its fairly steep learning curve but its been that way for quite some time so people are used to it. CoA on the other hand has gradually been moving in the other direction so to move it back suddenly would alienate a lot of people. I agree with Awesomeman that level 7 is a good average for this server and as for magical loot I am always in favor of items that are more specialized instead of your generic +1 which the DMs have been shifting towards in recent years.
-
As a relatively new player (only about 3mo+) on the server, i cannot compare how things were and how they are now. I will say though that i love the way things are. I've had a character hit 9 twice and he is now working back up to that level for the third time.
The plots are amazing and i believe that the DMs do a great job of "controlling" who dies and how compensation is made.
I must admit, it is quite upsetting hearing people say that the server is dying (especially as someone who has just arrived). To me, there is still an enjoyable number of players around, and it seems like the ones who have stuck around are those of incredible quality – adding facets to the game that can not be found in any other server.
In the end, all i have to say is:
LONG LIVE COA!!! -
While we have certainly had a lower player count than some people may have been accustomed to in the past it doesn't mean the server is dying per say. True, NWN is a 10+ year old game and that is bound to have an impact on the player base but so is Ultima Online which is almost twice as old and graphics more outdated than NWN yet still has a small yet strong community. As long as there is nothing that can replace what NWN does (since NWN2 was a failure and NWO seems like a CPRG than an actual MMO) I think there will be always be a community for it even though it will be small.
-
I wouldn't listen to "the doomsayers". There's always someone crying "the server is dying, run for the hills" or something. Of course it's dying, you're dying as well. But it's not dying any faster than it has been from the start.
But i wasn't considering leaving, quitting or anything of the sort, i love it here. It was just to get a discussion started and see if many people agreed things were a little too easy. Even if they stay that way i'm not going anywhere.
-
My views put simply:
-
Most quests are easier than they once were, whether because their most dangerous components have been removed (lumberjack assassins with throwing axes) or because people have learned the utility of magical items and consumables etc.
-
The server as a whole is more dangerous however. There are some phenomenally colourful and dangerous regions within it, and most of those that come to mind have nothing at all do with questing.
-
XP and GP and loot are all easier to get and faster. It no longer takes several days of a non-quest-hammering person's time to make it to level 2. Dying does not set you back quite so much unless you respawn, so the result is people being higher level.
-
FD is scrutinized, not all PvP. You can still beat up someone who looks at you the wrong way as long as it's not someplace where NPCs would react - and that particular rule has been around since the days of "badassary".
Even the scrutinizing of FD is nothing new. There was a time when a heap of PCs foolishly charged into a Banite temple and got slaughtered by some high level, looted and buffed PCs at the other end. The DMs raised them all. Were they wrong to do it? Should the server just be ruled by (pardon) Rumble?
It is really not that terrible a situation. It is not City of Carebear. If you want to PvP then do it, just don't be so selfish as to go on a murdering spree because a bunch of lowbies thought to give the server another dimension by setting up an opposition to your glorious status quo. NOTHING stops you from beating them up, threatening their friends, stealing from them to dissuade them, so I don't see what the problem is.
If you want danger, then either do the lesser done quests (Mertoi, Underdark, Scrambled Eggs, Pilgrims come to mind) or go somewhere outside of a quest zone. Places like Miyertar can be murderous with huge gelatinous cubes regularly TPKing adventurers whilst simultaneously offering the chance for really unique rewards to be found; the underdark, mountains, Wyvernrest - the list goes on.
-
-
@--lizard-man--:
My views put simply:
-
Most quests are easier than they once were, whether because their most dangerous components have been removed (lumberjack assassins with throwing axes) or because people have learned the utility of magical items and consumables etc.
-
The server as a whole is more dangerous however. There are some phenomenally colourful and dangerous regions within it, and most of those that come to mind have nothing at all do with questing.
-
XP and GP and loot are all easier to get and faster. It no longer takes several days of a non-quest-hammering person's time to make it to level 2. Dying does not set you back quite so much unless you respawn, so the result is people being higher level.
-
FD is scrutinized, not all PvP. You can still beat up someone who looks at you the wrong way as long as it's not someplace where NPCs would react - and that particular rule has been around since the days of "badassary".
Even the scrutinizing of FD is nothing new. There was a time when a heap of PCs foolishly charged into a Banite temple and got slaughtered by some high level, looted and buffed PCs at the other end. The DMs raised them all. Were they wrong to do it? Should the server just be ruled by (pardon) Rumble?
