Keep Conflict Alive
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@Olouth:
But when it smells of OOC courtesy, then why wasnt it given to others? That Crey can be allowed to escape and get help, when he tried to gank a group, yet I was left to be executed… It smells of favoritism.
I wasn't given help. I escaped on my own. It's their fault for trying to capture me instead of just FDing me in the initial fight.
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"Incompetent Authorities"
Dealing with the "Incompetent Authorities" question: Let them take out monster/NPCs that are associated with the Cult, so it can be seen they are making progress rather than being unable to capture them and unable to bring them to justice.Gank Squads
I don't know if it is a "true blue" gank squad, because I took note of who were there.The Elves (Eight of us)that were present. 7 out of 8 of us had been PvPed before by the EE.
Sir William , Prior PVP.
Caden, Prior PVP.
Shalindra, Prior PVP.
Alicia, Prior PVP.
Sorcha, Prior PVP.There were about 3 adventurers that are level 1-3 that just tagged along.
There was only 1 adventurer who was I think level 8-9 who I do not know.The "Gank Squad" was made up about 17 individuals, 13 of which had prior PvP with the EE.
Individually, we could never defeat the EE. Is there any surprise we're ganging up?
I thoroughly applaud the EE for all the RP and everything else they've done.
The level of threat they represent can be seen by the things people will do to try and stop them.
The level of maturity they represent can be seen by the fact that the Elf, MG, RH, Lighthouse and Eastway factions aren't all dead and buried.Get out of Jail, Advance to Payday.
This is the most crucial part of this discussion. Should DMs step in to save people?This is the hardest question, because of all the underlying tensions, player anger, and IC repercussions.
Look at Sir William. Overnight, he goes from Hero to "That twat who let Zrukk go free." It develops character. But it seems rather forced on him.
Look at Szlam. Overnight, he can go from Supervillian to "That idiot who let his enemies go free." It develops character (in this case, it will also 100% get him killed, sooner or later, ironically by the people he allowed to go free.)Jack Cobble took me down with perfect ease before. I as a player would probably contrive a means to let him go free if I managed to catch him. But it is my decision. The pricetag is one I have to think about myself.
I can think of many characters with incredible storylines that got cut short. Should there be different standards being applied? Should certain groups benefit from special protections that others would look upon with envy?
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When an evil faction is just starting out, if they are noticed too early in their plot and are lower levels I believe that there may be need of some DM intervention, though preferably though something that makes sense IC however possible. However team evil needs to progress their plots quick enough where they will be noticed and then stuck into real conflict with team good. It needs to be correctly plotted out and timed.
-however maybe not- ->It seems a lot of people are worried about how team evil will come in and take over the server and then there will be nothing team good can do about it to stop them. What if team evil ever did get that strong? I think it might be kind of cool turning the tables on team good. From what I could tell, team good always triumphs in the end and team evil gets something kind of cool done but never taking over completely, so team evil is always hiding and doing secret stuff. While the good guys can stand around in plain day light and yell about and spread their words and thoughts and opinions etc. without having to worry they will be targeted by enough people in a real threatening manner.
Shorter version?– DM's may need to be supportive and intervening in the early plotting of things but characters should also have good judgement about when to kill and when to hold back, how quickly to progress a story and everything.
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A group of the Cult -attacked- the lynchmob. Not the other way around. They had provoked an attack, and they walked into what any INT 12 character would smell miles and miles away.
"Hi, we are laying a trap for you, just so you know. We're here. Please attack us so we can try and kill you."
I don't know why the EE showed up.
I pass it off to a mix of overconfidence, and being a DAMNED GOOD SPORTS.If you do not try to avoid a gank squad, (75% of which had legit previous encounters), is it suicide?
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If team evil can't be defeated by team good for a change, what's the problem. As has been said lots before, good always wins in the end, so why not instead of that unbeatable unrelenting force of good being king of the castle overall, let evil take the reigns, I think evil deserves a chance to really get a better chance at achieving the desired end result.
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Yeah….I felt like Zrukk should have been executed. It would have been nice if team good would have won a recent victory.
Sorry Brock please don't hate me :(
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I was in that 'gank squad' of 15 players, and all the while felt that it was completely artifical to be there, but to keep IC I was obliged to go along with it.
The recent attack on the elves meant that i couldnt realistically stay online and not go along with the party. And i would imagine that all members of the party would be able to level similar explanations.
As for not having any interactions with the cult, for the most part that is true also, but having had 2 of my recent characters completely blanked when they have attempted to speak directly to some of the cult to then have the statement "and you are?" thrown back at me was annoying to say the least.
I understand that the cult and their actions foster intrigue etc on the server and are a huge story which is what we all aspire to playing here. However, to create a situation where the ICness of a situation is altered and perverted for ooc reasons seems to break the 'truth' of the server.
I can see that any attempt for the Dm team to intervene could be misinterpreted as favouritism, but would think that if the faction is viewed in that good a light by the DMs then a jail break or a disruption while the convoy of characters attempted to bring the cultists back to the city would have been a better way of achieving that aim. Easy to say in hindsight i know!
Personally i would not object to a post from the DMs in the rumours section about the cultist sym[pathisers causing enough of a disruption that members of the cult were able to escape custody, whether they did in game or not. That would provide an experience for those people that were able to go chase the cultist npcs and fullfill their character roles whilst allowing the pc cultists to escape and carry on their nefarious deeds.
