Ideas for immersion/intigue/player tools
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I wanted to start up a conversation, mostly for myself, about some of the following topics:
Purpose:
- Immersion, what changes could be made to make the world seem a little more immersive?
- Intrigue, what could be added to the server to allow for increased intrigue?
- Player tools, what could be added to allow the players to have better tools to allow them to handle things IG themselves and promote a deeper and richer world?
- Keep within topic (this is a general thread rule)
Rules:
- Don't post crap about changes that just benefits your character or your particular faction/player group, this is a discussion to try and examine ideas that could make changes for everyone.
- Don't post comments, positive or negative, about other people's ideas. Just stick to your own, that way the thread can stay on track and not get derailed. It's meant as a spitballing/brainstorming exercise to generate ideas, so don't go around saying just "not going to happen" or "it's already in game" (if a comment is going to be made by a DM a little reasoning will be given). This goes for DMs too >_< Do feel free to propose alternative suggestions or expand on other people's suggestions as your own.
- Don't trash the thread either, if you don't have an idea to put down don't comment.
Examples:
Immersion: NPCs being more mobile, some general life within them.
NPCs with dialogue that DMs can insert into them much like the sending system, using say the last five bits.
More minor updates to the server or a system by which the positions of NPCs can be tweaking using DM tools that is persistent, allowing on the fly changes to represent minor changes within the server.
Randomly appearing explorable areas.Intrigue: A DMless scripted plotline containing lore, loot which requires multiple levels of characters with different dieties, alignments, races, skills and feats in order to see the completion to. Some areas should have scripted permadeath with heavy OOC warnings about the risks involved. Reward for completion of the plotline should be heavily significant.
Player Tools: Certain ranks of factions being able to deploy ("request the aid of") a small group of associated NPCs in none quest areas to protect/show support of different activities. Would allow the Militia to say hold a training day and post a few NPCs around. These NPCs could be set up to have no AI, means of combat or 1 HP to prevent them from being abused.
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Immersion:
To me, Immersion comes from not bringing OOC stuff IG. We as players should be MUCH better at not turning every encounter into an OOC shit storm against one another. An example (Ill remove names so no one feels hurt), was a simple confrontation in Maleens spire. A militia private, wanted to bring in someone for questioning. The private’s orders were clear; this person has broken the law.
The person who was brought in for questioning, turned the situation ENTIRELY OOC immediately, asking the private to stop, because said individual wanted dm oversight. The reason? “My connections to npcs would surely make people around us react differently.” Rather than letting the character be arrested, placing a note in the faction forum “My character was very publically arrested today, in case my lord wants to react”, to which a dm when they had time could have come to their rescue, they turned a simple interaction (there was no death on the horizon) into a situation where 10 other people were forced to not react how they would IC.
If we as players become better at “letting the story progress”, rolling with the punches, and trusting that the dms will make certain the npcs react, the immersion will also come. Right now, all too often the game feels like an American football game. 30 seconds of action, 10 minutes breaks, 20 seconds of action, 5 minutes commercial (ooc) breaks.
That said, dms have a responsibility to not bring OOC shit IG, not abuse the shout function for OOC banter, and not use the pause tool as much as they do. I have as of late often logged off, because one dm ran a quest for 5 players, yet the 15 others were forced to listen to shouts, and to have our game paused constantly.
I do not mean to sound prickish, as it is not THAT big a problem for me, but it would help a bit.Intrigue: This is the big one for me. My first… 8 years or so of playing CoA, I always felt like I only saw 10% of the story. This was because I always trusted that there was a Major storyline that slowly progressed, and to which 90% of all dm plots were tied into. The War Wizards felt mysterious. The location and activities of the Harpers felt mysterious. The name “Unseen Hand” was only whispered. Then it seemed to vanish, everything became one shot events, dms doing their own plots, the plot wheel STOPPED! It really did. Server lost most of its feeling of progression, for years, NOTHING changed.
