Just my Opinion
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Due to Olouth's topic about how the server should be handled and what things must change in order for CoA to return to the "good old days" (which i miss alot), i will try to express my own opinion.
1. As Olouth said, trolling must be stopped. There is nothing wrong with a few jokes here and there, but not of the kind that are really close with trolling.
2.Personally i do not believe there are many good factions before, as it was in the past. (It's just me though. Maybe that is because i have not recently joined to one. My last ones were: Mr.Gentles group, Order of the Black Dragons, Bhaliir, and Knights of the Road (of how that was called.) All those for me were extremely cool.
3. My previous thoughts, lead me to this one…. I am not sure if i am right or wrong about this, but when someone starts great plot- or group of their own, they "have" to die. Why can't someone start from zero and reach the top? and when he times IG come, then he will die... Like, the gifted man from the slums, whose fighting and leading skills, will take him one day to be the General of Arabel's Army. A position with benefits, among others... Or reach the ranks of Noble's and take part in Arabel's council, expressing the problems of the slums and so on.....
4. Somewhere i read, that high-level characters if not WL from the DM's, will be hanlded differently, because they bring imbalance to the DM's quests.... Why my character has to die cause he reached level 10 after so many hours of game-play? Personally a Bard, Cleric or Druid of that skills, can bring great RP, if played in the right way, or at least not abuse the server's rules and taboos.
5. Low DM-Involment in the last weeks, maybe from RL issues. Yet again, as Olouth said, there can be new recruits to the server, that will handle things and free the hands of DM's.
6. It would be a good addition, if characters could disguise themselves at some point. That includes (with the help of DM's) to being able to hide the players name, by using an NPC tool. Example: If a group of 3 PC's which are followers of Abbathor want's to ambush another player's group, which holds the great relic of Tyche.
7. There must be granted, at least to some point, more freedom to the player's that have crucial positions in Arabel's factions. If those are nto exclusive occupied by DM's and their NPC's. So, You want to improve RP around CoA? Give some high positions, to the players who strived for them with their RP and involvement in plots. Of course they should send a report to the authorized DM, who handles the "X" plot, to inform him of what happened during they were not logged-in.Well, i think that's all.... Yet, i have to say again that those are just my thoughts and beliefs. Maybe i am wrong about them at some point, maybe not!
Just wanted to say for once, what troubles me with the server.
I have no intention to judge the work of DM's, which i think it's incredible to the most matters. -
My opinions
1. Sure
2. We are working on making factions alot better. Some of the ones you listed were Player factions. Make a cool one!
3. People have risen to the top in the past, although rarely, and various ones have retired, or been made into NPCs after the player wanted to move onto a new character. Nothing is stopping what your asking for here really, though again, we are talking over how to potentially make this less rare.
4. I think you mean when we talked about higher level characters moving onto bigger better things, like creating their own faction, trying to raise an army, take over a region, or, retire from adventuring if there is little really left for them to achieve. Once youve destroyed a liche, or thwarted the plans of a powerful enemy nation, killing goblins seems kind of odd. And its always good to have new fresh characters popping up. If no one retires or dies, the whole server would be full of level 13 dragon slayers, wandering about killing a few orcs here and there. The post your talkin about wasnt supposed to say you must retire at level X, it was to encourage taking risks and moving into the activities of such a powerful character.
5. yeah, a lot of the team are currently engaged in real life, and, we havent really spotted a new candidate that wants the position recently. I guess, it would be possible to do another statement of intent, perhaps.
6. hiding names has serious game engine problems, which at one point were looked at, and I think may be possible to work around to an extent. Technicalities aside, making the system work without it being crazy exploitable, or entirely too good to be thwarted at all, is a serious challenge. I would definately love to be able to change a characters name when they polymorph or shape shift for example. There is also the issue of being able to click someones portrait in the chat bar, which brings up their account name, entirely destroying what is mostly the point, anonymity.
7. As stated above, we have been talking this over quite a lot, and Im hoping we can implement some serious change that will allow what your asking for here, as I personally really like the potential it has. -
I will first state that there is no intent to offend any one in the worlds written here and the input is given in order to try and change things for the better.
