How Much of What Gets Rewarded
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The last few posts in /category/2, especially about being in a faction or not, brought back up something I've been thinking about: what is it DMs reward? It's adventure and intrigue, usually, but is there maybe too much reward for adventure and too little for intrigue?
I get the feeling DMs will reward an adventure more because it is more enjoyable to host/watch than dialog for most. I'm not saying they should sit and watch something they don't enjoy, but that adventure rewards are maybe too high within this context, thereby contributing to a mindset where "going out" in the broadest sense of the word (without any plot relevance) is desirable more than having a reason for it.
Sitting out an expedition for IC reasons is never rewarded; going to it despite IC aversions usually gets a magic item at the end of the road. Given that some players have a chip always on their shoulder and will actively blackball other characters and keep them from having any kind of following to do those adventures, it's an easy thing to join a faction just to keep any new characters from ever doing anything by threatening to exclude potential allies of the ones they pick senseless fights with from the DM plots. Player attitudes are another issue, but we all know those that will cause conflict for its own sake (for each of us respectively); I just think that giving huge rewards for going out and fighting is easy to grab for those with existing mechanical power (be it items, build, or followers) and is flawed; flawed not in that it rewards going out, but in that it rewards too much for a structure that gives those rewards without consideration for IC reasons.
This might get locked fairly soon, I'm just bringing up something I've been noticing: the turnout for a sending is usually proportional to likeliness of loot, not plot relevance. Is this a sign to say that there is too much reward for bashing stuff outside scripted quests for the same shallow reasons that people usually do those quests, and not enough reward for character development?
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I got lost in some ranting in the original post and forgot something I wanted to say. Loot contributes to survivability and, like it or not, visibility; in turn, you can get more dangerous tasks done and gain more helpers. As a character with no mechanical use, on a few occasions, I've noticed that only a handful of people will help you for reasons other than potential DM reward. Yes, you can pay people: I'm not angling to review the options to get out of that tight spot; I'm just asking if people think it's fine as is, where intrigue is a by-product of who gets you loot (and has means to get it in the first place) in many cases.
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I am sorry but could you make it a direct question, I am not a native english speaker as such I am finding it difficult as to what is being asked here
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I have gained dm xp as a reward for roleplaying or story related dialogues with other characters.
True they were often taking place in out of the way places on the server and this may contribute, but there are rewards for these things. Not least that those role playing events are often the precursors of the plot events that you are talking about that provide loot.
I am sure that the DM loot that is given out is proportionate to the effort involved by the players, having had 2000gps dropped into my inventory previously in recognition of the fact that i had spent all my consumables and played my characters nature to the full not backing out even when in significant danger of death. (subjective evidence i guess)
The effort placed in is noticed, if not voiced i am sure.
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I am sorry but could you make it a direct question, I am not a native english speaker as such I am finding it difficult as to what is being asked here
I speak English and have no idea what the OP is asking.
We reward THIS.
That is Intrigue and Adventure, and we define what it means there.
We don't reward sitting on your butt all day talking in a tavern and plotting something without ever accomplishing anything.
Its fine to do that if its fun for you, its not fun for us to watch. We can turn on a movie if that's what we want. This being a videogame, we want some action.
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Intrigue and character development are their own reward, which don't lead to mechanical power, usually. On the other hand, random expeditions lead to lots of loot and people will go for that more because they know it. This loot can then be used to gain the upper hand in intrigue and character development (of others), thereby making loot rewards a deciding factor in what many character do and what plots they pursue.
I'm asking: is this good, bad, or what? I'm also suggesting that loot rewards for non-plot random expeditions being so high is something that allow for this sort of thing. There are people who, may they play the game how they wish, only ever come up with 2-line posts at most, end up having alot of influence just because they "go out and find things" - the "finding" part being related to how much player interest there is, which itself is linked to how likely it is to get loot.
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To answer the link by Moloch: I'm all for that - I'm referring to events that have nothing to do with plots where a random set of +1 gear and thousands of coins is found for just chopping through some spawns. This has nothing to do with adventure and intrigue as defined there.
I'm not saying the DMs should watch something they don't enjoy; I'm saying the rewards for doing random stuff with no depth or reason are maybe too high. In other words: no need to sit there listening to conversations, but maybe think about toning down the loot on random spice events that don't push anything forward.
Edit: Edited the threat title, since it wasn't pertinently formulated.
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@H:
To answer the link by Moloch: I'm all for that - I'm referring to events that have nothing to do with plots where a random set of +1 gear and thousands of coins is found for just chopping through some spawns. This has nothing to do with adventure and intrigue as defined there.
I'm not saying the DMs should watch something they don't enjoy; I'm saying the rewards for doing random stuff with no depth or reason are maybe too high. In other words: no need to sit there listening to conversations, but maybe think about toning down the loot on random spice events that don't push anything forward.
ed.Total disagreement.
