Paladins
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You don't understand me. Detect Evil is a mechanical ability that is (or was, and is on most servers) perfectly IC. All the "abuse" that has happened seems to have been perfectly IC. The onus to dealing with this ability lies squarely on evil.
Just because something is IC doesn't mean that it should be happening. While the ability and the abuse were IC, the problems were almost all OOC.
Good example: Just because it's IC for my murderous lunatic to go around FDing every character on the server for no reason other than being murderous and that murdering everyone is IC abuse, it kinda sucks ass and is handled OOC.
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In addition, this seems to create more DM work- now you have to watch Paladins all the time to make sure they're doing their investigative work, and send them warnings if they get chummy with evil that's pretending to be good or neutral.
It's actually less if anything. Previously you'd look at the alignment of everyone at the party, then maybe ask the evil guy if he was using PfG to block it earlier, or if he has a DE blocking item.
Now it's just a case of glancing and seeing if any party members are Zhentarim or known villains. It enables people who want to play subtle evil to do so. It prevents barriers whereby "Team Evil" and "Team Good" would rally together, taking away the certainty of each conflict. This in turn enables characters who would previously have been ostracised to push thier agenda. Overall it simply makes the server a better place.
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@Deadlock:
Now it's just a case of glancing and seeing if any party members are Zhentarim or known villains. It enables people who want to play subtle evil to do so. It prevents barriers whereby "Team Evil" and "Team Good" would rally together, taking away the certainty of each conflict. This in turn enables characters who would previously have been ostracised to push thier agenda. Overall it simply makes the server a better place.
Yeah, it helps those that would be ostracized and those who want to play subtle evil. On the other hand, it makes Paladin power loss a lot easier. It has me playing my Paladin and wondering whether I should leave a party every time one of the members puts on a dark-coloured cloak.
I see myself doing more hanging out and chatting with strangers in bars than adventuring because I'm too worried to go into a quest (or anywhere, for that matter) with someone because I'm too busy being worried they may be Evil. -
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you'd loose powers because someone in the vicinity has 'evil' written on his char sheet, but if he shows his evil nature, and you don't react properly. You are free to leave a quest in the middle of it. ;)
Of course others may be mad at you OOCly… their fault.
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@Deadlock:
Now it's just a case of glancing and seeing if any party members are Zhentarim…
True story. The replacement of DE was the Zhentarim uniform.
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Aaron gets it.
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Camazotz, didn't you just post that
"Paladins are expected to adhere STRICTLY to the paladins' code. By strictly I mean that a single violation will cause complete loss of paladinship (And a subsiquent chaotic or evil alignment shift)."
and then refer to the code which states,
"- Do not associate on a continuous basis with evil"?
Nothing in there specifies 'knowingly'. If a single one of the people I continuously associate with is Evil, but hides it too well for me to notice, then that's a single violation which causes a complete loss of paladinship.
Nothing in the code says anything about "showing evil nature", merely about "evil", without specification about it being concealed or not.
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forget about the char sheet, doesn't matter if there is evil written or not.
if he set his alignmet LG on char creation, and he eats babies, and you eat them with him because his your buddy, you'll loose your powers.
If he set it CE, but plants flowers with you and the foulest act he does is blinking when he sees twelve naked virgins, you won't loose your powers even if you… khm... allright, forget about the virgins if you are a paladin!:p
I just mean if that he doesn't hide it, but he misses to roleplay it, if you have no chance to notice. so it isn't your fault again.
(I somehow have the feeling that I'd loose my powers very soon if I played a paladin after this post. :) )
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Aaron gets it.
That said, a paladin should not wait until someone displays "evil signs" but rather begin assessing the moral character of an individual the moment they meet them, and continue to do so as long as they interact in any form or another. Paladins are not allowed to be lazy with stuff like this.
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Asking who they worship is a good start IMO.
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@Undead:
Paladins are not allowed to be lazy with stuff like this.
Hey, I want to play a lazy paladin!
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Nooooo! You beat me to it!
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"Heys guyz, instead of detect evil, let's make it detect lies. 8D"
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How about Detect Evil (paladin level + wisdom modifier) vs. Bluff, Persuade, or Perform - if they are trying to pose as something other than their natural alignment - and only if they have an IC agenda to do such.
I could live with that, but first and foremost I'd prefer that RP play the most significant role in a Paladin's judgement of character.
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What about also making it level based? Paladins get it at level 7. That will limit the number of people with it and theoretically prevent DE spam.
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I believe the key here is the evil rp it in a correct manner no chaotic evil should be able to conceal his nature unless he have bluff so he would have to show in rp so the paladin can get signs with who he is working. Then he makes his judgment.
trowns two cents in the ground
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