It is really not that terrible a situation. It is not City of Carebear. If you want to PvP then do it, just don't be so selfish as to go on a murdering spree because a bunch of lowbies thought to give the server another dimension by setting up an opposition to your glorious status quo. NOTHING stops you from beating them up, threatening their friends, stealing from them to dissuade them, so I don't see what the problem is.
If you want danger, then either do the lesser done quests (Mertoi, Underdark, Scrambled Eggs, Pilgrims come to mind) or go somewhere outside of a quest zone. Places like Miyertar can be murderous with huge gelatinous cubes regularly TPKing adventurers whilst simultaneously offering the chance for really unique rewards to be found; the underdark, mountains, Wyvernrest - the list goes on.
Imho you answered this question in the words i bolded ;)
-
-
Hey all,
I think with the server:
- In general I don't think that most quests have got easier, I think that players have simply got more skilled in understanding their classes. I do think that this pleases the not so mechanically hot (although often said players are greater rpers which is more important), although this frustrates those who like more of a challenge.
As a constructive solution I would suggest modifying more quests, or replacing existing quests with an optional extra bit, which I party might want to do, which is extra hard but perhaps drops nicer items, more gold, or more exp to compensate for the extra challenge. This will please those who don't want it harder keeping them happy, while also providing extra challenge to those who want more hardcore quests.
- I think equally with pvp there is an option to please both camps. Divide the server into a safe zone and a adventure zone. The safe zone I would say should be all of Arabel city, except the slums; while the adventure zone would be everything else. Now with the safe zone, pvp rules should be more strict, which could be made to make good IC sense, with IC legal power concentrated in the city and lots of NPC and PC militia running around, to make pvp hard. Outside of the 'safe area' I would by design make the lands ICly lawless places.
Now this would please the pvp averse, as they could realistically avoid pvp almost entirely if they so choose, simply by staying in the safe area. Equally if people know the wilds are to be feared both from an IC and OOC point of view, it means that if they do 'choose' to move into dangerous area, they should expect the possibility of more violence.
To make this work, we would simply need a good story to explain why the law is so weak outside the city, a truly neutral authority within the city, so people if they so 'choose' can avoid conflict and quests within the city up to mid level so people can stay within its walls if they so choose.
The quest side is already sorted, replacing the current authority with Lahl or someone similar would work, as would replacing the current guard with a lawful neutral City Watch.
Story wise you could have it as Lahl returns to Arabel with some knights, many of who die weakening her forces to an extent, rending team Lahl weak on the attack, against say factions outside the city. Lahl though uses her cunning and considerable wealth to heavily fortify the city, making the city itself virtually impossible to take in a siege.
The forces of Lahl are also insufficient to really patrol outside the city, so any place laying outside the formidable defenses of Arabel quickly fall into lawlessness. This story wise creates a permanent stalemate between the city and external forces. External forces both good and evil fight over the lands external to Arabel itself, where things are more intense.
With this I would also swing it, so that outside the city shops are generally better and quests drop more gold/items/exp; to give players an actual incentive to leave the safety of the city walls.
- It think a lot of players miss the original crafting system and this server lost a lot of players when it was ditched. Quite honestly I think the scrapping of the old crafting system was the single most player count damaging decision ever taken, it didn't need fixing as it wasn't broken, it hurt the server.
The point of a player crafting system is that it allows players to advance themselves without constant dm intervention. This is good as when it is only players who are perceived rightly or wrongly who suck up to dms ever getting any decent loot, it can really annoy other players who don't, even when they rp and abide by the spirit as well as the letter of the server rules. It kills bad feeling over rightful or wrongful feelings of favoritism.
It is also good that players are empowered to be able to do things for themselves and bluntly, in the modern world of gaming it is a really basic expectation, especially with roleplaying games, that you should be able to interact with the game world to create your own gear.
I am pleased to see this being fixed and consider a lot of the new DMs to be fair, more responsive to the wishes of players, which I consider a good thing. I am glad to see the return of a crafting system and and I am pleased with what has been done so far.
I think what would enhance it further though, would be to script a crafting system which allows for players to enchant (within a low level magical setting) items which they have crafted. So people can turn say a longsword into a longsword +1 or a tower shield into a tower shield +1 etc. Also it would be nice to see a return of generic magic items, such as crafting spell resistance items or amulets of fire resistance, or belts of guiding light.