It's clear thar DMs have said over and over they want people to "randomly explore". Further, rewarding people in mechanical ways for pushing plots forward concentrates mechanical power on a "in crowd" and will be seen as furthering such, even if not the case.However - I do think that in a "spice event" it is nice to get large amounts of consumables as opposed to possibly not useful magic items. Consumbales can replace those used, can be easily split up,and also can be given/sold in starting characters. (If your share is a +1 sword, and you have one… it generally gets sold to a merchant. If your shared is 50 cure serious wounds, it can make 5 starting characters very very very happy to be your friend - or a +1 sword can make one very very happy)
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It's clear thar DMs have said over and over they want people to "randomly explore".
What happens when a given plot stagnates because people with recognition (and loot) are randomly exploring and all available players but 1 are going for their sending? Is that not an "in crowd" of already-advanced people? Is that a good thing, to favor random outings at the expense of plot outings that don't promise tons of custom armor?
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@H:
It's clear thar DMs have said over and over they want people to "randomly explore".
What happens when a given plot stagnates because people with recognition (and loot) are randomly exploring and all available players but 1 are going for their sending? Is that not an "in crowd" of already-advanced people? Is that a good thing, to favor random outings at the expense of plot outings that don't promise tons of custom armor?
You see this in a zero sum gain. It isn't.
We reward the people who are actively doing something Intriguing and/or Adventurous when we log in.
I fail to see your point, but suspect it comes down to not getting some loot for something you thought you should have–or having not gone along on a "random" event (which likely was not random if you are familiar with the plot hook that inspired it) and didn't get loot for not going and pursuing something you wanted to plot over (but which likely wasn't as interesting to the DM watching it).
Bottom line, as we've always said, we're human. We'll reward what excites us. If it doesn't, we'll find something that does to reward.
So, if you want rewards from the DMs, you just have to play along. If you want to do what you prefer instead, by all means, we're happy to hear solid suggestions on how to make more varied activities fun on CoA.
However, this discussion sounds more like a rant than a constructive dialog.
Maybe change focus?
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You're right. There was some emotion involved in there, despite the basis which I think is still partly valid. For the record, it wasn't for not getting to come on anything: it's for not getting the same rewards that people who tag along for anything that has a DM smell about it or a faction character in it, regardless of IC affiliation. In part. The other part is that my last 3 characters, none of who were in DM factions, were unable to garner basic interest for their concept either because no one cared about hearing the concept and instead used some mechanical cues to assume what it was and take a position for or against it; and most (all but one) sending for a plot expedition go unanswered while faction character plots that were weeks younger than mine had instant player support; this is not a gripe with DMs, it was player support I was after in those cases. Also, seeing people who go out and get rewarded use those rewards to actively prevent new concepts from even having players help them, just for the sake of conflict (which is inherently one-sided considering the method used). But that's something to be adressed with the player in question.
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I get DM xp. Sometimes I get stoned. With a spell, I mean, and orcs worship my char.
Then I get rescued and my rescuers share the loot.I enjoy my character on the server, adventure, intrigue or mechanical power. When I don't enjoy I usually take a break.
I reap MY reward on the server, with or without DM presence, often without DM presence. But I don't play here for DMs, I play here for the playerbase. Otherwise I'd play with a bunch of friends on the odd day of the week (which I did for a time and I enjoyed a lot).
I understand the original question, my answer is yes, often on CoA is rewarded more the "Adventure" part of the "Advenutre and Intrigue".
And I said often not always because I know of someone who got rewarded for the "Intrigue" part, sometimes, and several times I know of people who got rewarded for the pure RP, even if it didn't lead to Adventure or Intrigue directly. -
I have had rewards for intrigue, for adventure and for RP. Many have not been sought, and it is a delight when the XP is gifted without expectation.
For RP, I was waiting for a scripted quest to start and the characters to gather. My character started to tell his back story to another and we spent maybe ten minutes talking, creating, interacting while we were waiting, and then to my surprise, some XP bounces my way. I didn't talk with this other character for XP or for Gold, purely for my and their pleasure. Another example: I went into a quest, recently with two others. We were surprised by a DM spawn that was rather challenging. I and another player were taken down within seconds and the third fled. The DM decided to raise us and leave us battered and bloodied. I roleplayed this with writhing and groaning as you do, waiting for the rescue, not wanting to debase the respawn. After the rescue party arrived and gathered us up, healing (and kicking us in the ribs!) a nice little gift of a few XP for the effort.
For Intrigue, I remember being asked by a player character to go and spy on the Eclestians when they were a faction. I went forward, made a brief attempt to get in and fled as there was no real opportunity. I returned to the character who asked me to spy and told them a pack of lies, was rewarded by the commissioning character with a 100 gold or something, and again, a splash of XP arrived with a DM Tell. "You little Liar, You!" I laughed my socks off at that, but, obviously, I also gave a giggle to someone else! Thing is, I had absolutely no idea a DM was even there, until the splash of XP.
For adventure, well, everyone can tell stories of adventure and the XP gained.
