If you not in my "friends" group I don't care
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What as DMs we do not want at all are the kind of people who tell Argenta the kind of stuff he was hearing, we're here to have fun with people and keep the game world fair–not to make it impossible to level or frustrating. That wouldn't even be fun for us.
What if the people are being honest, or at least, think they are being honest? In that case, they'd be actually looking out to make the best out of the server. I know it's a very, very distant possibility, but maybe there's real experiences that lead players to say these kinds of things.
Exactly what I was trying to say. Except I wouldn't call it a "distant possiblity" so much as a distinct one.
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@--lizard-man--:
What as DMs we do not want at all are the kind of people who tell Argenta the kind of stuff he was hearing, we're here to have fun with people and keep the game world fair–not to make it impossible to level or frustrating. That wouldn't even be fun for us.
What if the people are being honest, or at least, think they are being honest? In that case, they'd be actually looking out to make the best out of the server. I know it's a very, very distant possibility, but maybe there's real experiences that lead players to say these kinds of things.
Exactly what I was trying to say. Except I wouldn't call it a "distant possiblity" so much as a distinct one.
While I do admit that all I've been doing is stomping around the forums and dropping quotes about, I'd like to clarify that I do agree with Moloch regarding this issue in his post found here; /topic/1889.
I don't think the problem is powergamers, I'll quickly mention. I simply think players who express a resoundingly negative, and outright bitchy view of the server to new players should be removed from the community, as an approach of ignoring them hasn't seemed to work. My reasoning is that they harm the server overall, as they make it less appealing to any cool, exciting new people we get in.
Any sense of "being honest" that they present is most likely an effect of not being in the right mindset for CoA. You need to think of more than just building your character and smashing quests; you need to actively go out and find intrigue. The Joker wasn't interesting for his actions alone, you know!
It's important to remember that our DMs have often asked for feedback in the past when they lay out their intentions, and it's their decisions that're final for the community. That was my meaning in plastering the whole "DMs have the legitimate say" quote about.
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@H:
the idea that there is one correct way to play and that one point of view is fit to judge
@Mr.:
The DMs are the only real arbiters of what "legitimate" means.
That's not the same statement. We don't say that there is just one correct way to play. Each DM has its own preferences within a broad range of play styles.
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I think it is much easier to meet new people here then it is in reality.
The best thing to do in both cases is, put the effort in if you care enough.
People aren't just going to come to you.
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You guys ever think that…say you're a new player and first time on this forum, you see two the top two threads in General Discussion constantly being about talking down other people and powergamers?
Where is the fun in that? I mean, why so much hate on "powergamers"? My best friends on here were/are/soon will be powergamers, including myself. (go levul tin)
Where is the fun in pointing fingers?
Why so ludicrous?
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<3
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6. Do not take risks. Dont be the one who rushes the bad guys, hang back and let others do that.
Lets face it if this was said to argenta ..argenta was playing a wizard so no ac low hit points..it is in fact sound advice but i think it should be put into context.
Don't take risks on this quest they can kill you in 1 hit.
Don't rush into combat you don't have the ac or hp for it stand back and do magic stuff buff the line throw attacking or disabling spells at them,let the others that are combat types run in.Now if it was said in this way it's not bad advice it just helping a player new to the server survive longer than 5 mins on a scripted quest.
Most statements can be taken out of context and when they are edited or written without knowing when or why it was said.
The others i disagree with but point 6 can be good advice to a new player when put into the correct context. -
In all honesty we shouldn't be so harsh with those who have given Argenta those advises. I don't think they are acting in bad faith. I simply believe they are players who have had experiences that have led them to believe what they wrote. Remember, after all, they were trying to help Argenta, not to drive her away from the server, else they would have left too. Not everyone masters nwn mechanics, and not everyone masters the mechanics typical of this server, so if you read through the points Argenta wrote you can see where they come from (My first character struggled to buy a simple healing wand, didn't know where to buy even common things, and was oblivious to the presence of fed-ex quests)
1. Never go on explorations. If its not paying, and providing you direct benefit, its nothing but a money drain, and will likely get you killed multiple times, likely with not even gratitude involved as well. Stick to paying quests with known rewards.