All in all the situation has resulted in a poor response from many, myself included, and i feel that the whole thing would have been better if the cult hadnt responded to such an obvious ambush. IC respnse and OOC actions differ there though i guess!
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@Kreyla:
"Incompetent Authorities"
Dealing with the "Incompetent Authorities" question: Let them take out monster/NPCs that are associated with the Cult, so it can be seen they are making progress rather than being unable to capture them and unable to bring them to justice.This is a very good idea, actually.
@Kreyla:
There were about 3 adventurers that are level 1-3 that just tagged along.
Are you including me? Because I just came along to meet the baddies.
Yeah….I felt like Zrukk should have been executed. It would have been nice if team good would have won a recent victory.
I disagree with this enthusiastically.
Evil won consistently, but they also usually let people go.
Good has won now, it's only fair the favour is returned. -
Aren't letters of marque meant to limit gank squads? Not to mention the requirement for a DM to be present during PvP.
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I was wholey thinking i was dead…but the Mage's guild just left me alone afk for 30mins then I logged and played LoL...
I think it was their fault not to kill him in the first place. I was fine with it since they already had all our loot.
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@Vrugor:
If team evil can't be defeated by team good for a change, what's the problem. As has been said lots before, good always wins in the end, so why not instead of that unbeatable unrelenting force of good being king of the castle overall, let evil take the reigns, I think evil deserves a chance to really get a better chance at achieving the desired end result.
If evil can rule without forcing others into doing stuff, fine by me. However, if evil being victorious means newer adventurers cannot do their quests just outside the city without being robbed, mugged, their loot taken, and humiliated, then no, evil shall not be on top.
Forcing people into PVP, by finding them and beating them up, while it may spark conflict, is not something I enjoy.
About 6 years ago, there was a group of elves. The most functional evil council. The first in fact. During a meeting, they were attacked by team evil. We were quickly defeated, within seconds in fact.
It was due to our two leaders also being harpers. They were asked to convert, and when they refused, all 11 elves present were killed and sent to the fugue.
I had never ever met any of the people there before. I had not even seen half of them logged in before. Yet I ended up in the fugue.
Being forced into stuff, isnt fun. Especially, if the only way out is to cover in fear, or end up in the fugue.
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@Kreyla:
"Incompetent Authorities"
Dealing with the "Incompetent Authorities" question: Let them take out monster/NPCs that are associated with the Cult, so it can be seen they are making progress rather than being unable to capture them and unable to bring them to justice.This. Less direct PvP is better. Both sides should try and leave some room for the other to act against it without turning it into who-can-gank-who-first. (eg.
I don't agree with the notion that if a character is trying to capture you, they're on the FD menu. I often feel like applying this tit-for-tat ruling when playing a criminal but it is a poor way of handling the situation in my experience. If there are people wanting to try and stop you then give them something to try and stop that isn't you, something that they can strive to reach before you which won't mean an end to your character if they "win", even if it will be a victory against you.
There should be no "if they play rough, so will we". If anything i'd say DMs should intervene only where one side adopts PvP too soon and too harshly. If a criminal or other character is sparking conflict etc. without direct PvP, then he shouldn't be ended with it - eg. a bloodstone smuggler who doesn't kill people. If they are actively engaging in PvP and crippling their rivals by taking more than a token souvineer from them or more than required to progress their plot - official uniform/whatever - then it makes little sense to make them appear untouchable.
In summary:
-It's better if you can avoid direct PvP, and if you can provide people a means to oppose you without direct PvP.
-In my opinion DM intervention should be reserved for when the victim hasn't been riling up the opposition with excessive PvP themselves, to the point that they feel their only option is to directly attack them. -
I was wholey thinking i was dead…but the Mage's guild just left me alone afk for 30mins then I logged and played LoL...
I think it was their fault not to kill him in the first place. I was fine with it since they already had all our loot.
Actually, to be fair, I tried to question you for about 6 minutes after you were put inside the cell. You didnt respond, so I eventually left with the others.
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DMs should step in when necessary because they know more of each side of the story than the average player. They are best to judge when to maneuver in favor or against a player/faction. All the average player knows is their own side of things.
A DM wants to see an interesting story as well as help tell an interesting story. By extending conflict and not allowing PK, the DM does the server a favor by keeping intrigue alive and the players a second chance.
Don't whine about favoritism because you don't know the full story. People question me about why Talon is still alive. FOIG. There is an entirely legitimate reason IC why she lives when witnesses watched her corpse burn. It wasn't favoritism, it was because Team Slime PCs had an awesome idea and worked towards it.
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@Khamal:
Don't whine about favoritism because you don't know the full story.
I havent heard any whining.
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I believe players should regulate PvP by thinking up more creative and fun ends than "maim them" or "kill them." Unfortunately, I feel like, more often than not, Arabel's PvP isn't about creativity and fun as much as it's about who can be the biggest badass.
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There was also the "auction them off" idea.
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IMO, we need moar options to resort to in and after PvP. Auctioning into Slavery went well, why not throw in a few more achievable ideas, if prisoners are taken?
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You could try to keep them hostage or try to trade them for something, but usually that requires keeping people captive for a prolonged amount of time.
And that's considered a bad idea, AFAIK.
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Show OOC courtesy, help prolong stories… Yet ensure it doesnt break immersion, and make it consistant.
This IMO.