Community Transperency on DM Decision
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I don't know who can argue against more transparency… I'm kind of curious about how many people get banned here.
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I am curious as to why some people get banned as well. I found out about this Arabel through a close friend who had played here a year or two ago. (Arabel is actually the only reason I bought NWN, but I digress) Anyways, before his banning he hadnt played for a period of time, a month or two, and when he logged back on he was banned from Arabel. He is a close friend and I know he isnt the type to exploit or do anything of the sort, needless to say he contacted the DM team about his banning and the response he got was basically "You know what you did wrong" with no real explination what so ever.
I think the DM team here makes an awesome community and does a steller job. But with NWN being a dying game, I think more warnings need to be issued then bannings to keep people around and comming back. Wasnt the server 55/55 a year or two ago? We need not ban what could be great RPers and additions to the server when some other form of punishment can surely be found for wrong doings?
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I am curious as to why some people get banned as well. I found out about this Arabel through a close friend who had played here a year or two ago. (Arabel is actually the only reason I bought NWN, but I digress) Anyways, before his banning he hadnt played for a period of time, a month or two, and when he logged back on he was banned from Arabel. He is a close friend and I know he isnt the type to exploit or do anything of the sort, needless to say he contacted the DM team about his banning and the response he got was basically "You know what you did wrong" with no real explination what so ever.
I think the DM team here makes an awesome community and does a steller job. But with NWN being a dying game, I think more warnings need to be issued then bannings to keep people around and comming back. Wasnt the server 55/55 a year or two ago? We need not ban what could be great RPers and additions to the server when some other form of punishment can surely be found for wrong doings?
I'm inclined to agree. Ban for the most severe offenses, warning/alternate punishments for lesser.
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One thing missed.
You do get banned/character vault emptied for being RP Police. That covers everything from…
1. Telling people they can't do XXX because NPCs are present.
2. Telling people (who play an YYY) how a YYY is normally played.
3. Having unsolicited discussions with people about their characters.You're not supposed to tell people they are doing things wrong, no matter how much you feel it is so. It is not your place nor your position to do so as a player. Screenie and post to a DM.
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One thing missed.
You do get banned/character vault emptied for being RP Police. That covers everything from…
1. Telling people they can't do XXX because NPCs are present.
2. Telling people (who play an YYY) how a YYY is normally played.
3. Having unsolicited discussions with people about their characters.You're not supposed to tell people they are doing things wrong, no matter how much you feel it is so. It is not your place nor your position to do so as a player. Screenie and post to a DM.
Regarding no1. While no player has any business telling another player how to play their character, I dont see anything wrong with telling another player that they need a dm present to perform certain things. Such as pvp infront of npcs. Making death threats/blackmailing a sheriff in the sheriffs tower, or in general doing something where a dm is needed to make sure the environment responds as it should. In cases such as these, I think its only reasonable to send a pm to another player, and tell them that before they play out their intentions, they need to grab a dm.
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When I first started playing here, I transferred items to get my cleric a full plate.
A DM took me to the private area, turned into a huge black dragon and explained very politely what I had done was wrong and not in the interest of the server.
The time the DM took to explain it made me want to play here more.
I then did something really stupid, died with one character, came across the corpse of my dead one with my next one, and took all the things plus corpse to the morgue, triggering cheat scripts of course!
I was told this would result in a ban if I ever touched anything any of my other characters had again.
So, yeah, DM's warn, especially with new players.
I asked once why someone I knew was banned, and was told DM's don't typically answer questions regarding other players bans. I still don't know to this day, the player in question gave me an answer that sounded ridiculous, which I knew was pure fiction instantly.
As for a forum listing all this stuff.
No way. I agree with Tormite on this one totally.
I think it should be enough to publicly state that if you were a friend/whatever of a banned player, and want to know why they were banned, you can ask a DM, and they will give you a short, succinct, but detailed enough account of what happened, and that will be that.
Of course, if many many people ask, it could take up a bunch of DM time, and we don't want that….
