Charisma
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I remember back in earlier editions of D&D, there was a separate attribute called Comeliness that represented physical appearance aside from one's personal magnetism, or Charisma. So you could potentially be really personable but ugly as sin, or a pretty pretty person, but have the personality of spore mold.
I kinda miss that delineation. I always thought that it would be nifty to have factors of physical attractiveness available as a feat in 3rd Edition. You don’t have the “Comely†-
@Mr.:
@Excerpt:
…A character with a low Charisma may be reserved, gruff, rude, fawning, or simply nondescript.
I disagree that a gruff or rude character automatically has low charisma, as such qualities can come from hostile and/or uncivilized upbringings.
Interesting use of words here. I'm also puzzled as to the relevence of upbringing in this discussion. Please clarify.
It seems to me that using words like Automatic or Must be when considering the use of Stats and how they are to be applied is not helpful. The Players Handbook is careful to use may be and this reflects the fact that these Stats are all we have to reflect the myriad of human and other creature characteristics. You interpret them as you can with a pinch of salt and express your character in RP.
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How do you play "Average" charisma? Neither high or low, just normal. That would be harder to play than someone with either extreme high and low.
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What is low or high charisma or any stat' for that matter?
0 = Normal, your run of the mill, -1 shouldn't mean you're covered in fleas stinking and hated by all the world no more than +1 should mean that you're the Lords gift to all those that you meet.
As it stands I'm willing to bet that +2 or +3 strength is "normal" for fighter types and +2 or +3 is "normal" for rogue types.
Charisma is very difficult in the game world (as I believe is wisdom) to portray effectively and seems to me at least to be more heavily scrutinised than any other statistic.
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I caught an elf in the market with a description about being curvey flirting with some guy. I checked her character sheet and it said eight charisma so I covered her in flies and emoted a bunch of things about farting and drooling all over the place.
She was confused.
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I caught an elf in the market with a description about being curvey flirting with some guy. I checked her character sheet and it said eight charisma so I covered her in flies and emoted a bunch of things about farting and drooling all over the place.
She was confused.
Does an 8 charisma really mean you're covered in flies and farting and drooling? I mean it's just below average, not the depths of the world.
If I was a below average reader it hardly means I can't read a word. How then would a - 1 strength character be portrayed, unable to swat a fly?
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I suspect Cama was "assisting" the RP by showing possible effects of CHA 8.
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Eight is the minimum possible charisma that a typical human can possibly have without being supernaturally cursed.
That being said; It doesn't necessarily mean you're covered in flies and drooling, but there should be some major indication that you're definately someone that's very unpleasant to be around.
Like some guy I know named Ryan; He smells like body odor and cheese-snacks, he's overly touchy, he yells things like "Squirel!" as a come-back to insults, if a girl enters the room he suddenly gets very quiet and stares at them and a myriad of other problems.
The thing is that lots of players can't make a complicated list of interesting personality traits to display that their character has low charisma, and when they don't act like they have low charisma, and their description doesn't act like they have low charisma, I cover them in flies so at least people around them will have a clue that they're the worst possible example of human charisma.
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@Khamal:
How do you play "Average" charisma? Neither high or low, just normal. That would be harder to play than someone with either extreme high and low.
This is how I used to play my characters (and I've had a range of CHA values for the chars I've played).
6 CHA dwarf fighter - Stubborn, rude, grumpy, a typical dwarf. Easily angered and so on.
10 CHA human ranger/rogue - Shy, socially inept, easily scared/bullied
10 CHA human archer - One word, obnoxious
12 CHA human cleric - Approachable, a very slight sense of humour, not the guy you'd expect to be the life and soul of a party but not unfriendly as well, very rigid and inflexible views which he'd state bluntly.
18 CHA human bard - Flirty at the start, turned diplomat later on, able to keep calm under rather stressful situations, had a sense of humour, was very friendly and so on.
I prefer not to use physical ugliness/deformities to portray a lack of charisma but that's just my opinion and how I prefer to play the stat. Average charisma is very difficult to play, much like one of the neutral alignments (again, this is just my opinion and I find it very difficult to portray non-extremities)
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If you got 8 CHA and your a flirty elf, you better have some sort of horrible crippling social defiency to explain the flies, because if your not ugly or smelly than you better be unable to hold a three sentence conversation without insulting someone.
Obviously, I perfer flies and a face like shit.