Then V5 started, those mysterious bedine npcs started showing up. I was immediately hooked! Major storyline, back in business. Plebian Court, Hardcastle, ARE THEY THE SAME? Who is the Citizen? That seriously kept me up at night sometimes. The server started to have depth again. The OOC rumors I heard years after the Court vanished, the tiny peak into the stories behind, seriously left me drooling, and I saw perhaps 3 %.
My point is, that secrets, and a feeling of mystery is to me how we ensure intrigue on the server. If everyone just guesses “Oh, Olouth is doing another Harper, we can gank him by their headquarter, which EVERYONE knows where is”, or “I am not going to listen to Verks persuasion, because we all know he is a zhentarim spy, because the zhentarim faction posted stuff with his account”, there is no sense of intrigue.
I want more secrets, like precisely what the Red Harts in Black tabards were charged with guarding. I want more secret EO bases of operations. I want War Wizard prisons, I want Hardcastle to actually be a rebel, I want every faction to have a number of secrets and storylines, which Pcs, as they advance in rank are slowly notified of. If you dms need advice on how to do it, look at the Varlets. I am pretty sure the dm who made them is a player again.To summarize, if there is nothing behind the veil, if there is no, slowly progressing narrative (not too slowly, because then we all die of boredom), no secrets earned in the factions as you rise, then the server is flat, and pointless. Ideally, every faction should have at minimum 1 door, with something behind it that pcs cannot unlock.
Player tools:
Here, my only suggestion is to lower the standards for promotions in factions, and allow players more power to blow shit up if they so choose. If we promote a pc to warden, or Seneschal of a noble house, and he fucks it up, so be it. -
Bump, people might notice I am a DM again and I am listening to ideas of how to make the server more dynamic and interesting.
Good ideas will be brought up to the Dm team championed by myself. I have always been a proponent of giving players the ability to do things and change things however never been a supporter of self interested motives. Looking for ideas that will help grant you the players to tell more stories and to achieve grand goals without the need for a DM or with very limited DM involvement.
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Given I'm on a mobile I'll keep this brief, but something I would LOVE to see is areas that are full of puzzles, mysterious areas that may hold a server-shattering secret. Obviously this puzzle should be extremely difficult.
EfU has some things like this that just make me salivate. Off the top of my head two things immediately come to mind. The Enstehung puzzle and the central station doors.
Enstehung has been solved by a small handful of people ever and they've been sworn to secrecy over what they've found, and the central station has never been cracked to my knowledge.Imho, player-accessible secret areas like this just add a beautiful layer of immersion and intrigue like literally mothing else.
We have one such area in the Lair of Temptation but I'd love to see more!
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Disclaimer: The following are ideas based around the character I'm currently playing, as being immersed with a certain concept helps me see what the world is lacking. I apologize in advance if these ideas sound self centered.
Here goes:
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Renaming tools: Tools, to a certain extent, allow players, like smiths to name/describe items they make, giving said weapon a cool flavorful twist and not just a generic "Steel Sword 10102".
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Access to rumors: Allow players to pay NPCs to spread a rumor of their own in game for a certain period of time.
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A Treasure creator: A player could target a certain, public spot, which would spawn a persistent storage and create a map into the players inventory. A player could then stuff things into the storage and allow others to find it without them being present.
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Plant tool: Allow players the ability to plant stuff on other players. I know Zool said it's pointless to have the tool if people would get the message of receiving the item. But I disagree.
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The Pit Patrol: You know how you talked about giving factions quests of their own that they could do with other players? This would be perfect way to get some purpose for the Pits and allow Guard PCs to involve players, and possibly even use it as a penance for petty, low level criminals, by forcing them down into the pits to mine while the PC guard fought off whatever critter would come their way in the special area. Making the penance of a criminal act to be completed in the form of a quest in the pits.