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+1 to bablefish. The DM's I believe do a good job with warnings. Like him and a lot of other people, I got in trouble for character transfering. I wasn't banned though, just had a talk with a DM as to why it wasn't okay. He also told me where I could review any of the other rules so I would know what's okay and not okay on CoA.
I'm more then fairly certain that the DM's know more or less who the trouble makers are anyways. I also saw the "too good to be true" thing. I myself am guilty of doing some of those things though there was no indication as to it being "too good to be true." I'm not neccesarily saying make a thread, but some way to communicate things like that weither on the forum or IG would be nice. (Like using a restoration with a parasite item for example.)
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One thing missed.
You do get banned/character vault emptied for being RP Police. That covers everything from…
1. Telling people they can't do XXX because NPCs are present.
2. Telling people (who play an YYY) how a YYY is normally played.
3. Having unsolicited discussions with people about their characters.You're not supposed to tell people they are doing things wrong, no matter how much you feel it is so. It is not your place nor your position to do so as a player. Screenie and post to a DM.
If I see the player breaking the rules I'll definately talk to them first about it, preferebly by referencing links that explain the rules. I'm not gonna start an argument over tells with anyone, but a little warning and reasoning can go a long way.
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When I was still a youngster on CoA, I transferred items from an older pc to a newer one. Suddenly I saw Teph and he asked me "Did you get everything?" I said "Yes, why?" Teph sent me to the fugue, explained the rules to me, and informed me I was going to have my character vault wiped.
A year or so later, I couldnt understand why I couldnt get my applications approved, and I was informed I metagamed too much. Not enough for any punishments, but that before I could get a pc approved, I should stop it.
I have played here for… 6 and a half years now. And despite everything I have never ever heard of the dms actually being unfair, and unapproachable. i have heard alot of accusations, but when digging deeper I have always become wiser on the subject.
In short, we as a community need to trust the dms. If we dont, then there is little point in playing here. The dms have run this place for what.. 8 years now? I have been here for six and a half. Trust the dm team. No extra forum is needed. If you have issues, take it up with the people you need to speak with. Hells, despite popular belief, they give fair and honest answers. Stay polite as you should in ANY dialog between yourself and other people, and things run smoothly.
In short, trust the dm team. Trust that they do not ban needlessly. Trust that what goes on behind other screens isnt unfair. Trust that they arent calling you names behind your back, or being dicks because they can be. If you have a serious problem with a certain dm and you feel you cannot talk with -said- dm, then go to another, stay polite, be honest, and things will work themselves out.
That goes for bannings, if you feel you arent getting enough drops of a dm quest or the risk /reward ratio wasnt proper, if you feel Deadlock is a dick when he is trolling irc, or Moloch eats babies... Talk to them, politely and honestly.
That I suppose, is all i had to say on the matter. Things work well as they do now. But, try talking to the people who you have trouble with. It usually works quite well.
-Olouth
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He is a close friend and I know he isnt the type to exploit or do anything of the sort, needless to say he contacted the DM team about his banning and the response he got was basically "You know what you did wrong" with no real explination what so ever.
That is very unlikely. We're always very clear with people.
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Dicipline in private
Fire in publicAdding shame to a player on TOP of the corrective punishment will only bring resentment.
However- if a player is banned, there is no reason to withold the reason for the ban. That player won't be coming back. And the rest of the players need to know the reasons (in general terms) so they understand that the DMs are impartial, that the DMs do watch what is going on, and that certain behaviors will not be tolerated.
For example… A player finds a new fixed quest and runs thru it-- and finds an area that spawns an endless supply of 1 hit point monsters. That player is overjoyed, because killing these critters gives him 200 XP per kill. Later... a DM sees this player (who is now level 18) and says "This is obviously an exploit. I am taking you down to level 3, and if you do not report exploits in the future, you may be banned. Do you understand?"
Now -- that was a private occurance-- that player will continue to play. It will be assumed that if the player goes around badmouthing the DM about the punishment he recieved, then the DM will end up banning him.