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10 CHA human ranger/rogue - Shy, socially inept, easily scared/bullied
10 CHA human archer - One word, obnoxious
So basically a 10 (-0) )in charisma negates anyone from being nice and affable. Now I'd always seen this as your normal run of the mill easy to get on with type, half the people he meets he gets on with, the other half he may well get on with once he gets to know them. At -1 he'll get on with some but rub some others up the wrong way. At -2 he's an arsehole most of the time
Now how do we play the reverse at +1 and +2 Charisma? Is +1 is loved and admired by all and +2 becomes kinglike? +3 must surely be impossible and implausible, where is the benchmark if at 10 charisma a character is obnoxious and difficult to deal with?
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@Mr.:
@Excerpt:
…A character with a low Charisma may be reserved, gruff, rude, fawning, or simply nondescript.
I disagree that a gruff or rude character automatically has low charisma, as such qualities can come from hostile and/or uncivilized upbringings.
Interesting use of words here. I'm also puzzled as to the relevence of upbringing in this discussion. Please clarify.
It seems to me that using words like Automatic or Must be when considering the use of Stats and how they are to be applied is not helpful. The Players Handbook is careful to use may be and this reflects the fact that these Stats are all we have to reflect the myriad of human and other creature characteristics. You interpret them as you can with a pinch of salt and express your character in RP.
You're right. I should've read it properly.
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Eight is the minimum possible charisma that a typical human can possibly have without being supernaturally cursed.
I'm not sure what sourcebooks say about this, however.. We play adventurers. Heroes or villains, or something in between. Wouldn't that mean 8 charisma is the minimal score to be able to have some impact on events, rather than being completely reclusive and uninfluenced by whatever happens around us?
.. Just wondering. Maybe a commoner could have like 6 to denote how unimportant and influenceless he is.
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Also, people with 6-8 Charisma shouldn't be making sendings and successfully leading large parties of people on dangerous excursions.
County, I disagree with your view on Charisma.
10 Charisma should define a very non-descriptant person.
Charisma has little to do with how brave you are.
There's a difference between strength of mind and strength of presence.
A cowardly character would probably have low wisdom, as he would lack the will power to keep his fear in check.
But don't forget that a low wisdom character can also be stupidly brave!
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@Net:
In RL, charisma is like pornography….you know it when you see it.
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A character could have any stats you want and be a coward. People dont need a game mechanic justification of every trait their character has. A likable man, an unlikable one, a wise one, or a fool could all be cowards.
Problems only come into it when players just disregard their dump stats, like the elf who left the stat involving leadership and social grace cripplingly low (if your int was 8 you would be borderline autistic - think Forest Gump) and yet is still floating around the market throwing out flirts, and emoting about how alluring she is.
I played a paladin with a nine charisma, and was constantly emoting about how monotonous his voice was, and how strong the smell of formaldehyde that seemed to hang around him was. Now, there were a million and a half different ways to represent that nine charisma, but the important thing to do was to make sure that SOMETHING about him was impacting his ability to socialize normally.
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My views on charisma are by no means the norm nor do I think there should be any benchmarks for roleplaying. Once you start placing benchmarks it inevitably leads to expectations. You'll start expecting other players to live up to those benchmarks and this is quite restricting. It takes away from your enjoyment of the game because lets face it, players are going to find different and new ways to portray their personalities and these might, most of the time, not agree with your views of the stat.
Also, people with 6-8 Charisma shouldn't be making sendings and successfully leading large parties of people on dangerous excursions
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10 Charisma should define a very non-descriptant person.What players should or should not be doing is not for any of us to decide. However, those are your views and no one would stop you from playing your character that way (I hope).
What I was trying to do there was to simply state how I portrayed the personalities of my character and how the stat reflected that personality. It is not a perfect system, nor are there any rules governing these stats.
People dont need a game mechanic justification of every trait their character has.
This is how it should be. The character sheet and stats are there for mechanics and shouldn't dictate personalities. When players abuse this system, like playing an extremely personable character with 6 CHA or something like that, it's bound to be noticed sooner or later by a DM and they'd make sure the players know of this.
I try to play my characters, not their character sheets but also make sure that the character sheet reflects the personality to some extent (this is wholly based on my own views of the stats and therefore would be reflected differently for different players based on their own views)
The purpose of this thread, and correct me if I'm wrong lillesmurfen, was to put together different perspectives on how the various range of values for this stat are viewed and played thereby giving new(and old) players a variety of opinions. Most seasoned RPers would not find anything new here(but then again, they just might). It is not a thread meant to establish a baseline on roleplaying said stat, I believe.
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Of course there are rules. Just like you shouldn't roleplay your 8 charisma character as exceptionally likeable and charismatic, you shouldn't be personally leading a ten man party into the Underdark just because you portrayed your low charisma as "gruff".
Just like the limitation for having low wisdom is acting stupid, the limitation for having low charisma is being socially inept or unwilling.
I used to think like you until I saw my very likeable and good looking friend scream and cry and whimper because we put a tiny spider on his hand.