I have been discussing this matter few times with other players, which will remain nameless of course. With all the love I have for CoA and to its team(Zool <3), I must admit that the current state of things can be summed in one word - Pathetic. I have never seen such low numbers ever from CoA and such numbers are often attributed to dying servers, not one with such potential. Some may say that NWN is an Old game with an ever dwindling population - It is agreed to some extent, but you still see many vivid communities still(I.E: Amia, Arelith, EfU,…) so clearly this isnt the case of a dwindling population but rather lack of appeal in the product itself.
To me one definite sign that the team is giving up on ever raising up the number of players is the current effort to downsize the server considerably. I agree that with the current numbers it might be a good idea, but is not also admitting in defeat that numbers will never go up again?
Change and innovation is good for a game of this old age, but I believe that the focus should be IG by doing plot and less on testing and fixing bugs. I see that the team is working very hard to fix bugs and remodel the server, but if you dont find a way to keep your players/consumers the product will be taken off the shelves regardless of how shinny its package is. It is not the level of area built that compels me to play. It is the intrigue and RP. Thats it.In my opinion the team needs to stop for the time being to build, improve and fix the model itself and focus more on the DMing and telling the story. Because this is the forte of a fantasy world - Its story and not its awesomely built castle of evil. The team has began to work on a new story arc, which is a step in the right direction but it also needs to give out hints as part of a PR campaign to draw people in. Players are the blood of the server, not the money that pays to keep the server running. Bored players leave to greener pastures and in at least 60%-70% of the cases they will stay in those greener pastures, even after a new twist is introduced.
Also in my opinion the team needs to have more active DMs. A DM that mostly handles forum moderation or just tossing input on an App, is not my idea of an active DM. When there are only 1-2 active DMs they burn out and fast, which in the long run also damages the server. Even movers and shakers need to have DMs around, so telling that players should take more proactive approach will not do any good.
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I agree with what seter is saying here, I have only really ever seen one consistent DM IG over the past few weeks in my timezone and it wouldnt suprise me if said DM is begining to get burnout. Also from what I am led to believe that there really only is dm activity during the the times that I play (I.E GMT evenings). This will somewhat will lead to a downward spiral as both players and dms kind of need each other to create awesome stories and plots, sure at those times you will get a few people who log on to quest but with nothing to do further then why would people bother staying logged in? sure there is rping with others, but plot pushing becomes very difficult.
The idea of threads like this /topic/11625 seem to work well, it gives everyone an oppertunity to get involved and lets people know when something will be happening when there are so few players/dms about. The downside to this however is that going on some of these events and plots I find it difficult to actually -feel- included on it, sure I am there on the event however I am only there because I feel that its the only oppertunity to get some dm loving and not because it is something that my PC truely cares about, hell I even get lost just entering a plot randomly that has been going on a while and trying to work it all out. So instead I would try and create some plots that could maybe at somepoint get an event on that list above, but players in general do not seem interested these days (Not to fault players but just differences in IG opions/wants/needs allways negate these things) and if I cannot get the interest of the players its hardly worth trying to get a DM to run things for it. It just at times feels I am logging on to quest, attempt to push things but nothing ever really happens.
Most of this everyone allready knows, lack of players/dms leads to a lack of plots and events going on which inturn leads to a stale world where there is only really quests to do. While the above events are needed to help push story I dont believe it does as much to make the setting feel alive for example when there were alot of players the world felt alive because there were interactions practically everywhere you went with PC's so this is what made the setting feel rich and reactive, now in this day and age perhaps smaller events, the possesing of a barkeep when two people are talking near him needs some small task doing might add more flavour and spice things up alittle.
I have noticed a trend on CoA, is that there will be dms around who will get burnout and go on a break. Then just enough dms are then introduced to replace those on hiatus and then the cycle continues so on and so forth. The current DMs who are active must have tons of pressure on them and it makes me wonder if/when those dms will burnout also. There are plenty of players around here who are capable of telling stories and have the correct mindset, I feel if you its left much longer as it is then the server playerbase will only deminish further, especially if what active DMs either do get burnout or for whatever reason find that they cannot play anymore.
We -are- still getting new players, we just need to find a way to make those players stick around which is hard when all there is to do is quest.
