Barter and trade
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Why is it now, people only want coin for something?
It used to be, i'll give this and that for that item you have.
Now its I want coin, only coin, I'm not selling to you unless you have coin.
I made a trade and now the person is all pissed off.
Worth of an item does not mean what is sells for. Seriously people.
Let's get back to the good ol' days, an item for an item, not just souly coin.
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Why is it now, people only want coin for something?
It used to be, i'll give this and that for that item you have.
Now its I want coin, only coin, I'm not selling to you unless you have coin.
I made a trade and now the person is all pissed off.
Worth of an item does not mean what is sells for. Seriously people.
Let's get back to the good ol' days, an item for an item, not just souly coin.
Define "people". I think it's an unfair assumption to say "people" won't sell unless for coin. That said, don't expect something like a giantslayer greataxe weighing in at 20 lbs to hold much attraction for a rogue.
I'm just not seeing this trend myself.
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Unless you've got something useful to that specific person, it's hard to barter with them.
Yeah, your golden pants of sneaking are great, but my wizard really doesn't need them. Gold is something that's always useful.
If you find something worth bartering, people will barter. I know this for a fact, because there's a certain faction that I've been dealing with recently who doesn't accept gold, only items they require, in exchange for items that I required.
Don't expect to get what you want out of a trade if you're trying to trade some useless junk you've got lying around your inventory. I don't know if that's the situation, but I'm fairly certain everyone has their price, and that includes in bartering. There's not a wizard alive who wouldn't give their left nut for an actually magic staff, no fighter who'd turn down a glowing weapon, or rogue who wouldn't trade anything for those +3 golden pants of sneaking.
In summary; Find out what someone wants, go get it, then trade.
I hear Hedge Magic Reagents are popular! -
Gold is the go-to trade item because gold is universal. As KoH and Lizard have said, a rogue doesn't want your +1 greataxe, or your platemail. If you have a useful item, then bartering would work. Simply saying "I've got this <item.>It's worth a lot of gold. I want to trade it for that <item!>" is not going to work.</item!></item.>
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Gold was invented because barter only goes so far. Fivestar Merchant Marin barters sometimes, but at other times , when she needs gold to buy something she needs, that the seller can't give, she requires coin.
Its horses for courses. If you have something I want and I have something you want, lets trade. If I have something you want and you have somthing I have ten of, I want coin.
Simples!
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The thing with bartering is to have something uniquish, which is by and large DM loot on CoA (some other stuff is fairly rare and will sometimes work).
Then of course, to find someone who needs it. My guy happily trades his non-druidy extra junk for stuff he/disciples can use moreso. Fullplate isn't gonna be a huge hit, though.
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To accept an item for an item, the character you're trading with either needs to have a use for the item, or be a dedicated merchant who thinks they'll be able to sell it for a value that more than compensates for having to 1) carry the item 2) take the time to sell the item 3) run the risk of not being able to sell the item at all.
Its only really gonna be characters who are dedicated merchants who'll accept a barter for an item that they personally can't use themselves.
That's why, as Lamancha mentioned, Fivestar Merchants sometimes accept items for items, because they already take the time to sell items, so its not as troublesome for them to accept another item if they believe it will sell.
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Fair enough, but what about trading gems in exchange for gold, gems are highly valuable. Yet I have a hard time trading them as well, since everyone assumes the "sale" price is how much they are worth.
Like,
Player: "Hey thats a neat (+1) long sword I'll trade you this diamond for it."
Merchant: "nah, I need coin." "plus I can only sell the diamond for "x" and the item costs "y"
Player: "But the gem is worth the amount for the item."
Merchant: "no coin, no item"I'm not trying to bitch, I'm really asking, why isn't this implemented more?
I come across more gems than anything, and seeing that some are worth alot of coin, PC mercahants should except them in trade, but don't because the gems don't sell for what they are worth.
Opinions?
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Sale price is how much they are worth, i'm afraid. The same as everything else you barter which is not directly useful to the recipient - however much it can be sold for (to a PC generally), that is how much it is worth.
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As long as there is no way to change the NPC's buying and selling prices you will just have to accept this as part of how the engine works.