The 50XP or 100XP for some roleplay or intrigue is often far more of a surprised delight than the 250XP or 500XP expected reward after a night in a DM quest. However, I can replay many RP, intrigue and adventures that I have been on that have had no XP reward.
I play on this server for the fun of interating with the characters of old friends and new. I take the XP gifts as an indication that I'm doing something that is bringing others fun. When I don't get a reward, I don't think "Where was the DM? Why didn't he reward me?" (It's always the male DMs who fail to reward me.) Rather, I think "That was some more fun I had, with friends"
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Im still unsure as to what the main question is but if it's what do i have to do to get loot and xp thats easy.
Go out and do stuff and role play with others it is truely that simple.
My current main character has some of the best loot i have ever had and i got it by staying in character and just rping all the time on quests off quests while pping peaple etc.
Play your character and forget about getting rewarded,play to have fun and you will find if you go ahead with that attitude the loot and rewards will come and you will have a blast doing it. -
Seeking reward in a virtual environment is about as worthwhile as dry humping a sofa. It might feel good in some strange way, but lets face it, you're still the weirdo dry humping a sofa.
Come here to enjoy yourself and unwind after a stressful day. Come here to chillout and indulge in some fantasy with your online buddies or shoot the shit in IRC. Seek satisfaction in real life and you honestly won't care about the validation you "might" receive here.
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There is a misconception expressed in this thread that warrants being corrected.
DM-Faction characters provide Player-support, not the other way around. We give position to players in DM-Factions because we believe they can forward other people's plots at the same time they forward the faction's agenda.
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I must have degenerated into a horrible writer since high school, because reward and gratification from DMs were touched topics, but definitely not central. My point was not coming from the fact that I was not getting DM attention, but that players who showed up to sendings of mine (that were not obvious DM events or scripted quests) was next to null. It's nice to say "go out and do things" but it's kind of pointless by yourself. In relation to this, I was saying that it seems that people who have an easier time attracting players are those who, one way or another, are known for being loot pinatas or getting frequent DM attention. I'm just reiterating this, because I feel like a ton of words were crammed into my mouth on the end of the last page.
That said, it was mostly an emotional thread to make, using some examples of things I found uninteresting that attracted many players, which I felt was just for the loot involved. In other words, transferring frustration from one cause to another.
In short: thank you, Yardsale, for clarifying that. I agree with most posts here, but they're largely answering something that wasn't said.
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Iunno what y'all are on about, but I get rewarded DM xp for a multitude of things, and a lot of them have nothing to do really with DM events or anything.
Some shit I've been rewarded XP for, in the past few days:
A Duel with a Knight from another order (Netted me like, 200 xp)
LOSING MISERABLY to my double (800xp, but I lost like 2400xp, so, er…)
Giving a testimony to a Sheriff/Making Alistair Look Silly (around 150xp?)
Participating in an Epic Wolfslaying Quest (Note: Helmar Bloodchurn was worth 500 xp.)That's just stuff I'm thinking of off the top of my head. There's more but I can't really remember it at the time.
I think the spread between ADVENTURE and INTRIGUE is pretty even, all told. Although numerically speaking, it looks a lot like the DMs reward conflict more than they reward talking. I mean, by the numbers, this appears to be true.
I don't really tend to receive loot though. =\
Also, however the system is supposed to work, if you look at it purely from a gain-loss perspective (which I do not), the DM xp rewards being beneath 1k usually don't make up for the time, equipment, and levels you lose on DM stuff. There are OTHER REWARDS which make this Adventure and Intrigue thing worthwhile.
My formula is;
Gain most XP on the occasional scripted,
- Buffer that XP with DM xp
- Everything I lose when I get pwned in the face hard,
- Some more scripted questing,
- Some death on scripted quests which doesn't happen often anymore,
- Some DM xp from that thing I did that was cool,
And so on.
I.E.; XP-wise, scripted quests are where I gain my levels, and DM events are where I lose them. Sad, but true. Although I've died like four times and havn't lost a level yet, recently, so DMs aren't totally without mercy. I see that's changed a lot on the server from a few years ago. As long as you're not being a big mechanical baby about things, they'll normally have pity!
=3
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Ruby got 100 exp for willing stepping on a trap and callling everyone else a whimp..nuff said!
and yes… I watched the double beat the orginal soundly....
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If its the issue with people not coming to your sending, make sending in way that attract strangers or mercenaries.
I agree that adventure and exploration is needed, but I am choosy (IC) with my main on who I go out with. I will not have any issues joining any call with any of my alt who is a standard mercencary waiting at the market for the next sending.
someone makes a sending "X group will be hunting the great land shark for reagent, if interested please come" you go and approach them..why do you need reagent for..the replies comes its confidential I cannot share..you wish them well and leave..
The fact is that every ones toon is a hero and they put many hours developing his or her story. as such many players feel pissed at the fact that they are treated like plain mercenaries for doing dirty jobs.
I would only suggest making allies and helping each other..I dont see why you wont get people for your sendings