Trolling has allways happened on any online community, I think though on CoA it is less harsh and not as frequent as in other online communities and forums. That being said it may only at the moment cause further harm to the server, especially on the forums (I guess it doesnt matter as much on IRC but then again I am probably one of the culprits on there so I will try and cut it out) it doesnt seem to help anything really so it should probably stop… yet I dont think it will.
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Here's what I'd do to get numbers up and motivate people again.
1: More active DMs
Perhaps statements of interest from people interested would aid here but I think a few active dms focused on just being IG and spicing things and helping people with thier goals or just running one shot events would really aid. Sure making a DM kinda costs a player but an active server will attract players back and bring in new ones.2: Easier applications for subraces. Appless factions
Personally I'd scrap apps for factions altogether and let people fully earn in game. While an app may be needed for powerful subraces like half dragons I'd say it shouldn't fully revolve around goals that need the subrace but if it involves people. When there's interesting and active subraces around people tend to log on and flock to them to see what they are up to and aid or oppose them.3: Easier faction promotions
Let players reach the top of factions more easily. Like back in the civil war Lizardclaw was basically running the Phoenix Legion and made an impact. I think more people will want to join factions and numbers will increase if people think they can achieve something.4: Teasers on whats been worked on.
The old V5 teasers got people interested. So more of this may interest people to play and see what happens.
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Personally, I gave up and unless something changes, I doubt I will go back IG Again. The server isnt dying, its DEAD. There is no intrigue, there is no plotting. There is team Hardcastle, led by Verk, who follows plots made by Puffy, during the LATE nights, GTM. The earliest Ive seen an event start in my timezone was 11 PM.
Everything else on the server, is a Group of frustrated players, who quest, explore the new areas Puffy is making. Savn lurks on IRC, as does Nuclear Winter, but both seem stressed.The server needs change, and we players CANNOT do it. Id LOVE to help out, I volunteer as a DM if needed. Id love to run quests, and do my very best to make the server come alive Again. But the server needs new life. and I am not saying new areas, I am saying a new storyline, which will make what remains of our playerbase SO thrilled of logging in, that they spread said joy to all their old nwn friends. Said friends look at the player numbers, active forum, read journals filled with stories, and suddenly we have a thrilling and living server once Again.
But new CONTENT isnt the solution. If no one is eating chocolate, you wont change that by adding more nuts.
WOM is what will save CoA. And unless we get 5 new dms, who will make the server come alive once more, we will never get back our playerbase. More ACTIVE dms, new stories, new metaplots. But new areas is a Waste of time if no one logs in to use them.
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I am not here to speak on behalf of the DM team, having resigned and being clearly inactive.
That being said, I agree with you, the DM Team is going through difficult times with their numbers weakened and stressed out by RL issues. But even if there's only a couple of DMs, they do what they can, be it bug fixing, short IG-encounters or DM quests. If you dont see them In Game, they are busy in RL. But what time they can dedicate they will, for the DM team love this server as much as you do.
Now, I know a number of folk out there willing to volunteer and DM for Arabel. And some of them could even fill those boots in near future. However, its up to the current DMs to make the hard decision, for while it means an extra hand on the DM side, it means one less, awesome hand on the player side, and its why the DM team usually chooses the most recent player guaranteed to be active and involving.
So if you want to help the server thrive, focus on what you as a player can in turn. If you involve, create interesting plots and player factions as mentioned by the OP (Mr. Gentles group, the Black Dragons, Knights of the Road[Mah baby, <3], and an actual list would go on and on…) Rest assured the DM team will do the same and reward you and everyone around you for it. ;)
It all starts from humble beginnings! Be it a patrol, a hunt, a ceremony, a bandit raid or just random PvP- they are the lifeblood of the server, given by the playerbase. Its us, the players, who make the server come alive. The DMs task is to help us do it.
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Am agree with Seter…for the most.... and.. Am not agree with Zool when he said
If no one retires or dies, the whole server would be full of level 13 dragon slayers, wandering about killing a few orcs here and there
I play for long.. and for exemple i can said : i met ..6 players aprox.. in 10 years of play who reach the 13 level.. in the number of thos players .. one stay 13 level 2 days and die in the wild agains some craizy spawns… one retired becose he was tired ..and the rest fight between eachothers.... and there Rav who continue to find fun to RP and have is own path.