On CoA, quests already give massive amounts of GP at levels 1-6 and more often than not you don't have to spend more than maybe ~70 gp worth of healing, assuming you don't have any friends along willing to cure you.
Just be conservative and save up; and make friends- friends, allies, even evil overlords will more often than not help you out with equipment, gold and supplies. You'll find it much harder to make a profit on your own, but it can also be done.
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I sell for coin, and barter for items, and a mix.
Last night I traded 2 scrolls for 1. In the past I've taken partial payment and held an item for collateral til the balance was paid. I've also taken partial payment and items in trade.Just depends on the buyer, the seller, their relationship, and the situation as a whole.
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Depending on the situation I'll barter or ask for coin. I think you've just been unlucky.
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I bartered some hedgemagic components for some wands that a crafter could make. That was a good trade. I got something worth somewhat more than the coin value I would have had to spend to "Buy" the wands, and the crafter, because his crafting costs are lower than his selling costs got the hedgemagic component cheaper than he would have had he paid in coin.
Win-Win. Barter is only useful when you have something I want and I have something you want. I cannot trade gems for wands, therefore gems have low value to me. I can trade some of my goods for wands if the crafter is willing. Wands are what I want, goods are what the crafters often want. It works!
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Depending on the situation I'll barter or ask for coin. I think you've just been unlucky.
This. I think you have just been unlucky. Some players will only want gold, others may want to trade for items if the items in trade are interest to both. If one player does not have interest in the items, then its obvoius gold is the next best thing.
In your example, the player wants gold clearly and its more a hassle for him to go sell the gem he clearly does not need or want.
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I only accept the bloodstones fashioned out of souls of unborn in barter.
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Player: "Hey thats a neat (+1) long sword I'll trade you this diamond for it."
Merchant: "nah, I need coin." "plus I can only sell the diamond for "x" and the item costs "y"
Player: "But the gem is worth the amount for the item."
Merchant: "no coin, no item"I'm not trying to bitch, I'm really asking, why isn't this implemented more?
I come across more gems than anything, and seeing that some are worth alot of coin, PC mercahants should except them in trade, but don't because the gems don't sell for what they are worth.
Opinions?
Find a gem crafter (me for example) who has some use for gems.
Gems, jewels and items in general aren't a good substitution for cash for three main reasons:
1- coins have no weight
2- there's a transformation cost from item to coins (i.e. a gem worth 1000 is sold for 200)
3- and you can't use items to purchase stuff getting "change" back from the NPC trader (i.e. can't use a 1000 worth gem to buy a healing kit without suffering a loss due to point 2) -
Then items should be sold for their "sell" price, not the market price, cuz we are not using market price for worth.
If an item's worth is the selling price. Balance is an issue, and an unfair economy is all i see.
there's a transformation cost from item to coins (i.e. a gem worth 1000 is sold for 200)
Then gems should sell for more of their worth, exchange rate is -way- to high. 1000 coin gem should get you half, maybe a third.
Again, not compaining, simply looking for answers.
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Any traded price IS a market price.
By definition "market price" is what you get when you go and sell it on the market. What someone pays for an item.
An example: what's the real market value of a +1 sword? You can have a comparable: make a MW sword (or buy one, but still you'll have price differences between the two) then enchant it (either you enchant it yourself or you'll have someone who'll do it for you, and again you have price differences). However its market price is what you get for it when you sell it. Be it 50 coins or 3000 regardless of how much was the price to obtain it.
Problem of CoA market is liquidity.
You have "liquidity providers" who are NPCs merchants who buy at low prices and sell at very high prices.
PC Merchants should have buy-sell rates better than NPCs'.
So there is your answer:
- if a good is sought then a PC merchant/buyer steps in and you get the juicy amount of money (or barter item equivalent)
- if a good has no market, you get to deal with NPC merchant who offers a disgusting low price if you sell or high if you buy.
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I don’t see an issue to be debated to be honest.
Gems are worth what they are, people would much rather have the gold that they will ultimately transfer everything into anyway. Gold is universal in the server, from the bedine in the Anauroch to the goblins under the City – they all accept gold.
If you want to use gems as a new currency it will probably have to be worked on in game and I can only see it existing between players. For everything else there's Mastercard.