The overall theme of everything that I have been saying and everything which did make this server great in the past and improve its standing in the future is player choice. Some players like quests more hard core, others really don't, so give the choice to go either way. Some people are not good at or don' like pvp, others like the added danger of pvp, give the players the choice of either direction, with safe and dangerous area. With crafting it is infinitely better to let players choose how much time they want to spend crafting, rather than make that choice for them. There is nothing wrong with letting players get stronger on their own steam.
Those are more thoughts on how precisely this server's life can be increased and more people pleased. Player choice is the key.
Spartan
-
Like some people have alluded to, the end game here is to realize that the level of badassery in the server is - truly - up to us as the community. Asking the DMs to alter something to try and sate a hunger that is really only able to be sated by us ourselves, is like asking them to cut off one end of a blanket and sew it onto the other end to try and make it longer.
I definitely think the final verdict is starting to show here. You want hardcore? Then get your shit hardcore, son! No one's going to give you hardcore. Granted, the general mindset of players may have softened a little, this I believe, but changing the mechanics of the game will have little long term effect. We adapt, it's our nature.
-
Server's too easy, yeah.
FD is /too/ scrutinized, I think.
I think people should be offered an IC opportunity to walk away alive from an encounter where they have been subdued(for most cases). I don't think people should be getting up after they have already been defeated in PvP, as that's just asking to be FD'd.
Other day I won a PvP encounter and the fellow just kept getting back no matter how much I beat him down and threatened to kill him if he got back up. All he kept doing was getting back up and telling me how much I was going to regret it. DM then told me it would be unsporting to FD him.
There's little feeling of merit anymore in the server. Playing it smart and making more friends than enemies will nearly always get you further than using mechanical PvP to further all your plots, so why can people play Superman-type characters and not end up dead when they're playing it dumb and stubborn in a dangerous situation? Actions need to have consequences.
We're not here to hoard levels/gold. We're here to make a STORY(like a movie), and have fun while we're at it.
Have fun with killing the orcs, not looting them afterwards(although loot is nice too).
-
The way to make things less interesting and less exciting and lose even more of remaining playerbase: try to make everyone happy.
- In general I don't think that most quests have got easier, I think that players have simply got more skilled in understanding their classes.
Nope, they're easier. The part about optional parts is fine, but quests in general are easier.
- I think equally with pvp there is an option to please both camps. Divide the server into a safe zone and a adventure zone.
I don't know if this is a joke or you're just trolling. Why not just let people choose what level they want to be and let everyone be DM for a day? I'm sorry to say this but this is the worst idea I've ever heard in 8 years of trolling the boards.
- It think a lot of players miss the original crafting system and this server lost a lot of players when it was ditched.
If people actually left because of the crafting system then good riddance. Crafting characters sucked a lot of the fun of the game, unbalanced the economy and usually fell about 150 miles short of creating anything that resembled worthwhile RP. It usually just made one faction richer than another. While reintroducing it in a way that requires interaction with other people and getting out of the crafting station is fine, it's not going to save the server.
Those are more thoughts on how precisely this server's life can be increased and more people pleased.
You can't please everyone, not even most of the time. Pleased means we're shooting for some mediocre happy medium that can't be reached. It means you're trying to be all things to all people and you can't.
Carebearing the server to these levels just makes thing less interesting for everyone. Are we a server built around great RP and intrigue and PvP and interaction and conflict between factions and players? Oh yes, but there's a happy fairy land where people make pottery and can't draw their swords because the magic fairy princess has a spell that makes it so. Half the people live there and half the people live in the scary part.
Sorry Spartan, I don't think your ideas are completely without merit, but I think this is exactly what we don't need.
Who are all these players who want to play a game where we all have swords and kill stuff, but want absolutely no challenge, chance of dying or conflict?
The players we really miss, were the ones who wanted more "deep RP" over slash'em up PvP and while I was a proponent of more action and less sitting around discussing the sunset I will be the first to say- we lost some very good players and an important part of the server when they left. I was wrong to ever complain about how dumb parties, fashion shows and talking about why Arabel didn't have a thriving arts scene was. CoA Sims had it's drawbacks, but it contained some of the best RPers we had and it added some life to the server.