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You forgiven because all of these things can be applied to anyone and it was pretty damned general :P
- Could be achieved via anonymous messenger boy sending and .history, however I see what you're getting at
- Something like that already exists and has been for years, not available to players for general use then or as of this time
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Faction Based Rumors: Allow NPCs of a certain faction to speak rumours relevant to the faction. Example: Private Dudebro (PC) speaks to NPC guard, guard mentions that crime has been higher in the citadel since Lhal took over. Then we can sprinkle Tammarast NPCs around the city that tell about how their current pcs are doing shit. PCs can control the rumors via a special web tool on their forums perhaps.
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Better diseases for PCs to spread via the contagion/poison spell. Possibly use StrifeAndDiscord's new 'on death' system to allow infected npcs to 'explode' and spread poison and death to their fellow npcs?
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A player tool system that lets them control summons, aim siege equipment, and let clerics convert other pcs to their faith.
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Potion homogenizer. Certain potions won't stack, this will replace the potion with something that does stack.
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A more intuitive alteration research system…
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Note: I do not know if any of these are possible, but they are suggestions that may lead to other ideas.
Immersion:
- Local Shout - Give the DM the ability to make a shout that only appears to those located in the area the DM is. Shout would appear in orange or purple to bring attention to it and not be the same color as regular shout
Adventure/Intrigue
- dungeons linked to specific factions. Could range from an invasion to a puzzle room that is linked to the faction history and that factions members can start up and bring characters in to face the challenge. Can be used to further the story of the faction, to offer challenges to non members, to test potential members, etc. I miss the slum invasion, except for the fact it was in a used city area. Getting out of the Broken Bottle Inn only to come face to face with a horde of rocks and black ravens was not always fun.
Tool:
- symbol stamp - spawns a placeable like the arrows or the shaft of light. Ideal for players who are creating treasure hunt and the like
- lore tags - spawns a placeable or adds to an existing placeable and insert details in the description to add lore about something. Goof for treasure hunts to leave clues around or personalize a lair. DM could have a tool to remove these as they see fit or the change could be temporary and be erased on reset?
- permanent book - the ability to "seal" or set a description permanently on paper or books. Like that when they are put in storage, they do not get erased. Would allow librarians to add books themselves to their shelves or clues lists, whatever to be gathered and stored.
more to come later, need to get back to work >_>
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- converting people to a faith would have to really be official cleric since they need app or to prove themselves and the player would need a secret option to agree to have their faith changed or not which other players couldn't see. This is at least the minimum
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Temporary Placeables: 1/day widgit that spawns a "scene" such as a campground, alter with braziers, etc, that can be used for RP purposes. Could also be used to establish a "fort" which will have mainly aesthetic value. Scenes would be individually created, and then "saved" onto a widgit, by DMs, then awarded to players.
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Temporary placeables already achieveable and restricted to areas if needed. Old code largely forgotten, going to try and work on it. Placeables would be limited to a single type per device, be restricted in area and would likely need a faction position in order to do so if Dm team agrees to reactivate the idea. I cannot say for certain myself since I am still catching up on ten years of changes and where the current Dm team wants things to go. Just noting what is possible.
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If I haven't commented on anything you have said that is not an indication of what I think of it, I have just not yet formulated a clear response yet.
Please keep ideas rolling in and remember stick to the guidelines
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Villages able to be sacked.
Village area, much like a persistent dungeon area, that can be sacked. Awards evil and/or chaotic points. Crime Scum invade the village, kill or "subdue" guards and loot the dam place dry. sends a notice for help, good adventurers come to try and help "repel" the attackers.
Just a thought. Maybe a couple of these locations. Could be a quest exploration area…
Give a PC a place go live and actually guard? Its a dangerous world outside the walls.
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Immersion
-Scrying spell, or NPC scrying, a bit like the sending. Also add items which makes a character immune to scrying, like rings of non-detection.
-LESS RAIN! Why does it has to rain all day, everyday? D:
-Quests with no combat, but not fetch quests. Traps, PUZZLES, etc. Also quests that makes sense to 'do' every once in a while even if we've done it 50 times already.
Intrigue
-Items who spawns randomly over the world, in chests, who give access to a quest which you need said item to get in. Example: A pirate's map, a love letter lost, an orb which activates and teleport your group when used with lore backing it.