You think a 13 level priest of Thorm will let a 13 level evil necromancer do is thing whitout try something for stop hime ?? ..
or if there a 13 level character who start to want to control stuff or have some RP influance.. how many 8 level character will not gone be happy and join them power for fight agains this 13 level ?
This server is anuf hard, the spawns and the quests are anuf dangerous and the pvp is anuf deadly for we can be shure we never gone have full of 13 level characters one this server AND this whitout any DMS intervention.
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Yavamaya was the last good choice for DMship…but yall ran him away.
Thing is, folks is gettin too gaddamn old. The playerbase in general. Maybe in another country we can find DMs, but in America...Ain't nobody got time for dat.
Granted there's some great PnP compaigns being run by the community which involves less of a time commentment for DM's and players alike. Might be time to usher in the new (old) way of playing.
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Who are you to say who was or wasn't the last good choice for a DM B-Rock. That's rather insulting to newer dms.
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Game died when the servers emphasis was less about having fun and more about being a "mover and shaker". That whole Adventure & Intrigue shtick was the worst and pressured players who wanted their characters to progress into this idea that one had to have all the time in the world to basically do the stuff a DM in traditional DnD is meant to do. It became work for a lot of people and created an elitist attitude among the player-base that remains to this day.
The DM team has never really had a sense of congruence in its own plot lines or story arcs, which only adds to the frustrations of players who eventually became by-products of A&I, where suddenly having fun and "Simming" became a taboo and anyone who didn't push a plot or antagonize powerful PCs/NPCs were pretty much classified as bad players.
PVP became so regulated, that legitimate NWN tactics (Backtracking, Wall-stealthing..etc) suddenly became "exploits", all the way to the point where a simple mugging was scrutinized and picked-apart by the DM team to a point where the action itself became worthless because hey, it'll probably be retconned.
Now, I'm not entirely sure if CoA can recoup the losses and repair the damage done by the past few years, the constant change in DM direction and staff, and the volatile inconsistent setting CoA has slowly become. The fact is, if someone still wants to play NWN.. (A 10+ year old game, mind you) your gonna pick a server with the higher player numbers and the more attractive module (in terms of aesthetics and setting). Unfortunately, that isn't CoA.
It's sad, it really is, but I would be looking to carry this community into a new game.
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I would like to throw in my two cents from the peanut gallery, even though I'm no longer active on CoA.
The serverscape has shifted substantially over the years from one where sheer numbers created appeal - where logging in and walking around was practically a guarantee of a good time - to a situation where players and DMs both can hardly afford to be so haphazard; not because of A&I but just the reality of the substantially reduced population (which A&I may well have hastened, but by no means was solely responsible for). I've no desire to be a nay-sayer because I know I would hardly appreciate some old and disillusioned player telling me "the end is coming" when I'm trying to play, but the evolution of CoA is undeniable.
There is no going back.
I have my own notions of CoA's "Golden Age", of noble houses and civil wars, of Thay and Eclestians. BUT (and a big but it is) I can talk to other players not of my generation, who fondly recall the days of Cassiel and his Sheriffs, of C0G's inscrutable antics and the Fivestar Corporation. There are even a few out there who would give anything to go back to the days when PCs roleplayed their Finger-of-Death gnarled hands at each other, tossing Darkness onto Kanthean bears so they couldn't fight back, playing fetch with the high-druid in their spare time and running for their lives whenever "The Hulk" made an appearance.
There is no going back, and frankly I don't see why anyone in their right minds would want to. In almost nine years of playing I have had the privilege of experiencing tragedies fit to bring a tear to anyone's eye, conspiracies wrapped in so many layers that I have been left floundering within them as some shadowy figure slides in the fatal dagger, the shock of being discovered, the slimy gratification of a scheme coming to fruition…
There is no going back, because CoA's greatness comes from what you create with the resources you have. I wholly agree with the notion of critiquing and working out issues restricting players from achieving what they want to achieve, but this mentality of "the good old days" is as poisonous as it is fictitious. It may seem ridiculous to you that someone may come in and petition to have DMs occasionally drop in a big green monster that goes on a killing spree of the player population like a gardener pruning his hedge with a flamethrower every so often, but there will be someone out there who thinks the days of market-sitters are equally ridiculous - or the days of high-level PCs, or even of a faction like the Eclestians regularly burning sorcerer PCs at the stake with near-impunity.