I wish there was a way to include both -those- camps in the server in a way that worked (and for a while it did on some levels). A place where the well developed characters went to parties and discussed society and were concerned about their faults and talked about their feelings, while affecting NPCs at a high level and public opinion and were involved in politics. While the more brutal adventuring crowd did the grunt work and fought in the streets and got their hands messy and bloody with other characters' blood.
I think this was the whole concept behind the noble houses in V2:
You have these big nobles who want things to go their way, but there's only so much they can do personally so their agents have to connive and convince others that they're right, they have to take part in the life of the city- be a part of the noble class's fun and games, you have to put on the fancy uniform and meet dignitaries and make nice with the other barons, but in the end you met in back alleys to work out the harsher details of the deal, you bought information, hired spies, you killed the other agents if they got too close to your territory, etc. etc. etc. The thing was the people who wanted to RP being the house bard, or talk their way around things, or hire other people to do things, or set up and actually control the crafters and set prices, all had a place. You just couldn't do anything you wanted because you worked for a guy who couldn't take the popularity hit if you did something stupid.
It gave a place for someone to play a beautiful influencer from a RP standpoint that had no mechanical ability at all and who could throw a party that Lahl and Bahllir had to attend and make nice for a day while causing problems in a public place. But those people weren't immune from getting ganked- if a bard got too much political power, someone controlled too many crafters; you could always take the 10 str, 18 chr guy out behind the stable and poke their eyes out. So they had to hire guards, they had to make deals with other factions. They had to RP at a level that a fighting character had to be mechanically sound.
It was a beautiful plan for a social/RP/PvP server. It often stalled and had its own issues and maybe I'm being a little nostalgic.
If people really want to craft and avoid PvP and just have an easy time getting levels they can hire people to get them materials and item recipes, be nice IC to everyone and do the same 3 quests over and over again with optimal parties. I don't even see how making those people happy is even an issue we need to address.
I originally started this post:
I think all quests should just be put on CARES like spawns so you have no idea what you're up against going in because I die mostly delivering the FIVESTAR PACKAGE when there's no one else on the server. Ogres on Nada's? An army of 2hp rats on Kathenas led by an ancient red dragon? Now that's awesome danger.
More seriously: maybe camps set up in the far corners with very hard CAREs spawns with a chest, maybe a building or some barricades that were heavily marked as "Danger do not enter". It would give a random, difficult task. Sort of like the orc-castle quest but smaller in scale and more like a random spawn. Rather than having to wander the roads it would allow players to scout an area, come up with a plan and determine if they could do it, RP out the whole attack, etc.
-
- I think equally with pvp there is an option to please both camps. Divide the server into a safe zone and a adventure zone.
I don't know if this is a joke or you're just trolling. Why not just let people choose what level they want to be and let everyone be DM for a day? I'm sorry to say this but this is the worst idea I've ever heard in 8 years of trolling the boards.
Agreed with Nikko. This is easily the worst idea ever of all time forever and ever, amen.
-
The players we really miss, were the ones who wanted more "deep RP" over slash'em up PvP and while I was a proponent of more action and less sitting around discussing the sunset I will be the first to say- we lost some very good players and an important part of the server when they left. I was wrong to ever complain about how dumb parties, fashion shows and talking about why Arabel didn't have a thriving arts scene was. CoA Sims had it's drawbacks, but it contained some of the best RPers we had and it added some life to the server.
THIS. I tried playing a couple of weeks ago, and I was surprised by how much things had changed. One of the draws of Arabel was that it felt like a living, breathing city with vibrant characters who weren't just adventurers. The gossipers sitting in the market, the plays that took weeks to arrange, the social characters who did little more than make friends and make people laugh, all actually contributed to making the city feel alive, especially for a newbie to the server.
During my admittedly brief visit (big disclaimer sign HERE), goal-oriented adventure seems to have taken over. I can understand why, but the absence of the texture and colour that that other style of play brought makes the server seem a little sterile.
If people actually left because of the crafting system then good riddance. Crafting characters sucked a lot of the fun of the game, unbalanced the economy and usually fell about 150 miles short of creating anything that resembled worthwhile RP. It usually just made one faction richer than another. While reintroducing it in a way that requires interaction with other people and getting out of the crafting station is fine, it's not going to save the server.
While crafting never produces the most entertaining roleplay, it does provide an incentive to stay online longer when there doesn't seem much else to do. This can sometimes result in a higher player count than there would otherwise be - a higher player count draws other players in, who draw other players in, as part of a positive feedback loop.