-Make it more obvious about what the metaplot is via NPCs, even vendors. Sanders the chicken seller could have his speech script changed once in a while. "That orc war sure is good on the chicken sales! All those soldiers, they need to get fed, that's where I come in!"
Player's tool
These are not tools, edited SithSpawn
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@Fearsome:
Immersion
-Scrying spell, or NPC scrying, a bit like the sending. Also add items which makes a character immune to scrying, like rings of non-detection.
-LESS RAIN! Why does it has to rain all day, everyday? D:
There is a scrying spell…
Also, druids can alter the weather using an alteration. There are hints for druids to learn how in game (or were... last time I looked.)
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Since spiffy put a wish list, I won't feel as bad doing so too.
Immersion:
To me, the best time I had as a player I actually rarely saw dms. Granted, the server was new to me then, and that always adds excitement. But it was also because things seemed like (from my perspective at least) they were player driven more then DM driven. Every faction had a sub faction that was completely controlled by the players, there was a economy based off crafting and players enchanting items (we can do better then it was then on this, but still the point remains), and people seemed happy to be just playing the server as opposed to waiting for the next dm event to log on for. Whether or not this was the players fault or the DM's fault, I can't really say. But I know personally I look back over the last 2 years of me being a DM, and I wish I focused less on the giant plots and more on the things that make players log in even when a dm isn't around. Because even though I had a good time running these mega story lines, and players seemed to too, ultimately it was fleeting and in the moment as opposed to creating longevity going forward. Now that my speech is over, here's some suggestions I would make for going forward (unfortunately without my help, since I is a busy panda).Make the world seem less smooshed together
This was a big one for me when I first returned as a player for the summer before i was made a dm. I get the reasoning behind how it became this way, I really do. A shrinking player base means you want to make sure the players run into each other. But to use a silly but still fitting analogy, if you go to the party hoping for five women to come back to your house for a 5 on you orgy, you can't show up in a two seat convertible. I used to love the old five to six main map city we had, and that was when it was completely controlled and lawful. In this setting, it was even more important, because players instictively will want to battle for control over the lesser controlled parts. I did the best I could by creating the wall in old town to show progress for team good at recapturing the city, but with one map it just sorta meant nothing. So much more could have been done with the progress of the city, and really still could be, that could be completely player driven. It just needs to look like a shining beacon of lawfulness surrounded by water to the south, and chaos to the north, west and east. The way its set up just doesn't capture that right at all.Crafting
Having a system where this mineral + that ore + this type of wood makes a sword of +1, +3 vs strife and discords would go a long way toward giving players things to do ig that don't require a dm at all. And, really, the list could be endless, both in resources and things you can make from them. We sort of have that now, but most of that is so far outclassed by generic gear that it gets ignored. This should be the best stuff you can get ig, not "meh".Player owned stuff (houses, inns, castles, ect)
I'll admit, I was against this for a long time. I thought it would lead to drawn out characters to the point of boredom. But I think that with some oversite, and CoA sensibilities on how long a character should last (which in my opinion should be six months to a year, which is longer then they do now) it could actually add something to the game. Players drop characters too fast on CoA, and linger far to long on servers that have this function for my personal taste. But there has to be a balance we can achieve.PC merchant stalls
Player economy is the best economy. Lugging around loot is a pain. This to me is a no brainer.More High End adventure areas with nice loot as for rewards
you know, the biggest problem with this is getting it to the point where mortui or bane can't wtf pwn it and still be accessible to players with less mechanical skill. Personally, I think that you just go with it, make it doable with a decent group, and if players start pwning it solo you give them the smack down spice that they deserve for being a butt head. It's too good of a tool to have for players looking for something to do besides the usual quest grind and too good at getting level ranges together to simply ignore because in theory certain players could make mince meat of it alone. One of the best ways to make sure that players aren't using it to trail for xp is to make it so that the xp that the highest level in the party gets is the xp that everyone gets.A slightly higher level range
I have always thought this was the way to go, and still do. I believe in the harsh death system we have, but I think that if the soft cap were closer to 12 then 10 the server would be more interesting to a lot more people.Intrigue