As for the bans: Notifying the other players with a simple statement like
"Player DeathXmas is now banned from CoA for his repeated use of profanity and vulgar hate speech. Out of Character racist remarks, sexual harrasment and profanity will not be tolerated in the game. Especially when they are out of character personal remarks to other players."I understand that certain behavior is bannable, even on the first offense. Perhaps notifications like the one above will help the players better understand that DMs are level headed and fair.
Bans are nasty business. A necissary and difficult decision that is not taken lightly. I am glad that the DMs use it as a last resort.
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DMs have come a long with regards to punishments towards players tbh. Though to be fair you guys can get it unfairly wrong sometimes, for instance a friend who was almost banned because some hacker used/faked his IP to be the same as my friend. CoA also has a ridic amount of hackers it's unreal, I've seen the market full of dead bodies about six of seven times in like the last 2years and I don't even play here properly.
Communication is also a p big thing, all the people I know who have had bad experience with CoA have been punished and then straight after told what they have done wrong rather than visa versa or a first warning type thing.
I may be wrong…I will find out when I xfer items tonight.
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One thing missed.
You do get banned/character vault emptied for being RP Police. That covers everything from…
1. Telling people they can't do XXX because NPCs are present.
2. Telling people (who play an YYY) how a YYY is normally played.
3. Having unsolicited discussions with people about their characters.You're not supposed to tell people they are doing things wrong, no matter how much you feel it is so. It is not your place nor your position to do so as a player. Screenie and post to a DM.
No. 1 really isn't true. You're allowed to say to someone "Hey, you really shouldn't metagame the NPCs like that."
What you're not allowed to do is be abusive. Saying "You're metagaming the NPCs, therefore this is the worst roleplay I've seen ever" is WAY crossing the line.
Basically, just don't be a dick about it. If they ignore you, screenie and send to a DM, and we'll take over.
It's that same general "don't be a dick" thing that makes points 2 and 3 so problematic - it's not that they're explicitly not allowed, it's just very hard to do without crossing the line from constructive to dick. If you have ANY doubt about your ability to do so, it's better to just avoid the situation entirely.
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However- if a player is banned, there is no reason to withold the reason for the ban. That player won't be coming back.
Actually, this isn't the case. Bans can always be appealed, and if the player gives us an indication they've matured, they're sorry for what they did, and are ready to follow the rules this time around, we'll generally give them another chance.
The DM Team overturned a ban just a couple weeks ago. So it's not like it never happens.
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Thats about it. Don't act outraged or horrified at mistakes done by others. It translates very badly in print media unless you write very elaborately (and weirdly). Think about it.
If a player is banned, just put up a notice about it with names censored. IMO, thats more than enough.
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I'd be curious how often the DMs find themselves banning people. From newbie griefers who are just looking to cause trouble, to burned out veterans, does it really happen often enough to warrant a forum?
I'd figure simply answering questions from interested parties in private would be sufficient.
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Forum too much. Just a little transparency.
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I dont feel the DM team need to be any more transparent about bannings, I would imagine that people are only ever banned if they knowingly and seriously exploit the game mechanics in some way to massive advantage and I am quite happy to have them keep the playing field level without feeling they somehow need to justify themselves.
A forum for naming and shaming banned players with reasons seems a little much, maybe a stickied post in announcements updated simply stating the name of the player that has been banned would be enough in case your character is involved with them in some plot.
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I'd rather know the name of characters wiped/banned, so we know to assume they left or died or something.
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I don't think there needs to be a forum for explaining why you've been banned / had a character deleted.
I'm also not sure about an announcement stating if someone has been banned, it seems a little bit much. There is nothing big or clever about ''naming and shaming'', seems like rubbing salt in the wound to me!
There may need to be some form of posting if someone comes onto the forums all guns blazing telling all and sundry how lame the DMs are and stuff - it's good for the people playing to know the truth about stuff like that.