I've seen this happen on a number of servers in NWN's history. Not every feature on a server needs to encourage brilliant roleplay - sometimes it's enough to get people in-game, and the rest will fall into place of its own accord. :) The single biggest advert for CoA in the past? 55/55.
-
Server's too easy, yeah.
FD is /too/ scrutinized, I think.
I think people should be offered an IC opportunity to walk away alive from an encounter where they have been subdued(for most cases). I don't think people should be getting up after they have already been defeated in PvP, as that's just asking to be FD'd.
Other day I won a PvP encounter and the fellow just kept getting back no matter how much I beat him down and threatened to kill him if he got back up. All he kept doing was getting back up and telling me how much I was going to regret it. DM then told me it would be unsporting to FD him.
Ha, thats just dumb and unrealistic.
-
The OP hasn't found the IG Troll Store Keeper that sells the "Evil Ass-less Chaps" yet? They only come in spikey black leather.
The ultimate in "Badass-ery" Accessories. :shock:
-
It gave a place for someone to play a beautiful influencer from a RP standpoint that had no mechanical ability at all and who could throw a party that Lahl and Bahllir had to attend and make nice for a day while causing problems in a public place. But those people weren't immune from getting ganked- if a bard got too much political power, someone controlled too many crafters; you could always take the 10 str, 18 chr guy out behind the stable and poke their eyes out. So they had to hire guards, they had to make deals with other factions. They had to RP at a level that a fighting character had to be mechanically sound.
It was a beautiful plan for a social/RP/PvP server. It often stalled and had its own issues and maybe I'm being a little nostalgic.
It is well put what Nikko said, but I just dont see why such can't happen now, I mean someone creating a naturally influential character and do those stuff. Alright, it is not a world of nobles where obvious hostility will affect relations somewhat differently, but its not like the setting has no room for diplomats and hired guards.
(I do miss the houses as well though >.>)
-
Meh. I miss the thugs in the slums that would try to rob/threaten/blackmail you as soon as you stepped in… Now, I can't find anyone in there :(
Slums is the new Northwest.
-
Other day I won a PvP encounter and the fellow just kept getting back no matter how much I beat him down and threatened to kill him if he got back up. All he kept doing was getting back up and telling me how much I was going to regret it. DM then told me it would be unsporting to FD him.
I'm sure there was something else, because no DM will tell you such FD would be unsporting. When people refuse to acknowledge ic threats just because they know oocly you cannot kill them, that's when you truly kill them. Sooner or later, they will learn.
-
The players we really miss, were the ones who wanted more "deep RP" over slash'em up PvP and while I was a proponent of more action and less sitting around discussing the sunset I will be the first to say- we lost some very good players and an important part of the server when they left. I was wrong to ever complain about how dumb parties, fashion shows and talking about why Arabel didn't have a thriving arts scene was. CoA Sims had it's drawbacks, but it contained some of the best RPers we had and it added some life to the server.
You said what I have been thinking for the past two years. The market-sitters had some role-players who, to me, made the world feel dynamic and alive. They may not have had goals, a checklist, or a want of conflict, but they expressed feelings and thoughts to the characters who did. I believe those feelings and thoughts influenced the goal-oriented characters more than some players give them credit for doing. I feel like the server lost a lot when the tone of players toward them became so derisive. Honestly, I do not understand why the tone became so derisive, because influencing characters through the expression of feelings and thoughts sounds like the definition of intrigue. The only difference, as far as I can see, is the market-sitters were not a competitive or conflict-driven lot. Still, they influenced the characters who were, so what was wrong with that?
-
Nikko said alot and i agree with it fully.
But this question was asked.
It is well put what Nikko said, but I just dont see why such can't happen now, I mean someone creating a naturally influential character and do those stuff. Alright, it is not a world of nobles where obvious hostility will affect relations somewhat differently, but its not like the setting has no room for diplomats and hired guards.
It's simple the server changed and drove away the players that would of enjoyed it and made it meaningful,now the bulk of the player base is more intrested in pushing DM plots
Last thing im going to add is the way the server has moved most everything onto an ooc forum im a big fan of doing things icly and in game,so the notice boards were removed now any infomation you don't hear by word of mouth you have to find out out of character,trading is now done on it's own forum so it's not done in game or in character all these things move players away from being in game and and online to my mind that can only be a bad thing.