Those days are gone, period. CoA is not a repeatable story-line, it is not a game you can install and play through ever again. Irenicus is never more than a few CDs away, the isle of Khorinis is always within arm's reach, and the haunting overtures of Morrowind never more than a few clicks to find - but the City of Arabel is the only place among these that will keep you guessing time and again, where the mortality of hero and villain is brutally apparent and any new day could see the next Tobin Sett, the next Lisa Amraphen rise up out of the murky darkness to tell a tale that will never be told again.
Consider what you have, not what you had. There are as many stories left in CoA as there are ideas in the imaginations of its players - and maybe someday you will come across someone wishing they had been around during your own golden age, had had the chance to see first-hand what you experienced. Don't let yourself be disillusioned because some old fogey is trying to tell you "you're too late, it's already happened". If it took them so long to separate "it" from all the frustration and heartache it took to pull through in their own time, what qualifies them to make damning comments on the present, let alone the future? Nostalgia should only ever be allowed to bring you back to CoA; by its biased nature, it is unsuitable for any other purpose - let alone as a benchmark, an expectation to place on CoA.
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NWN is a tool - and only a tool - to tell stories.
As someone said in a post above, what needs to be improved is the ability to tell stories. Instead I see a lot of discussion about levels, loot and improving mechanics factions. Which is important but it is not core.
Reducing the number of areas or boosting a certain class will for sure give more flavor to the server. But the thing that needs to be improved is the storytelling of the players.I've left the server before summer and frankly I am not getting any viable ideas for which I am willing to come back. not because my ranger char is not at par with the warrior or wizard but because the last two-three characters I built (or concepts or ideas, call it whatever you like) didn't get the support from the server to give me satisfaction of playing a character and an idea.
After the last "true concept" all I could think was: I need this build to boost this ability, I need to run this quest to get to this level, step 1 armro, step 2 weapon, step 3 etc… this is not a concept and, if I have to choose to play a dmg per sec kind of game nwn is not the engine I am playing with.I'm more than happy to come back but I need some assistance in the storytelling part of creating a character. And I think many of the people I played with and left or are on hiatus, feel the same way.
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2.Personally i do not believe there are many good factions before, as it was in the past. (It's just me though. Maybe that is because i have not recently joined to one. My last ones were: Mr.Gentles group, Order of the Black Dragons, Bhaliir, and Knights of the Road (of how that was called.) All those for me were extremely cool.
A few months back there was a lot of encouragement to join DM factions, which perclude PC faction membership usually.
5. Low DM-Involment in the last weeks, maybe from RL issues. Yet again, as Olouth said, there can be new recruits to the server, that will handle things and free the hands of DM's.
Yeah. The current idea I think has been to have players fill those shoes by leading their stories. Obviously there's a measure of spawning, transitioning, and control that players don't have; if it were just about the story we'd be in a text-based game with no clicking (and spell limitations, and everything else).
6. It would be a good addition, if characters could disguise themselves at some point. That includes (with the help of DM's) to being able to hide the players name, by using an NPC tool. Example: If a group of 3 PC's which are followers of Abbathor want's to ambush another player's group, which holds the great relic of Tyche.
Tricky enough that I disagree. Some sort of detection of the disguise would be needed, but you can't display a different name to different people over the same character. Undetectable disguises just shifts the control/responsibility of non-metagaming to the disguise wearer instead of those being hidden from.
Stuff.