The best way to create more of it in my estimation is to have players have more control over the factions, including promotions and stuff. Obviously I think that at least a few of them should still have dm oversite, but even there I think that making the players invested in the faction beyond getting loot and waiting for the dms to tell them what to do is the way to go. The team tries to do this, trust me on that one. But really, the best way to get players truly invested is to just let go and let them drive. If their actions lead to the faction failing, then it fails. No matter what it is. The best way to ensure this is to give players more control over said factions, even going as far as to be more liberal with leadership positions and faction heads.Conclusion
I truly believe that these are the solutions going forward, but I certainly don't have a crystal ball. I just think that a lot of this stuff actually used to exist on the server, and its why there used to be 40-55 people on. Not everyone who plays this game wants to run from quest to quest, plot to plot. Somewhere along the way those players were run off for whatever reason, but i think that with a little effort they actually might return. CoA sims, which admittedly I was never the type of player to really enjoy, was probably not the big evil it was made out to be. Having long standing characters that just do one thing for a few hours a week makes the world feel alive, even if they don't shake the server at the very core of its foundation.Now, a lot of dms with a lot more experience doing this then I have have totally disagreed with everything I just said over the years, so take this as my opinion an with a grain of salt. It's just what I think will turn the server back to being a player driven (and thus less dependent on dm activity for people to want to log in) server.
Happy gaming!
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Edited as I need to learn how to read the rules of this thread, if I want to post a comment not directly related to this thread I should start a new one
What Sandman did with the kobold caverns can be used as a GREAT example. He made actual areas that were rewarding in terms of resources (healing supplies!).
Edited as I need to learn how to read the rules of this thread, if I want to post a comment not directly related to this thread I should start a new one
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I need to learn how to read the rules of this thread, if I want to post a comment not directly related to this thread I should start a new one
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I am editing people who can't abide by the rules of the thread, this thread is -strictly- for suggestions and brain storming not complaints, back handed suggestions or commenting about other people's comments. I want to be able to read through this afterwards and see all of your well formed suggestions and ideas of what to do. I plan to address as many issues as I can.
One thing I am planning to work on is more content for low activity times however that is outside of the scope for IMMERSION, INTRIGUE and PLAYER TOOLS so please keep comments within those three areas only.
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Immersion / Intrigue:
I suspect i'll be getting some ire from the forum warriors for this, but I think having IC letters would be cool, in place of some of the forum letters, especially if some extra tools and mechanics can be added to them. For example, sealed letters, requiring you to use an on item property to get the message (This will tie in to the later parts). From there, to add more intrigue, if one could poison or curse letters, such that when the property is used the applied effect is given to the opener, I think that would be interesting, allowing for pranks, assassination attempts, various other good stuff.On the same note as applied poisons and curses to items, more poisons and curses available, besides just alterations. If one could select the curse they wished, and were able to also apply it to items, areas.
Also for immersion, monster dens, randomly spawning placeables in various wild areas. Potentially they would spawn monsters of a certain type at set intervals, the strength of the monsters could ramp up as it's been up longer, and have the monsters wander closer to common hubs the longer they're alive, would give people a reason to get out of the city more, provides more opportunities for counterplay, and could also be scripted to give either xp or some form of loot upon destroying the den. In theory, the weak monster would hit the city by the time the larger, more powerful ones had started spawning, so people would be alerted and possibly gathering in groups to track the nests down before it got too dangerous for low level players / non mechanically skilled players.
~ If players of certain factions or what have you could spawn these with differing destinations and compositions of spawns as well, I think that would be cool. Would allow for interesting sieges and such, but i'm not sure how well the server would handle that. Dunno.
Player tools
The idea above and allowing one to discover the reagent used in an alteration by using a tool on it. More helpful utility than really needed, but it would be nice.Various other ideas to come soon~