He probably went on a few exploration that ended badly. We cannot deny explorations are dangerous, and for a player who struggles a whole week to maybe earn 200 coins, losing them all, and all his stuff, and half his levels cause a stone giant spawns on him can lead to this mindset. We shouldn't slap him for thinking like that, we should explain him how to survive, to bring scouts along, to avoid certain places until he knows he can face what lurks there. We should bring him along on expeditions that are fun, letting him understand how much more interesting they can be, compared to scripted quests, because they are always NEW.
2. Join a faction. Without a faction, you are pretty much limited to a minor role in anything that goes on, and will be treated like dirt, no matter your contributions, by anyone in a faction.
This as well. And in a certain way, it is the same thing the DMs say. You always say to join a DM faction because being in that position helps furthering one's goal. Because so you have NPC support, people will consider your weight, and so on. And the first part of what he says is right. If you are not in a faction, better say if you don't have a group, people you involve in your fun, people you share the awesomeness with, you will never accomplish anything. The second part is wrong, because I know everyone out there would be madly happy to have the chance to form a group, even if in a faction The fact is I believe the one who gave this advise had a bad experience, maybe he tried to do something and nobody cared about him cause he was a mister nobody. Then someone from a faction arrived, everyone started to listen to him, and all he got from this was a lot of grudge.
3. Get to as many DM events as you can, you get the best things from them.
This one I do not agree with. Jumping on DM quests feels so bad, and so out of character that everybody will notice it, and avoid you (expecially the DMs of said quests) since there on. I agree you "get the best things from them", but you must remember the spots on said quests are limited, and if you go, sometimes you take the place of someone else, preventing them from enjoying them. For the same reason DMs tend to spread quests across all timezones, if you happen to be in a lot of DM quests you should leave the place to someone else. The best advise is to work to CREATE such DM quests. That way you will really get the best from them.
4. Avoid ever doing " Insert deathtrap quest here" Unless you have " insert power combo of classes here " Not worth the risk.
Again, this is a player who struggles to survive, and who ended up losing everything in one of those "deathtrap quests". As I said, I remember my first character. I never had more than one thousand coins, no magical item, and a single quest gone wrong could have meant losing everything. If you play a whole week to buy a single healing wand, and then you waste it all because you wanted to try an unusually done quests, it hurts. It hurts even more if you die, lose your stuff, respawn to get it back and die again. He writes "Not worth the risk". Clearly, for him, quests are a simple matter of risk compared to the reward. The fun he's having meanwhile is secondary. This is what has to change. This player shouldn't be considered a "bad" player, just one that is on his first step on CoA. Show him how to survive, and everything will come from there. Make him understand that the fun he is possibly having is the goal, and not the wand he's been working to buy, and his whole mindset will change. Maybe he will cease farming quests cause he does not care about that wand anymore, and he will move to the next stage, learning that doing quests over and over gets stale after a while, and he will look for something better, going out to explore the server and involving people in the process. Just telling him he's a bad player cause he struggles to survive, and tries to help another player to do the same, offering him that little insight he has gained through his past experiences, seems wrong.
5. Get used to the fact that new people are outsiders, and are treated as such.
Just plain false.
6. Do not take risks. Dont be the one who rushes the bad guys, hang back and let others do that.
Always the same reason.
Bottom line is, I believe those that gave these advices are players who haven't been able to gain the best from CoA so far. But they have tried to help Argenta offering her the best advices they had, that are a result of the experiences they had. After all, these players are still here, playing CoA, even after all the bad experiences they clearly had. So either they like this server or are complete masochists.
My 2 cents
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I happen to agree with argenta… as I've experinced it all sadly enough
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In all honesty we shouldn't be so harsh with those who have given Argenta those advises.
Nonsense, they're obviously losers who deserve ostracism. This has been stated clearly, and is an implicitly active DM policy;
These kinds of players are absolutely no fun to interact with, or DM for. We ignore them. We don't grant them favors.
I've denied applications, stopped running plots, and entirely avoided the people who send me these Tells. Its a very good way to get yourself black listed by the DMs for just being a jerk with a bad attitude.
The question isn't how we should approach these players, they're clearly unwelcome. So, as said before, the question is just what to do with those people.
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How about we ostrasize people who call others losers just because a DM gave the impression it's alright to? Well, because then they would make a thread with this same topic at heart.
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I can't believe this is even still being discussed. This thread has gotten incredibly off topic.
In regards to the advise you're all arguing over all the DMs will have the same opinion;
@Moloch:Complete morons gave you this advise. Don't listen to it.
I'm locking this thread now, mostly because it's getting hostile. Chill out people.