Nah, BS. Games are escape. If you want to get down to the conceptual structure of stories, the same thing has been repeated over and over, and not just here but throughout humanity's history. Saying that doing this repetition is nostalgic and somehow weepy/wrong sounds borderline malicious. I don't see what prevents the establishment of a setting that appeals to people in the way that a past configuration of factions has done. Having "meta-" in front of the current factions is the only real difference between the current factions and some old ones, simply because what they are "about" is less important than what the players in them join to do; currently they have a mercantile one (see: FiveStar, Thond), Thayans (see: …Thayans), magic lovers (see: Mage Guild), magic haters (see: Eclestian), generic "noble" nobles (see: Fezznick). It's different, in that they have different names and exist now, as opposed to then, and have different love/hate for each other.
Anyway I personally don't know why the numbers have dropped. I think maybe my attitude might be at fault, in part, but I'm just one person. Regardless, though, what I see from the long off-topic posts here is a handful of people saying they don't play anymore because their idea of a golden age is past. That's fine, but it only applies to the poster. The "this is why and this is how it is" tone in them seems unnecessary, and again, harmful to morale.
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You say you dont know why our numbers keep dwindling H, yet when the people who left come back and share THEIR reasons for leaving, you may by reading said posts find the reason?
In 2004, we had somewhere between 300-500 players in our community. CoA V3/V4 was built around that premise. That we had a shitload of players. You could have perhaps 10 - 20 movers and shakers at any time, and each one would at least have a handful of minions. The idea of strong factions, player factions, and that Players would tell the story are based upon those numbers. Our server size, with 5-6 Towns and one major city could actually Work, because our peak times had 55 players in it at any given time.
we simply didnt have enough dms to "serve" the entire server.CoA is Down to perhaps 40-50 players now. And every week we lose a few more. 10 percent of what we use to be. You can be stubborn, state that the server is fine. Yet truth be told, and without sounding harmful or destroying morals of the few people left, something needs to change.
My best bet, besides what I have already written, would be to invite older, "departed" players back to dm. Get the storytelling back. Because while new areas and stuff is fine, our dm team have been trying to fix by Building all year, and our playerbase keeps leaving.
We all love this place. We all have fond memories of it. Id give my left nut to see it thrive Again. But sadly, the saving of the server is no longer in the hands of the players. And that is said with all the respect I can possible say it with, recognising the hard Work our current few dms are doing. But fixing the sail in a sinking ship wont keep the Water from pooring it. Only finding the holes and mending them will.
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You say you dont know why our numbers keep dwindling H, yet when the people who left come back and share THEIR reasons for leaving, you may by reading said posts find the reason?
Yes - 3 of 500 people's reasons, stated as "this is why it's failing" instead of "this is why I left" - that's all I said. There is no insight as to why in some, just circular repetitions of finality with the 1/500 perspective as proof, hence my saying it's pointlessly demoralizing to say that.
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@O'louth:
CoA is Down to perhaps 40-50 players now. And every week we lose a few more. 10 percent of what we use to be.
Part of the reason we are losing players is because of the negativity they are finding in IRC and on the forums, in threads such as these.
And your comment about the DMs being stressed: why wouldn't they be when they are trying to improve the server while SOME people around here only want to gripe and complain and tear it down.
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NWN is a tool - and only a tool - to tell stories.
^This. Repeatedly. I do not believe "More DMs" is the answer. You should not need a DM to tell a story for you. Players should tell a story for the server.
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I haven't been online, because it's just a bit boring, and generally a drudge.
I have been critical of those who have said CoA is dying or dead. But I well and truly think it is slowly being starved.
That's just my reason for not wanting to go back in game. My opinion. Don't all jump down my throat at once, if anyone wants to criticise it.
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Part of the reason we are losing players is because of the negativity they are finding in IRC and on the forums, in threads such as these.
And your comment about the DMs being stressed: why wouldn't they be when they are trying to improve the server while SOME people around here only want to gripe and complain and tear it down.
This sums it up for me exactly. ^^
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NWN is a tool - and only a tool - to tell stories.
^This. Repeatedly. I do not believe "More DMs" is the answer. You should not need a DM to tell a story for you. Players should tell a story for the server.
Cannot agree more. Perhaps the server might need a few more DMs, I don't know. I think the one who are on are more than helpful and might have too much to work on with the server improvement and so on to the detriment of the storytelling aid.
Apart from that players can take it up only to a certain point. Then, sooner or later, you will need a DM or other players' interest in what you are doing will slowly die as will your character.